Interesting article on anti inflammatory diet - Thyroid UK
Interesting article on anti inflammatory diet
That article raises more questions than it answers!
* How did they prove that antibodies were lowered, given that antibodies fluctuate anyway?
* What exactly is the benefit of reducing antibodies? You'll still have Hashi's.
* What do they mean by 'tame Hashi's'? It's not a wild animal. How do you tame it, and what good does that do you?
* If they know that goitrogens have nothing to do with Hahi's - which they don't - why did they still cut them out of the diet?
* They then go on to say they don't know how including these veggies would affect lab values. So why do they think they would affect lab values?
* What were the lab values before, after and during?
* The subjects were obviously diagnosed Hashi's, but were they taking thyroid hormone replacement?
* If so, what and how much?
* In what way do they think that goitrogens would affect thyroid hormone replacement?
I could go on, but I won't. Anybody else have any questions to add? 
Nope, think you've about covered it!
Thank you. lol
details from study:
dovepress.com/effects-of-lo...
"Materials and methods
In the current study, we enrolled a total of 180 patients, 84 males and 96 females, aged 30–45 years. All the subjects did not present celiac disease, but Hashimoto’s disease was detected. Moreover, each patient showed others autoimmune symptoms, they are typical Hashimoto’s disease. All the patients were monitored weekly, since it has been shown that this procedure improves the patient’s physician empathy and consequently the achievement of a good result in those that followed the diet.8
Women in menopause were excluded. All the patients had increased levels of antithyroid Abs at baseline. The participants were provided with both written and oral information regarding the study protocol and were ensured that they were free to withdraw from the study at any time. All the subjects gave written informed consent before participation. All procedures conformed to the directives of the Declaration of Helsinki. This study was approved by the Azienda Universitaria Policlinico of the Second University of Naples, prior consultation with the ethics committee of the same Azienda Universitaria Policlinico, which issued the ethics code RDn 1185 of July 27, 2011, subsequently integrated with Decree 922 October 22, 2013.
Serum levels of free triiodothyronine (FT3), free thyroxine (FT4), and thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) were measured using the Benvenga and Trimarchi method.9 All the materials necessary were furnished by DiaSorin (Saluggia, Italy). In all the patients, levels of anti-microsomal, anti-thyroglobulin, and anti-peroxidase Abs were measured as suggested by the manufacturer (DiaSorin).
Body composition was determined by conventional body impedance analysis (BIA) with a single-frequency (50 kHz) bioelectrical impedance analyzer (BIA 101 RJL; Akern Bioresearch, Firenze, Italy), according to the standard tetrapolar technique, with the subject in supine position and the electrodes placed on the dorsal surface of the right foot and ankle and right wrist and hand. The patients were asked to refrain from strenuous exercise and to maintain their usual intake of caffeinated beverages during the 3 days preceding the measurements. After overnight fasting, the patients were asked to empty their bladder before being evaluated. Body composition was then calculated by bioelectrical measurements and anthropometric data using the software provided by the manufacturer, which incorporated validated predictive equations for total body water, fat mass, and fat-free mass. All women were submitted to the BIA between the eighth day and 11th day from the beginning of menstrual cycle and they had not taken contraceptives in the last 3 months. All the participants had been fasting for 12 hours, and they had not consumed drinks for 4 hours; this condition assured an optimal state of hydration for BIA.
A total of 108 patients (44 males and 64 females) (experimental group) started a diet program based on the following proportions: carbohydrates 12%–15%, proteins 50%–60%, and lipids 25%–30%. These patients were instructed to eat large leafy and other types of vegetables and only lean parts of red and white meat, avoiding goitrogenic food. The following items were also excluded from the diet: eggs, legumes, dairy products, bread, pasta, fruits, and rice. This protein-rich diet plan was implemented for 3 weeks, at the end of which bioimpedance tests, bodyweight measurements, and blood tests (TPO Ab, anti-microsomal Ab, thyroglobulin [TG] Ab, and thyroid hormones) were performed. The remaining 72 patients (40 males and 32 females) (control group) followed a simple, low-calorie diet without restrictions regarding the types of food to consume, but adhered to the recommended dietetic allowances, as suggested by the National Research Institute on Food and Nutrition. After 3 weeks, the same tests were performed in this group of patients as those performed in the treatment group."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sounds to me like no one was on Levo , just had raised antibodies , but it's not explicitly stated.
It seems they did indeed cause a reduction in antibodies in the 'restricted food items' group , and not in the 'restricted calorie' group . (there are graphs to show results on each antibody)
So they have proved that 'something' they did resulted in lowered antibodies , but they haven't proved 'what' specifically .. for example there's nothing to prove it's not simply fruit restriction , or egg restriction that lowered the antibodies.
And like you say , we don't have any proof that lowering antibodies has any effect on later progression to overt hypothyroidism or not.
There was no effect on T3/4 TSH levels in either .. yes , they tested T3.
It does contain some interesting graphs of results eg :
OK, thank you for that. But it doesn't really answer any of my questions. lol
Another question comes to mind: Did the antibodies stay lowered, or did they go up again at the end of the study? Did they even bother to find out?
Quite frankly, I can't see the point of this study - or maybe it was just the way it was done...
thank you for that. But it doesn't really answer any of my questions....I can't see the point of this study. * How did they prove that antibodies were lowered, given that antibodies fluctuate anyway?
108 patients (44 males and 64 females) in experimental group .... antibodies lowered
72 patients (40 males and 32 females) in control group ... antibodies raised
* What exactly is the benefit of reducing antibodies? You'll still have Hashi's. What do they mean by 'tame Hashi's ? How do you tame it, and what good does that do you?
We don't know , because no body has ever shown enough interest in the autoimmune process , so i'm pleased they are interested in antibodies. Surely if we are happy to accept that just having 'more' antibodies (over a lab range) means we have hashimoto's then we must be just as happy to accept that 'less' antibodies is a good sign. Even if 'less' antibodies just means that although previous hashi's damage is still there, for some reason the thyroid wasn't attacked as much recently ?
And without more researchers interest we'll never know . So I think this study is interesting and it was clearly done to see if altered diet can affect antibody levels. Surely this is precisely the sort of evidence that may encourage other studies interested in the How and Why of autoimmune destruction.
I agree that they excluded so many things (including goitrogens) that they can't be sure exactly what caused the reduction... but something clearly did .
True ,it's a shame they didn't continue the study for longer, but it sounds like it was pretty expensive to run, with weekly consultations for everyone.
TPO Ab, anti-microsomal Ab
The above is presented as if they are two entirely separate things. The rest of the known universe says things like:
TPO Abs were initially described as antimicrosomal antibodies
An antithyroid microsomal antibody test is also called a thyroid peroxidase test.
The TBOAb test is also sometimes called the Antithyroid Microsomal Antibody Test
That is, the original name, antimicrosomal, was changed when the actual antigen was identified as being thyroid peroxidase (TPO). Not sure who is confused. Me or them?
I don't think English is the first language of whomever wrote it - at least, I hope not! - so that might have something to do with it.
Not sure who is confused. Me or them? I was stumped by that too.... they've obviously measured 'something' and called it a third antibody,, maybe it's the 'same thing' but measured with an old test method for 'antimicrosomal' AND a new test for 'TPOab' .. sort of like total Total4 and free T4 ?
" levels of anti-microsomal, anti-thyroglobulin, and anti-peroxidase Abs were measured as suggested by the manufacturer (DiaSorin)."
Just noticed the text on the graphs of results does say this:
"Figure 4 . The value of autoantibodies in patients following a low-carbohydrate diet therapy.
Notes: The anti-thyroglobulin Ab and anti-thyroperoxidase or anti-microsomal Ab levels of TPO Ab showed a significant difference."
But even if we ignore the ? antimicrosomal results.. the reduction in TPOab /TGab results do seem quite impressive for just 3 weeks.. makes you wonder what they would find if they continued the anti inflammatory diet for longer.
The work was done in 2013 (or before) so it is possible the terms were both in use. But I'd have expected someone who really understood to clarify.
Interesting. All the studies are good and necessary but we really need to see what works for us as individuals. Everyone is different . Gut instinct is sadly lacking these days x
Of late in the Media we seem to have a complete Monsoon of Journalistic Hogwash shed loads of inaccurate articles/Reporting and so on.
Whatever the science I have been on similar diet since beginning of year and feel so much better and have lost weight only issue has been recent increase in sensitivity to various hair and face products -not sure if connected
Proof in the pudding…
Many people benefit from anti inflammatory diet who have various immune diseases.
That’s from my experience , not science.
I do think I’m as well as I am because of various things I’ve done over many years. I used to be considered very odd when I was a vegetarian at 13 ( now 65). Also homeopathy has helped me keep to a low dose of Levo.
All things I’ve dedicated much of my time to , yoga meditation diet are now mainstream …
Sorry wasn’t the best article on subject , I must admit ….. xx
I'm not saying that an anti-inflammatory diet isn't helpful. It surely is. I'm just questioning the methods used in this study and the obsession with lowering antibodies.
The proof of the pudding may be in the eating, but I'm not sure quite what the pudding is supposed to be, here.
it'd be a pretty boring pudding .. no fruit , no eggs , no cream .. might possibly be allowed to stick a finger in the sugar bowl.. but they (again ) they don't specify if sugar is allowed .
I rather doubt it is! Isn't sugar hyper inflammatory? So, a pudding without sugar... steak and kidney pudding? lol
or Black Pudding ?
Indeed. Rather have steak and kidney, though.
Ha ha
Turmeric is a natural anti inflammatory Sri Lankans drink in milk with as much turmeric as you can stand mixed up in a glass.
They have a lot of Natural/Non-synthetic Remedies!
I’m a great fan of tumeric . .
We have a lot to learn from other cultures
Yes and they have all sorts of remedies! Have quite a few Sri Lankans i know.
Tamil charangas(Monkeys) they call others Vengium(not quite spelt right)but means Onion they use as a cuss "Brainless" as onions if peel there is nothing in middle once done! or call them Loser.
I can speak quite a lot of Tamil and there Alphabet is over twice what ours is!
mind can speak many other languages also which is always handy.
Yes, I know that... But what's the connection with this article.
And isn't milk an inflammatory? So, don't the two cancel each other out?
Sorry I was just responding to tumeric . I don’t have it with milk
Ps . I suppose you you don’t already have inflammation but take tumeric with milk no harm done . You will get the many benefits of it.
Well suppose you could have it with your bottle of Gin or Stout?
Heard Chickens and Bulls Milk is ok non-inflammatory!
Glad to see some humour , oscarbravo . Much needed ….. .
Sounds more like sarcasm, to me. I was actually raising a valid point.
Guess we all have different humour. Sarcasm to me is nasty intent. I’m sure this wasn’t meant unkindly. Trouble with texts it’s so easy to misinterpret isn’t it
Friend was over in Thailand with his girlfriend as lives there mostly or did! as has a place there asked her to go to shop and get some Chickens milk! off she trundled and asked shop!
Mind when i was at my friends shop one day there was a group of girls buying some food and asked for bottle of water i said "Straight faced" which type would you like? normal or diet/low calorie water?
Actually, I used to take it in a spoonful of honey, with my CBD oil.
I too eat a similar way... Beginging of the year I was very ill and have re done the exclusion diet, I excluded all common trigger foods for 2 months then re introduced items and found foods that trigger unpleasant side effects in me. I have found much improvement in my gut health and anxiety levels and definitely feel better in general. However I first did this 20 years ago for food intollerance's .. it worked but I find my body changes as the years pass For example I can eat cows cheese now but I can't have cabbage or celeriac. Working out our personal diet hugely benefits our overall health.
I totally agree that our food sensitivities and intolerances can change over the years. Eliminating any food which obviously disagrees with us is a no-brainer, but this can change over time, so a revision to our diet is often needed, even if the foods to be eliminated are seemingly healthy ones, because the prevention of inflammation is the aim. For this reason there is no one-fits-all solution, we have to work out our own.
Thank you as always for your clarification of what I want to say but to spontaneous / thick(! ) to be able to express clearly ….
I’m happy to accept lower antibodies is a good sign .
Past is past . Damage done is hard to reverse .
But it is within our power to change things or at least not make worse x
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