Is it hashimotos?

[fiftyone]

Many years ago I was diagnosed as having an underactive thyroid. More recently I have read that hashimotos is often the cause. However, no doctor has ever mentioned this to me. How do I know if I have an underactive thyroid or Hashimotos? These two conditions are, I take it, very different, even if the treatment may be the same.

[RedApple Administrator]

fiftyone, Autoimmune thyroid disease is confirmed by positive antibody testing. The main Thyroid UK website has an article about it. thyroiduk.org/if-you-are-hy...

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Getting FULL Thyroid (And vitamin) testing recommended

How much levothyroxine are you currently taking

Do you always get same brand of levothyroxine at each prescription

TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested.

Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 at least annually

What vitamin supplements are you currently taking

Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially if you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) diagnosed by raised Thyroid antibodies

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .

Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test. (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)

Is this how you do your tests?

Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or thyroid antibodies or all relevant vitamins

List of private testing options

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

Medichecks Thyroid plus antibodies and vitamins

medichecks.com/products/adv...

Thriva Thyroid plus antibodies and vitamins By DIY fingerpick test

thriva.co/tests/thyroid-test

Thriva also offer just vitamin testing

Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes antibodies, cortisol and vitamins by DIY fingerprick test

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

[Denisemoye]

Yes, absolutely. Almost all cases of hypothyroidism are in fact caused by Hashimotos which is an auto immune condition. Hashmotos (which means the existence of thyroid antibodies), is attacking your thyroid. Unfortunately most gp’s currently see no reason to even check for the antibodies and no reason to address them when in face if they did, your thyroid would go back to normal. There are many underlying causes for Hashimotos to have been triggered and so you might find out you have some gut issues, some blood sugar/insulin resistance issues or a viral infection/fungal infection but something would have triggered it. Though it’s commonly a hereditary auto immune condition, it only occurs when conditions have triggered it so you don’t have to live with it and you can cure it, regardless of what gp’s currently think. Also, levothyroxine alone is not the correct treatment, just part of what your body needs when your thyroid isn’t working properly which is why most people still feel rubbish even though your taking the medication. Amazon have a thyroid supplement which has 16k reviews and I’ve been taking this instead for 2 years and I’m currently focusing on my thyroid antibodies.

[fiftyone in reply to Denisemoye]

thank you. that's very interesting. I do have gut issues and type2 diabetes (inherited). You say levothyroxine alone is not the answer. could you expand a bit on this.

[Denisemoye in reply to fiftyone]

Ah, you say inherited….nothing is ‘inherited’ just a pre-disposition is passed on. So for me, the gut and the type 2 diabetes will be linked….sort those, that will sort the hashimotos and then your thyroid will magically be ‘cured’. I’ve spent the last few years studying natural medicine (trying to cure myself) and you would not believe how much of the ‘incurable’ illnesses/diseases are completely curable. I’m guessing this all started as you approached menopausal age which again is normal as our hormones have a massive effect on the mechanics of our ‘machine’. One thing goes out of kilter and it effects it all. What gut issues are you having? And have you tried to go on a low gi diet for the diabetes?

[fiftyone in reply to Denisemoye]

was diagnosed with diabetes 15 years ago, but guess I had it before then. The gut issue has been diagnosed as gastritis - high stomach acidity. Had this for about 7 years. I take two omeprazole daily. I do watch my carbs - avoid high GI foods and take plenty of exercise. My diabetes is well under control but not down to normal. Take metformin daily. Have had an 'underactive' thryroid for 36 years. Take a very high level of levo. I take B vitamins and vitamin D. Anything different you can suggest would be of interest. Cheers

[Denisemoye in reply to fiftyone]

Are you sure it’s high stomach acid? And not low stomach acid? Commonly misdiagnosed. I started with bad acid reflux, assumed it was high stomach acid and found that actually, high stomach acid is very rare and in most cases it’s low stomach acid. Due to this, I got candida, sibo and became gluten and dairy intolerant. Mine all started from a very stressful period of time and I’d also had Epstein Barr about 6 years prior which about 90% of the population have and don’t realise. It stays in your body forever (though I’ve found you can eradicate it). It is a viral infection of the herpes virus (similar to cold sores) and will reactivate anytime your body is in a weakened state. You can track these things back. What happened just before the under-active thyroid diagnosis? Anything stand out? Any illnesses, stressful events? This can be picked apart and you don’t have to continue down this road. I would recommend a good naturopath. X

[fiftyone in reply to Denisemoye]

Well, the omeprazole stops acid being produced. I have great gnawing stomach pain without it. Never have acid reflux. So I presume too much acid is the problem. Birth of my daughter was the only major life event before I started to feel exhausted. It took the doctors 4 years to diagnose thyroid problems and prescribe levo. I like the idea of more natural approaches.

[Denisemoye in reply to fiftyone]

Yeah, I had that gnawing pain too. Childbirth commonly knocks us for six so that doesn’t surprise me. Low stomach acid, diabetes and under-active thyroid are all linked. I would question the high stomach acid diagnosis. I’m not saying it’s not that but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was in fact low stomach acid. Look online, they’re commonly misdiagnosed. What actual testing did you have for it? Have you had any issues with bloating, food intolerances? Also, are you having any rheumatoid arthritis symptoms?

[fiftyone in reply to Denisemoye]

I had a camera stomach examination. Waiting now for a further hospital investigation, under anaesthetic. If it's low stomach acid, why would the omeprazole stop the problem? No bloating at all -ever. I do suspect I have food intolerances - I keep away from high carb foods and cheese. So this cuts out bread, rice, pasta, pastry and sugar-laden foods. Recently cut out all fruit except blueberries and strawberries.This has brought my blood sugar down. I do have arthritis in my fingers, but assume it is osteoarthritis.Take natural sulphur (MSM) to relieve the pain. Have never discussed this with my doctor. I am always interested in more natural ways of dealing with health problems.

[Denisemoye in reply to fiftyone]

Apparently the symptoms for low and high stomach acid are very similar but in most cases, it’s low stomach acid and doctors just naturally prescribe medication to reduce stomach acid. I think it helps with the symptoms but if it is low stomach acid, it will cause more problems further down the line. The fact you have hashimotos, type 2 diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis and food intolerances, leads me to believe it’s low stomach. I’ve addressed my gut issues and low stomach acid and my rheumatoid arthritis has vanished. I’m currently having some insulin resistance issues and now looking at that which I hope addresses the thyroid antibodies. It’s a very very complicated area and so many interrelated processes and so if you’re keen on a natural approach, I’d highly recommend you going to see a naturopath. They’re not all equal so get a recommendation. I couldn’t eat gluten or dairy and now I can. I’ve got rid of the sibo and candida and I’m feeling pretty good and losing weight. I’m almost there and it’s been a long road but i’ve learned so much.

[fiftyone in reply to Denisemoye]

thank you very much for all the info. I am glad to hear that you are so much better. It is a good example of taking one's health into one's own hands and not relying on traditional doctors/medication. Kind regard Jule

[Denisemoye]

Medichecks in the uk do a full panel thyroid test including antibodies. Worth having it done.

[tattybogle]

"How do I know if I have an underactive thyroid or Hashimotos? These two conditions are, I take it, very different, ..."

Underactive thyroid... well, the thing is thyroids don't just become underactive for no reason. They don't just get 'old and tired' and pack in producing T4/3 efficiently.

The most common cause for thyroid becoming underactive is because part of the thyroid tissue has been damaged by Autoimmune thyroid disease , so that part can't produce as much T4/3 as it did when it was undamaged.

There are other causes for hypothyroidism:-

- Some cases are temporary... like 'de quervains thyroiditis', and 'post partum thyroiditis' can be temporary in some people.

-Some cases are caused by taking certain drugs known to cause problems with thyroid..

-Some cases are caused by physical damage to, or surgical removal of some or all of the thyroid gland.

If the cause is Autoimmune (the body's own immune system damaging the thyroid), then the damaged thyroid tissue takes on a distinctive 'patchy' appearance which can be seen on a scan.

Usually (but not always) the person will have raised levels of antibodies TPOab (thyroid peroxidase antibodies). if TPOab are not raised then a scan would confirm whether the cause of the damage was Autoimmune.

Autoimmune Hypothyroid is often called Hashimoto's Disease, but technically that just refers to cases where a goitre develops... cases of autoimmune hypothyroid which do not develop a goitre are called Ord's Disease.

(Ord's and Hashimoto's are usually referred to as just "Hashimoto's" on the internet, and "Autoimmune Hypothyroid" in the GP's office... everyone has forgotten about poor old Mr Ord. )

Once a piece of thyroid tissue is damaged by the immune system it stays damaged.

Autoimmune thyroid damage is a slow ongoing process that happens in fit's and starts.

The TPOab are the result of the damage... not the cause of the damage.

Finding reduced levels of TPOab over time may mean less damage is currently taking place.

Or it may mean there is less healthy thyroid tissue left to be damaged.... But it doesn't mean that the thyroid tissue that has already been damaged has recovered.. it stays damaged and stays unable to produce as much T4/3 as it could when it was healthy.

Practically, the difference between 'autoimmune' and 'other' causes of hypothyroidism is that random periods of raised levels of T4 can be expected , followed by lower levels of T4 than before.

This can look like mild hyperthyroidism , but it isn't true hyperthyroid.

The reason is .... when some thyroid tissue is damaged, that part releases all it's T4 into the blood all in one go . So fT4 goes up , and slowly goes down as it gets used up.

(as opposed to 'true' Hyperthyroid where the thyroid is continually overproducing T4/3 due to TRab (Thyroid stimulating hormone Receptor antibodies) acting in the same way as TSH (thyroid Stimulating Hormone)

You can pretty much guarantee that if you do not have one of the other known causes of hypothyroid, your cause is probably Autoimmune, and even of you do not find raised TPOab at the time you are looking for them , the characteristic Hashimoto's pattern of damage will be seen on a scan.

This is my current understanding from reading research on 'autoimmune' hypothyroidism.

Some people think that 'trying' to reduce their antibodies is a good thing.. i don't know if it works that way... my antibodies went down considerably all by themselves over a few years.. i suspect that is just what happens anyway ,whether you are 'trying' and do anything about them or not.