I have subclinical hyperthyroidism and multi-nodular goitre my doctor( actually is a surgeon I have been forced to see ) because I refused surgery she has put me on half a tab of 5mg Carbimazole but it makes me feel tired so I cut it in half again to a quarter taken twice a day and it still makes me feel tired.
I am looking to self treat with a blend of Bugleweed, Motherwort, Scullcap, Hawthorn, Lemon Balm, but I have read that Bugleweed can increase the size of the goitre , so I am a bit reluctant to experiment with out asking if anyone has tried it with success or not?
Any advise would be appreciated
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Lorlei
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subclinical hyperthyroidism is a mild case they tell me,have had antibodies tested I don't have antibodies ,can't find the results except for the TSI ...<0.10 range... <0.55
So, when were those labs done? Were you taking carbimazole at the time?
If your TSI antibodis were negative, you don't have Graves, and there is nothing remotely hyper about those labs. So, one has to question whether you're on the right treatment.
Have you had Hashi's antibodies tested: TPO and Tg antibodies?
The labs were done about a week ago and I wasn't on any medication at all,the doc put me on carbimazole because she wants to raise the TSH.
TPO and TG antibodies were negative,
Problem is I do get hyper symptoms that come and go so it might be a good idea to raise the TSH but don't like the fatigue the carbimazole causes that's why I'm looking at the herbal treatment but have read it could possibly increase goitre,I already have an enlarged thyroid with nodules, don't want to make things worse.
and all the discussions that came about from that.
From the information you've posted today and previously there is no evidence that you are hyperthyroid, as has been mentioned in other replies you've received. I think you really need a new doctor because the one you have is not doing you any favours.
Thanks humanbean ,over several years I have seen endocrinologists,several doctors regularly,had FNA & RAI twice and now surgeon/Edno , they all tell me I have subclinical hyperthyroidism that means it's not full blown hyperthyroidism but on the edge and I do have symptoms that come and go,
heart palpitations,jitters,insomnia,irritability,hunger,crazy eyes etc etc so yes though the blood work isn't as bad as it could be the symptoms are no fun and I would rather do something about than not.
Back to my original question has anyone tried herbal treatment ?
greygoose is so right Lorlei………‘specialists’ said I had Graves due to clinical signs (‘hyper’ like symptoms of palpitations, tremor, fast heart rate plus thyroid eye disease which was confirmed by a TED specialist ophthalmologist). However I followed forum advice to question everything and test privately for antibodies. I actually have Hashimotos, I’m under active but with TED. Some clinicians, even eminent ones, seem to jump to conclusions and just look at current clinical signs instead of testing and retesting. I’m so thankful to this forum for helping me see that!
It's not about the TSH - it's never about the TSH. The TSH doesn't make you feel anything, it doesn't cause symptoms. And, carbi is not about raising the TSH, it reduces the amount of thyroid hormone made by the thyroid. Your TSH is lowish - really not that low - because your FT3 is top of the range. Reduce your FT3 and the TSH will rise. But, that won't make you feel better. Reducing your FT3 could make you feel a whole lot worse.
I agree with humanbean , you should reread your post of three months ago, where everyone is telling you you're more likely to be hypo than hyper - and the symptoms prove nothing - so carbi really is not the right treatment for you.
Where did you get that list of herbs from? And what exactly are they supposed to do?
Now I'm really confused ,if carbi reduces the amount of thyroid hormone then it would reduce FT3 and raise TSH, would it not?
That's what I just said. But, given that raising your TSH would not help you in the slightest, do you really think that you need to reduce your T3? That could make you feel worse.
Over the years not one of the docs or endos ever thought I might be hypo with those blood test results,I don't understand why you think I am hypo?
I didn't say you were hypo, I said you were more likely to be hypo than hyper. Because there's absolutely no way you are hyper. If you were hyper, both your T4 and T3 would be well over-range, and your TSH suppressed. Your TSH is not suppressed, just slightly below range, your FT3 is just slightly above range, and your FT4 is too low - which suggests hypo.
Just because no doctor ever suggested you were hypo doesn't mean you couldn't be. Very few doctors know anything about thyroid, and they only look at the TSH.
But, the TSH is not a thyroid hormone, it's a pituitary hormone which sends a message to the thyroid to make more thyroid hormone. So, TSH accuracy depends on the efficiency of the pituitary, and that's something doctors just don't seem able to understand.
You say 'over the years...' How many years? And what's been going on during these years? Has your TSH always been low? Your FT3 high and FT4 too low? How have things evolved?
But if I am more hypo than hyper then should I be supplementing thyroid ? when my T3 are over range?
No, you don't need thyroid hormone replacement at this point. As you say, your FT3 is high. But, you don't need the carbi, either - IMHO. And, you do need to keep an eye on your levels to see if things change. One possible scenario is that your pituitary is having problems and is not able to produce enough TSH for some reason (Central Hypo) and that your thyroid is reacting by producing more T3 than T4. But only time will tell.
That blend of herbs is from a compounding pharmacy specifically for the management of Hyperactive Thyroid Gland
But, you don't have a hyperactive thyroid gland, so that doesn't sound like a very good idea.
I just dug up the first tests done by an endo in the year 2006 and I have seen many experts since and have 15 years of various test results not just the TSH,FT3 FT4, I think the pituitary was tested years ago and they all said, as you did, "wait and see" and "time will tell"
This is how it has been all these years, slight fluctuations and I am still waiting for time to tell me something...,anything.
Well, apart from the low TSH, your results show no indication of hyperthyroidism. And, as your TSH has always been low, there's no guarantee that taking carbi will raise it - even if raising it were a desirable thing. Your Frees have been pretty low at times, but the TSH remained low. I really think the solution lies with the pituitary.
How did they test the pituitary? Do you have any results from those tests? Did you have any sort of scan?
I can't remember how the pituitary was tested ,it must have been over 10 years ago but I have a 15 year pile of test results to sift through to find it.
I have had many ultra-sound scans but they are all clear.
Will do some more digging tomorrow see if I can find it,
At this moment with those results I agree with endo’s diagnosis of subclinical-hyperthyroidism.
ThyroidUK who run this forum state the results of subclinical-hyperthyroidism would present as low TSH with normal FT4 & FT3, although FT3 maybe high & climbing.
If you had subclinical-hypothyroidism your thyroid hormones could present as similar as the body sometimes starts converting more T4 to T3 in an effort to retain full bodily function but your TSH would be climbing as the pituitary works harder to encourage further thyroid hormone.
Thyroid antibodies fluctuate so one test isn’t conclusive in eliminating Graves or Hashi & further progression usually gives an indication of final diagnosis but other considerations could include a toxic multi nodular goitre, toxic adenoma or some other issue with the pituitary gland as opposed to the thyroid.
If this were me I wouldn’t consider taking any herbs, adaptogens or other that altered the function of the HPT-axis until reasons for the dysfunction are more clear.
Are you taking any other meds apart from carbimazole?
Thank you, every expert I have seen over the last 15 years say subclinical hyper and antibodies have been tested many times,I think there may have been antibodies there once or twice only but mostly negative .
The ultra- sound & FNA indicate there are no problems with the nodules they are just large and I am not on any medication at all, just started carbimazole a few days ago.
I am truly getting more and more lost as to what to do
The results you sent to greygoose show a longstanding low TSH which would indicate a pituitary problem. If a toxic nodule, etc have definitely been eliminated it could be a secondary condition caused by adrenal dysfunction, etc. Have you had adrenal function tested? Have you had sex hormones tested?
The other issue is getting hyper symptoms that come & go, indicating elevated antibodies at work ( if toxic nodule, etc have definitely been eliminated.)
Positive antibodies even just 'there once or twice' will give you a diagnosis of Hashi or Graves. You advised you have been tested for TPOAb & TGAb (Hashi) and TSI (Graves).
Have you also had TRAb’s tested? These are more Graves antibodies that come in two varieties, TSAb (stimulating that will make you hyper) TBAb (blocking that causes hypo symtoms). If you have more than one type they can cancel each other out on paper or give warped readings such as a low TSH with normal thyroid hormone levels. This could make you extremely symptomatic.
Because thyroid hormones haven't been consistently high I don't think you need carimazole at this moment either, unless they were to suddenly shoot up.
Hi. I have tried some of the herbs u r talking about. Took them for 6 months roughly. They did not work for me sadly. I am a very clear case of Graves. I can’t help more than that. My antibodies are sky high so I don’t think anything herbally is going to help. Gluten free and reduce stress was my strategy.
Supplementing with iodine is difficult & controversial. Your body doesn't utilise iodine directly and processing it causes an oxidative reaction. Without adequate selenium to mop up it causes the oxidative stress that Isabella Wentz claims sets off an immunity shift inciting thyroid antibodies.
lodine induced thyroid dysfunction can subclinical, overt and transient or permanent. Did you supplement a lot of iodine and for how long?
The ACTH & prolactin are pituitary hormones. Prolactin correlates with TSH in both hyper & hypothyroidism & so is in line as slightly low. Have you had TRH tested? This is the hypothalamus hormone also working with TSH & so prolactin.
Antibodies for 2005 is 16 years ago! And those are testing for Hashi. You advised further up of having TSI tested but have you ever had TRAb’s tested? Also which ones were 'there once or twice'?
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