I need your comments and personal experiences on something new I have been experiencing.
I have been though a course of thyroiditis in the past year, with both symptoms of hyper and hypo. Lately I have been fairly fine (fine being that I can manage through the day). But I now experience something new.
Every time I eat something, around one hour after the meal, I get palpitations and dizzyness. This goes on around 4-5 hours after each meal. After this I am pretty fine, but eventually I have to eat again.
This happens with almost all meals and I haven't noticed any particular foods that bother me (although the severity of my symptoms are different depending on the meal. For example i think that if I eat any bread I am feeling the worst. If I eat some fruit only I get minimal symptoms).
Can this be caused by the thyroid? Can it be something else, concerning my digestion, stomach and/or gut? And if so, are there any particular tests I can run or any doctor special to this? Has anyone experienced any of this?
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roukounasGK
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Kalimera ! Often with Hashimoto's or low thyroid - it is common to suffer with Low stomach acid. Good acid levels are needed to break down foods for good digestion. When acid is low - food can remain in the stomach longer and begin to ferment - causing indigestion and other discomfort.
Taking Apple Cider Vinegar with the Mother ( not always easy to find in Greece I found ) in water before meals can be helpful . Also more lemons ! I miss the bowl of lemons served with meals ! If you are suffering - a teaspoon of bi-carbonate in warm water can help to relieve symptoms.
I read your T3 is low in range - so this could be a contributing factor too as T3 drives the metabolism in every cell in the body.
I used to get this a lot, palpitations and what I would describe as a fluttering heart. Then I went gluten free and things cleared up .....along with other symptoms I was feeling too.
Hey thanks for the tip. It seems that everyone is mentioning gluten. So I have tried reducing it, since as I mentioned my sumptoms are the worst when I eat bread which contains gluten.
But since I am new to this I have some thoughts and since you have already cut off gluten I hope you help me with your feedback:
1. I get symptoms whatever I eat. Doesn't this mean that this isn't a gluten thing? I would assume that if it was a gluten intolerance, I would only have it when I eat gluten.
2. As I said my symptoms are the worst when I eat bread. However when I eat pasta (which also contains gluten) I don't have so severe symptoms. If it was a gluten thing wouldn't I feel same sh*t as when I eat bread?
3. As mentioned, I have reduced gluten for about 2 weeks, though not cut it out completely. If it was a gluten issue, shouldn't I be feeling better?
Completely Gluten Free is the only way. I went down the route of using Gluten Free Products but they are usually loaded with sugar and they caused me other problems. Look at Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) for recipes using Almond and Coconut flours.
hi I went through this on two occasions, and both times different causes!
Firstly your sugar may be getting too high, people of a certain age do have this kind of problem; buy a little kit and check it before meals and 2 hours afterwards. If it's high seek help from you doctor asap. or reduce the amount of sugar in your meals. It takes a while to get the
Plus, it could be that your thyroid meds are not right, get them sorted out. Marz said that your t3 was a little low, that would make everything all wrong.
Thanks a lot! I will keep an eye on my sugar levels.
Regarding the thyroid meds, indeed I have low FT3. But my TSH is also pretty low. So my Endo didn't increase the dose, but in fact proposed that I reduced it. So there's not much to do there.
Very wrong to look at TSH levels once on medication. The most important results are the T4 & T3. The Pituitary gland stops secreting TSH when it senses adequate T4 in the blood. It would seem you have a conversion issue from T4 into the ACTIVE T3.
I pretty much agree with you. The thing is what can I do about the conversion? Is there a deficiency that may cause this and thus supplementing mat resolve it? Should I increase my dose and the increase may "boost" my system? What's your opinion fellow Greek (I saw that you are living in Crete now. Lucky you!)
It is a bummer you left. But at least you were there along time so you must have had a great time and helped yourself calm down. I went there the previous week and calmed a lot with what's going on with my health.
My B12 is 312 on a range of 177- 770.
My folate is 6,75 on a range of 3,9 - 26,8.
Ferretin I have not checked it for a long time.
Vitamin D, though I have some time to measure it, I am always very low. The most I have ever had was around 20, on a range of 30-100 (when supplementing). Most of the time I am around 13.
Many health conditions including some cancers can be linked to low VitD. Your level would be better at 60++. B12 at 500 and Folate and Ferritin mid-range. You have a way to go .... this could be why conversion is a problem and why T3 is low.
It might be worth looking into histamine intolerance. Following a low histamine diet for a few days might give you a clue as to whether this could be a factor. Histamine builds up on food as it ages so buying and cooking everything fresh, avoiding leftovers and eating low histamine foods all help. I get very unwell with rapid heartbeat and migraine if I’m not careful about what I eat. Some nutritionists specialise in HIT and can suggest tests to identify underlying causes and supplements to help.
Thanks a lot for your feedback! Indeed my ft3 is on the low side. But my TSH is low as well. So my Endo actually proposed that I decreased dose from 1,12 to 1 mcg. I tried it and needless to say, I was way worse than before. So when I started fainting, I increased my meds again to 1,12 mcg. I have not yet had a test with this dose now but most probably I will be the same as in my previous post, since it is the exact same dose with the exact weight.
But I am afraid to increase them even more to bring up my ft3. If my TSH is now 0,5 and if my dose is increased wouldn't this bring it way down?
My feretin, B12 and folate was measured around April and they were as they always were, to a normal level.
I last tested my vitamin D on December, and I know I am very low (around 20 on a range of 30-100) but since I am in a sunny place I try to get as much sun as possible now that it's summer and will test it on my next appointment.
In summary, patients on long-term T4 with either an increased serum TSH (>4 mU/liter) or a suppressed TSH (<0.03 mU/liter) have an increased risk of cardiovascular disease, dysrhythmias, and fractures when compared with patients with a TSH within the laboratory reference range. Patients with a low, but not suppressed, TSH (0.04–0.4 mU/liter) had no increased risk of these outcomes in this study.
The most important results are Ft3, followed by Ft4, not TSH
Low vitamin levels tend to lower TSH
Vitamin D needs to be at least around 40ng/ml
Extremely common to need to supplement continuously to maintain optimal vitamin D ...even if living in a sunny climate
Vitamin D deficiency is frequent in Hashimoto's thyroiditis and treatment of patients with this condition with Vitamin D may slow down the course of development of hypothyroidism and also decrease cardiovascular risks in these patients. Vitamin D measurement and replacement may be critical in these patients.
Evidence of a link between increased level of antithyroid antibodies in hypothyroid patients with HT and 25OHD3 deficiency may suggest that this group is particularly prone to the vitamin D deficiency and can benefit from its alignment.
What exactly were folate, B12 and ferritin results and ranges
For ferretin I was wrong earlier it seems I haven't done the test for a long time. Will do so on my next appointment.
For vitamin D, it seems that my system did not tolerate well the supplements so I decided to try to raise it as much as possible naturally. Of course, if my labs get below the range again on my appointment next month I will definitely try again.
Regarding the dose, I know that in the past 10 years since I was first diagnosed, I was on a dose of 1,25 and was feeling great. So this must be my normal dose (same weight). Once my Endo suggested that I reduced it, since "I was very stable" all hell broke loose. But when I was on 1,25, my TSH was around 1,8. Now I am on 1,12 and tsh is 0,5. So I am reluctant to increase the dose again.
But anyway, based on your opinion, you think that increasing the dose to 1,25 again may benefit me even though my labs are different than before?
B12 and folate are rather low, you might benefit from taking Good quality daily vitamin B complex. Look for vitamin B complex with folate in, not cheaper folic acid
Igennus Super B is good quality and cheap vitamin B complex. Contains folate. Full dose is two tablets per day. Many/most people may only need one tablet per day. Certainly only start on one per day (or even half tablet per day for first couple of weeks)
Or Thorne Basic B or jarrow B-right are other options that contain folate, but both are large capsules
If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before any blood tests, as biotin can falsely affect test results
Regarding vitamin D, it seems like my symptoms were exaggerated. So at the time I had hyper symptoms. While I was taking the D3 supplements I had huge trembling, anxiety, sweating, palpitations etc. When I stopped it seemed like the symptoms were reduced.
But again I had many issues with thyroid the last year so I am not sure this will be the case if I supplement now. Just afraid of it. If my labs are still low, I will try once more.
But thanks for the magnesium part, I have never taken magnesium. I will be sure to try it!
There's definitely a connection between the stomach and heart. I get super bad palpations at times.... so many PVC's that my cardiologist wanted to put me on medication... but I was determined to find the root, so made lifestyle changes to control them instead. I found that the thing that gets them going the very most is any kind of eating or drinking... even a glass of water will set them off. I did some reading and found a lot of people experience the same palpations when eating and attribute it to stimulation of the vagus nerve which runs through the stomach. Mine happen within minutes after eating then they usually settle back down about 15 minutes later. I also have stomach acid issues, and believe that's a factor too. Certain food and drinks like orange juice for example, will cause the palpations to become so bad that it takes weeks to control them. What helps me, (and from what I read a lot of other people as well) is Magnesium. Rolaids contain magnesium, and seem to help me a lot so I don't know whether it's because of the magnesium or whether it's the fact that they settle the stomach. I also have thyroid issues, but not bad so don't know if or how that factors in. But yes, I can confirm that a lot of people experience what's happening to you.
Hi there - the stomach and the heart are linked as you say - but also cortisol rushes to the digestive system after eating but only for a few minutes otherwise we would be in trouble - how do I know this - I have adrenal insufficiency and before a meal my joints are OK when I have just eaten and get up to take my plate out I can hardly walk. My husband - concerned always used to say are you OK and now he says I know cortisol on a walk about.
I had the same issues you described and finally my doctor told I'm have mild anemia and to start supplementing with Iron and Vitamin C and I have not had anymore issues since .... holding my breath!
Check your blood sugars - buy a kit. I get post-prandial hypoglycaemia (low blood sugar after eating) & sometimes feel very faint/palpitations. I also avoid coffee as that can give me an arrhythmia. Palpitations can also be caused by electrolyte imbalances, so you would need a blood test during your episodes to check these.
Thank you for your tip! Although my symptoms start around 1 hour after I first eat and every blood test is supposed to be taken on an empty stomach. So it's difficult to test when I get the symptoms. But I will check my post meal blood sugar and try to get as much electrolytes as possible and see how it goes!
Strictly gluten free diet helps or is essential for high percentage of Hashimoto’s patients
Poor gut function can lead leaky gut (literally holes in gut wall) this can cause food intolerances. Most common by far is gluten. Dairy is second most common.
According to Izabella Wentz the Thyroid Pharmacist approx 5% with Hashimoto's are coeliac, but over 80% find gluten free diet helps, sometimes significantly. Either due to direct gluten intolerance (no test available) or due to leaky gut and gluten causing molecular mimicry (see Amy Myers link)
Changing to a strictly gluten free diet may help reduce symptoms, help gut heal and slowly lower TPO antibodies
While still eating high gluten diet ask your doctor for coeliac blood test first or buy test online for under £20, just to rule it out first
The predominance of Hashimoto thyroiditis represents an interesting finding, since it has been indirectly confirmed by an Italian study, showing that autoimmune thyroid disease is a risk factor for the evolution towards NCGS in a group of patients with minimal duodenal inflammation. On these bases, an autoimmune stigma in NCGS is strongly supported
In summary, whereas it is not yet clear whether a gluten free diet can prevent autoimmune diseases, it is worth mentioning that HT patients with or without CD benefit from a diet low in gluten as far as the progression and the potential disease complications are concerned
Despite the fact that 5-10% of patients have Celiac disease, in my experience and in the experience of many other physicians, at least 80% + of patients with Hashimoto's who go gluten-free notice a reduction in their symptoms almost immediately.
Only add one supplement or make one change at a time and wait at least ten days to assess any changes
Take a look at the Specific Carbohydrate Diet as a way to identify problem foods. Gluten can cause problems up to two weeks after ingestion so what you eat today may not show up until next week or the week after. If you are eating some occasionally your body is never free from it. Good luck
Hi Christina, I just searched info about the SCD and it doesn't seem to be validated medically although I noted the originating doctor's results of the trial of 10 paediatric patients.
Hi roukounasGK, I'm diagnosed with Hashimoto recently and experiencing the exact same thing as you did. I'm wondering if the symptoms actually goes away by now? I'm still looking for the root causes and I'm guessing it might have something to do with my diet. Most likely to be cheese, nuts or the coffee that I'm taking.
Hello Karen,There is not much certain things to tell you I am afraid.
I feel a lot better now though I still have a lot of issues. The palpitations are still there but have subsided a lot and I only notice them on specific times, when they greatly increase. I also had various food sensitivities, for example gluten. I think that my symptoms were from undermedication. I gradually increased my dose and they gradually reduced. Another thing to take into consideration is that my labs were inconsistent with how I felt. So even though the endos told me that I was normal and everything was in my head, I kept increasing my dose. The labs were erratic (for example I had noumerous cases were I increased my dose, and found that my ft3 and ft4 were reduced and tsh increased). I would suggest sticking with a dose that should meet your needs for at least 3 months, regardless of the 6 weeks mentioned.
As my symptoms subsided, so did my food sensitivities. I can now eat bread for example without feeling dreadful.
In terms of supplements I didn't use much. Only selenium and zinc which I found was helpful to calm the palpitations at night and have some sleep. I used them every night at first (since I couldn't sleep even one night more than 3 hours) and afterwards only when I felt restless with palpitations waking me up every 5 minutes.
In short, I can't tell you for sure since I am still struggling with it. But my experience so far is that it becomes better in (a loooong) time with the proper dose of medication. And during this period, in order to be able to function as best as possible, some supplements help.
I hope it is more easy and quick for you Karen! And If any of the above hits a nerve and want more details let me know!
Can't say I can notice such a connection since I am a man and have no menstruation! 🙂But I think it's very normal since our issues are hormonal in nature so it's expected to have such issues on the period of hormonal fluctuations.
Regarding the dose indeed, I noticed that I increase my dose, after 6 weeks I have the regular labs, they are changed, but my symptoms remain and start changing some weeks after this.
Thank you very much for your reply! It's very helpful of you as many doctors would just read straight off my labs and tell me that all in my head since the number are normal. I hope we get better in time! Again thanks for your reply and I will try to stick to right amount of dosage that makes me feel better!
Regarding the tests there was one time where I increased my dose, I had my blood drawn 7 weeks after and my TSH was 0,1. of course my endo suggested that I reduce my dose. But I was still feeling like crap so I stayed on this dose regardless and found after another 7 weeks that my TSH gone to 2,9 and needed another increase instead of the decrease he suggested. Not sure why this happened though.
Regarding the rest, don't mention it, thats what this forum is about, sharing experiences on our common issues in case it helps someone else or at worst offer some hope!
The palpitations that occur after eating may also be related to blood sugar, as others have told you.
You have Hashimoto and autoimmune diseases tend to be associated with other autoimmune diseases.
If you have relatives who have diabetes, you should pay even more attention to your blood sugar!
My palpitations started a year after I started treatment with levo. I had periods when I had fewer but I never got rid of them.
I started to think I had intolerance to levo rather than being on an insufficient dose.
I recently changed the pill to a liquid form (Accu-thyrox from Greece and added a little t3. I still have it, in some days it seems like there were more than usual but I haven't lost hope.
Thank you for your info!I do have my mom with diabetes. And I do pay attention to my blood sugar (with the home test) but not with the HbA1c test. My results never were something of significance though. The worst value I got was 94 on a scale of 70-100, which I think is high enough to be careful but not to explain such symptoms. And most of the times I am around 85.
Regarding the liquid levo how has this gone for you? I am from Greece as well and was thinking of starting on liquid myself but was always afraid that once I change from pill to liquid I Will start my many months rough journey all over again to find the best dose for me so I am always skipping it.
I always took Euthyrox (Merck) because there is nothing else in Romania. For about a year now, there have been some problems with Euthyrox, meaning that it was harder to find in pharmacies . It was probably too cheap (2 euro 100 pills) and going to other countries. Then Accuthyrox by Galenica (8 euro 150 ml, 5 ml=100 mcg) appeared and I decided to do something in the hope that I would be better. I've only been taking it for a month, I haven't done blood tests yet but I don't think there are any problems (I discussed on a forum with others who took this and there was no need for a dose adjustment). At the same time I started with t3 so if it works I will never know what it was. I know I didn't have to change two things at the same time, but I couldn't go on like this. I am a poor converter, only 1 to 4% FT3 in the last year so i had to do that change.
The liquid levo is very sweet but after a while you get used to it.
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and added a little t3. I still have it, in some days it seems like there were more than usual but I haven't lost hope.
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