Covid-19 symptom tracker app

[helvella]

I have been reporting every day since I found out that it existed.

Some of the UK’s largest charities are to help the developers of a Covid-19 symptom tracker app get over-70s to use it.

So far more than 2.5 million participants have downloaded the NHS-endorsed app created by King’s College London and health science company ZOE. But since its launch on 24 March, developers have found fewer older people logging in.

App designers want more over-70s and people with pre-existing health conditions, such as heart disease, diabetes and asthma, to sign up as they are considered most at risk from Covid-19 and symptoms may be different.

The Academy of Medical Royal Colleges and charities including Age UK, the British Heart Foundation, Cancer Research UK and Diabetes UK will use their social media and networks to help promote the app.

Study leader Claire Steves, clinical senior lecturer at King’s, said they would help developers “capture more data from people who may be less able to use an app”.

Through updates to what she called a “citizen science project”, people can now use the same phone to report their symptoms daily on the app and, with permission, those of someone they care for who may not have access to their own smartphone. Steves added:

[Over-70s and those with underlying conditions] seem to present slightly differently from the usual cough and fever. They might present with other things, like a confusional state or maybe diarrhoea, abdominal symptoms.

If we can really prove that and know that and share that with everybody then potentially that could be really important in reducing spread from the virus.

Anyone can join the study by downloading the app from covid.joinzoe.com/ and answering a few questions about their health and medications.

theguardian.com/politics/li...

[Marz]

As there seems to be a plan to remove us oldies as we are too expensive to maintain - I am loathe to connect to such a project. I do not have the underlying conditions mentioned and would like to cling onto life for as long as I am allowed ...

Symptoms are very individual as we know from thyroid issues. The symptoms mentioned above could be a food allergy so not necessary to have the Covid label.

[helvella in reply to Marz]

Which underlying conditions do you mean? The mention of heart, cancer and diabetes is just that those organisations have started to mention this app. The app itself is, so far as I can tell, neutral.

We have already seen loss of senses of taste and smell changed from pretty much totally ignored to being, possibly, a key symptom. Still uncertainty, to be sure, and other disorders/illnesses can have that effect, but now much more likely to be taken seriously and result in treatment.

I don't really see how the app would do anything reduce your ability to cling to life.

[Marz in reply to helvella]

Ah yes you are right ' I should have left out the word 'underlying" ...

The App as it stands is fine but where does it end. They - whoever they are - want us cooped up - wired for sound - the world has changed almost overnight and forever. I am scared that by monitoring me they will march me off for a vaccine.

Look at China and their whole lives are conducted through their phones and as a result every move they make can be monitored ... guess I am too old and grumpy to deal with such authoritarian ideas being slowly rolled out. That is what I meant about clinging on should the App lead to mandatory vaccines based on information gathered. Hope Kings can do better than Imperial with their projections 😥

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Marz]

Imperial made a total dogs breakfast of Foot and Mouth projections and ruined the farming industry, then they messed up with Swine flu or bird flu or whatever it was - why does anyone trust their maths? This time they are ruining the entire economy.

[Marz in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

It seems the government U turn was based on their computer modelling when huge numbers of deaths were predicted. They also predicted big numbers for the US. I have read Bill G has made contributions to Imperial .... will we ever know the truth ?

[Hidden]

I don't have any symptoms now that might suggest anything serious, but did, in January, have something that could suggest an extremely mild version of it. Worth contacting them do you think? Recently, when tired, I have had a slight sore throat and a feeling like getting a cold. But it disappears after a night's sleep.

[helvella in reply to Hidden]

They want everyone to use it - even just to report "I'm still OK". Otherwise they would only see people who think they are ill.

If you every day say you are OK, then start to have some symptoms, then get tested, whether positive or negative, that would provide a diary-like description of your experience.

In time, they might find they can better identify covid-19 or an ordinary cold, or hay fever. That might help everyone.

[Hidden in reply to helvella]

Can it be used on a desktop? I could only see an app (presumably for a mobile). I find it much easier on a desktop because having cataracts coming

[helvella in reply to Hidden]

No - app only.

I too would have preferred a desktop approach.

I'd actually have preferred a proper method of reporting. The idea that we are not even supposed to ring NHS 111 is bonkers. It is impossible for statistics to be properly gathered if there is no way of reporting.

Mild cases must be being missed.

(Yes, ideally an anonymous approach. Though there could be issues with anything that is suggested. Privacy is vital but so it being sure no-one is playing and putting in fake information.)

[greygoose in reply to helvella]

What about people, like me, who don't have mobile phones - surely I can't be the only one?

[vocalEK in reply to greygoose]

Presumably, you are expected to find a friend with a smart phone. "Through updates to what she called a “citizen science project”, people can now use the same phone to report their symptoms daily on the app and, with permission, those of someone they care for who may not have access to their own smartphone." Of course it would have to be a friend that you trust with knowledge about your medical condition.

[greygoose in reply to vocalEK]

Pft! What a stupid way to go about such an important activity. I don't even know anyone who has a smart phone. And, when in lockdown, how are we supposed to find someone, anyway. These people really do need to come down from their ivory towers and live in the real world.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to vocalEK]

How can you use a "friend's" smart phone and observer (anti) social distancing? I'm deliberately not taking my phone anywhere now in case it's tracking me. No way would I risk being locked up for having a cold

[vocalEK in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Good observation. It really IS anti-social distancing!

[helvella in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Call them from your mobile phone...

More seriously, the sharing a phone for reporting could be done in lots of ways including across a garden fence, using email, a landline, and so on.

[helvella in reply to greygoose]

'fraid so - you are the very last person not to have one.

The app was a re-working of an existing app that had been developed for the twins project. (Where they compare health issues in identical twins.)

I think that if someone were trying to design something expressly for the current circumstances, there would be many changes.

Indeed, just the other day it was updated. Now you can report in for several people - each person has their own profile. Therefore, a whole family could report through one phone. Something that would have been unlikely to have been needed as a twins app.

There is talk about some sort of contact detecting/tracing app. For precisely the reason you mention - not everyone having one - there is discussion about whether a simple wrist-device (think Apple or Galaxy watch - but much lower spec. and cheaper) might work. And whether they could be supplied without charge in order to get the best possible coverage. Possibly of particular use for younger children.

[greygoose in reply to helvella]

'fraid so - you are the very last person not to have one.

Nah, I don't believe that!

Well, my symptoms will just have to go unreported, then! Not that I have any - touch wood!

[Hidden in reply to greygoose]

I'm a technophobe and take ages to get the hang of anything new, but even I have a smartphone now (after a lot of nagging from online friends ).

The first time I tried to use it the thing wouldn't even switch on. I eventually realised I was holding it upside down, so the ON button was on the left, not the right as the instructions said. I was actually pressing the volume button.

DUH!

[greygoose in reply to Hidden]

I'm not a technophobe but I just don't want a mobile phone. I had several when I was working and I hated them all. I don't want to be reachable at all times. My land-line with answering machine is all I need. A mobile phone would just be a waste of money, as far as I'm concerned. As I always say, I have a fixed phone, a computer, and a television, and I don't feel the need to take any of them with me when I go out.

[Marz in reply to greygoose]

Too much snooping on us oldies is not good

They'll have the Sewing Circle police around in no time if we stray from the village hall ... Then when 5G is beaming at us from every lamp post they will know where we are and ramp up the energy to give us a heart attack 🌞.... am not a fan of allegedly well intentioned surveillance. They can ask Amazon about me as they know exactly what supplements I order and therefore my needs - or Ask Alexa !

Think it all deserves a Dawn French sketch - think I will write one 🥰😷

[Hidden in reply to Marz]

Many a true word spoken in jest .

I opted out when they sent round about organ donation. Not that I will care what happens to my body when I'm gone - they can give it to the rag and bone man if they like. It's the surveillance thing, and also I don't want to give any excuse for bumping me off before my time.

[Marz in reply to Hidden]

When I signed up with the Surgery last Autumn it was pointed out to me that it is suggested I sign the box that said I agreed to have my details shared - umm. I have since read that it is paving the way for our details to be shared with future medical insurance companies - if not already. Sigh !

I really can see that the App may help with gathering information in a positive way - but where does it end ?

[vocalEK in reply to helvella]

Go to Amazon. Look up Fitness Trackers, then check out the user reviews. I had trouble finding one that had lower than 15% of the reviews in the 1-star rating. Biggest complaint was that they are inaccurate. Don't keep good count of steps. The one I bought for $35 US shows my step count for today at 154, as opposed to the app in my phone showing 2,213. Close? My heart rate supposedly plummeted from 118 to 51 while I was still trying to catch my breath during an exercise session.

I went back and looked at reviews for more expensive products, and there wasn't much difference.

[helvella in reply to vocalEK]

I think you are talking about things like Fitbit, Polar, Huawei, Jawbone and so on?

This is something else entirely.

The idea is that youinstall a small app on a phone. Then, each day, you tell the app if you have been tested for covid-19, if you are healthy, any symptoms you have, whether you have called a doctor, or just at home on your own. (Of course, I have not gone through all the options and paths - only those that apply to me.)

The people running it can then see if there is a surge in cases in your area, or perhaps 90% of people who are later tested report having lost their senses of taste and smell, or suffered diarrhoea.

It is trying to track the outbreak. I am just an individual contributing data. It really doesn't do anything for me. In the fullness of time, perhaps what it discovers will feedback and help all of us? There again, maybe not.

I am willing to give it a go.

Nothing the government has done appears to be collecting information about cases which don't end up needing medical care. If I stay at home, take a couple of acetaminophens (paracetamol) and get better in a day or two, no-one else would know. My case would be entirely missed. But it might be important.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to helvella]

I am not a number! I am a free (wo)man.

[tattybogle in reply to greygoose]

You are not alone .

Well OK ,i have got one.... but it's the same one i had in 2001, it can do txt's and i can play space invaders !

But it's for MY convenience only, and absolutely not so anyone else can bother me when i'm wandering round a field...

Curmudgeonly-Luddites Unite !

[greygoose in reply to tattybogle]

No, I'm absolutely not a Luddites. I love technology, always have. I had computer - of sorts! had to write my own programmes - long before everyone else had one. And went on to teach computer English. I just don't like mobile phones - although I admit they're a very good idea for some people, I have no use for one. That's all.

[tattybogle in reply to greygoose]

I'm impressed.

Oh well, i shall just have to carry on being a luddite on my own.

I haven't figured out how to copy and paste on purpose yet , and i have to borrow rrr's and www's from a different keyboard!

But i can build a lovely house out of sticks and string and light a fire with damp wood

Tat xx

[greygoose in reply to tattybogle]

I'm sure you have lots of talents. We just all have different interests, that's all - and that's how it should be. What a boring world it would be if we were all the same.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to greygoose]

I'm a Luddite and I work in IT - they are not mutually exclusive. In fact the more IT security qualifications you get, the more of a Luddite you become.

[greygoose in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

lol

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to greygoose]

No, you aren't. One of my friends has a mobile but not a smart phone. I'm very tempted to go back to a dumb phone as it's too intrusive and I only need it for work calls and texts - not that I have any work now since we've been shut down

[Ladybex]

I wouldn’t sign up to this ... I agree with Marz

👍

[Hidden]

With the lack of widespread testing (eg. Such as in Germany), this could be the next best form of research. I haven’t done it myself, but I can really see it’s value!

[MichelleHarris]

I’ve been doing this too for months and several of my neighbours and friends are too.

It really does only take 10 seconds!

Its just to track where outbreaks of the virus are in the country and what first symptoms are if you become unwell x

[Hidden]

I have done it too - says over 2 million are using it. I am sure, as you say that the research would benefit wider use in different demographics. I have heard that elderly people may not have typical symptoms and may end up in hospital after collapsing and test positive. So many people not needing to go to hospital may have symptoms that are not yet recognised as covid symptoms. I looked at these researchers and one is an eminent scientist Tim Spector, who studies the gut microbiome, nutrition and Twin study genetic research. He has written some books. I think this is a brilliant idea and may be used to help us all move forward from this pandemic.

[Marz in reply to Hidden]

I did join him for the Gut Study and my sample or results were sent to San Diego for further analysis around 3 years ago. The results showed my gut micro-biome matched others in the Eastern Med where I lived at the time.

Am guessing that is why I have had various viral challenges since my return to the UK. The gut micro-biome is so important - so wish it was talked about more at this time. So many meds can interfere with gut health/immune system ...

[Jasp6]

I am also using the app. There is more information on early findings and how the data can be used in some interesting articles and webinars linked from covid.joinzoe.com/blog. It sounds like it might become a key early indicator of an increase in cases as lockdown is eased.

[Angel_of_the_North]

Quite honestly, all the symptoms that allegedly point to this virus could be anything from a cold, through IBS, to B12 deficiency, especially in elderly people on multiple meds. Just sounds like a ploy to scare people into thinking they have this disease when they have other (more easily) treatable conditions. I don't fancy being injected with foreign DNA either or nanobots (I read Blood Music many years ago)

[AmandaK]

My 89-year-old Dad is happy to use a computer, but has a visceral hatred of smartphones/mobiles .

The very people they want to reach are the very people who are unlikely to own a smartphone so why were they surprised that fewer older people were logging in? At least they have now seen sense and made adaptations.

I've come to the conclusion that the lockdown is throwing common sense out of the window.

Just like the mixed messages about wearing masks:

1. Only those showing symptoms should wear masks as the mask creates a barrier should the person cough/sneeze.

2. Those without COVID-19 don't benefit from wearing a mask, despite the fact that there are a number of people who are asymptomatic.

3. Those who aren't symptomatic could, if they wish, wear a scarf or homemade mask.

4. Mask-wearing is likely to spread the virus as people are more likely to touch their face when adjusting the mask.

So, taking the above, these are the logical conclusions:

1. Those who are asymptomatic don't have symptoms in which case they don't need to wear a mask.

2. Given you don't know if you are asymptomatic or not, if you don't wear a mask you might be spreading the virus unwittingly.

Therefore, everyone should wear a mask.

3. The advice seems to suggest that if you wear a scarf or homemade mask, you are more likely to be protected than if you are wearing a mask, and you are less likely to to touch your face.

In fact, you are equally likely to be less protected (logically) and more likely to touch your face as you'll be forever ensuring the items remain on your face, esp a scarf which has a habit of dropping down.

No wonder we are confused, with a lack of logic with every governmental utterance.

[vocalEK in reply to AmandaK]

Wow! A term that I learned in Philosophy 101 (aka Logic) xxx years ago popped into my head: tautology.