Hi there, does anyone on here know about and understand the link between hypothyroidism,adrenal insufficiency and oestrogen dominance.

[sobs1962]

I've done a lot of research and all 3 conditions can co-exist at the same time. Got an endo appointment on 6th April (if it goes ahead) but believe some endocrinologists are very arrogant and won't listen to their patients. Any help or advice greatly appreciated.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

See from your profile you can’t get Ft3 tested

Please add any other recent test results and ranges

Are you on levothyroxine

How much and how long on that dose ?

For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested. Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12

Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially if you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) diagnosed by raised Thyroid antibodies

Have you had vitamins and antibodies tested?

Ask GP to test vitamin levels

You may need to get full Thyroid testing privately as NHS refuses to test TG antibodies if TPO antibodies are negative

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .

Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test. (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip, best not mentioned to GP or phlebotomist)

Is this how you do your tests?

Private tests are available. Thousands on here forced to do this as NHS often refuses to test FT3 or antibodies

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

For thyroid including antibodies and vitamins

Medichecks Thyroid plus ultra vitamin or Blue Horizon Thyroid plus eleven are the most popular choice. DIY finger prick test or option to pay extra for private blood draw. Both companies often have special offers, Medichecks usually have offers on Thursdays, Blue Horizon its more random

[sobs1962 in reply to SlowDragon]

Thanks for that, I am on Levothyroxine 125mcg which was reduced from 150mcg last summer and my new GP has taken me off my Vitamin D tablets as said I should be able to get enough from sun(what sun?) and despite me having chronically extremely low levels. The reason I've done so much research is to arm myself with the facts when I go to see the endocrinologist and I have just received my thyroid blood testing kit from Medichecks and will do this and send back in next few days. Regarding the cortisol and DHEA, I simply cannot afford to do any more tests as not currently working due to serious mental health problems .

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to sobs1962]

What were your results on 150mcg levothyroxine

What are results on 125mcg levothyroxine

All blood tests should be as early as possible in morning before eating or drinking anything other than water and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

Is this how you do your tests?

Self-supplementing vitamins necessary for many many patients to maintain optimal vitamin levels

Folate at least over ten

B12 at least over 500

Ferritin at least half way through range

Vitamin D, GP will only prescribe to bring levels to 50nmol. But improving to around 80nmol or 100nmol may be better

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/218...

vitamindsociety.org/pdf/Vit...

Once you Improve level, you may need on going maintenance dose to keep it there.

Test twice yearly via vitamindtest.org.uk

Vitamin D mouth spray by Better You is very effective as it avoids poor gut function. There’s a version made that also contains vitamin K2 Mk7

It’s trial and error what dose we need, with hashimoto’s we frequently need higher dose than average

ouh.nhs.uk/osteoporosis/use...

Government recommends everyone supplement October to April

gov.uk/government/news/phe-...

Also read up on importance of magnesium and vitamin K2 Mk7 supplements when taking vitamins

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

livescience.com/61866-magne...

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

Vitamin K2 mk7

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

Good vitamin D may help adrenals. Vitamin D is actually a pre-steroid hormone rather than a vitamin

[sobs1962 in reply to SlowDragon]

I have no idea what my results were,as my mental health problems stop me from pushing the doctor for more info and I don't know if I would understand what the results mean as I go through phases of believing I am really thick due to my serious mental health conditions. As I said I'm not working and cannot afford to spend money I don't have on vitamins and supplements as they are so expensive.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to sobs1962]

You are legally entitled to printed copies of your blood test results and ranges.

The best way to get access to current and historic blood test results is to register for online access to your medical record and blood test results

UK GP practices are supposed to offer everyone online access for blood test results. Ring and ask if this is available and apply to do so if possible, if it is you may need "enhanced access" to see blood results.

In reality many GP surgeries do not have blood test results online yet

Alternatively ring receptionist and request printed copies of results. Allow couple of days and then go and pick up.

Important to see exactly what has been tested and equally important what hasn’t been tested yet

For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested. Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12

Once you get results come back with new post....members can advise on what next steps should be

[Marz in reply to sobs1962]

We can always help you with any results.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Also have you considered doing cortisol and DHEA test ?

regeneruslabs.com/products/...

cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...

[humanbean]

I can't explain the connection, but I've found a few links that might be helpful.

How the Adrenals and Thyroid Are Connected

Link : holtorfmed.com/how-the-adre...

A Balancing Act Between Your Adrenals, Thyroid & Sex Hormones

hypothyroidmom.com/a-balanc...

The Connection between Adrenal and Thyroid Health (Parts 1 & 2)

mojoandmoxie.ca/2018/06/21/...

mojoandmoxie.ca/2018/08/14/...

Some generic info on female sex hormones, specifically how to interpret tests :

functionalmedicine.net/pdf/...

The rest of this post is just waffle from me and is simply my opinion.

One of the things that I have often thought about when reading up on thyroid and adrenals is the restricted definition of what causes stress. Stereotypically, people think of stress as something they suffer from when they have to deal with a screaming baby every day, or a bullying boss, or a grumpy partner or lack of money or a burglary or a car breakdown or ....

The assumption is that people who suffer from stress are simply not good at dealing with life's problems and they have mental problems i.e. they get blamed for their own poor reactions to stress. So they get prescribed anti-depressants or drugs to reduce anxiety and are then packed off to carry on with their lives with no other changes being made to improve anything, and an additional stressor to deal with in the form of an addictive drug that they may never come off again.

But in my opinion, stress can develop from all sorts of sources and in all sorts of ways other than those I mentioned above.

Physical : Having a cold or a broken leg or any other physical ailment will cause stress to some extent.

Biochemical : Try living with low vitamin B12 or low iron or any other low nutrient. The body won't work optimally and will cause stress.

Dietary : Living through a famine will cause stress. And so many people in today's society do this voluntarily to try and lose weight. Eating a diet deficient in protein and fat and eating too much carbs is not good either.

I've suffered from low iron and/or ferritin my entire life - it seems to affect all of the females on my mother's side of the family and even affected a couple of male cousins too. I was always depressed and anxious. Then several years ago I started testing and treating my own iron and related levels and also started supplementing iron. (My doctor was only going to prescribe one prescription for me so I started buying my own iron supplements.) My serum iron was below range and my ferritin was scraping the bottom of the barrel. Eventually (it took nearly two years because I absorb iron poorly), I got my ferritin up to mid-range. My serum iron improved, and is now in range but unfortunately I can't get my serum iron to be optimal unless I push my ferritin above optimal which I refuse to do. But the end result of this major improvement in my iron is that my depression and anxiety have diminished immensely. In the meantime, I have been reducing my anti-depressant use slowly, and now I often forget to take them. And I have the iron to thank for that (in my opinion).

For other people the key might be a combination of nutrients or a low level of something specific e.g. Vitamin B12 or folate or vitamin D or zinc or... But everyone has to find out what it is in their biology that doesn't work well and then try and fix it - and nutrients is the easiest place to start.

Fixing low nutrient levels reduces stress on the body and thus has a knock-on effect on other biochemical processes in the body.

Just my tuppence-worth.

[sobs1962 in reply to humanbean]

I just wish the doctors I have consulted would actually listen to me and not have the attitude" I am the doctor I know everything and you as the patient know nothing,or at least only think you know and understand how the endocrine system works". I suffer from treatment resistant depression,anxiety and suspected Borderline Personality Disorder and being talked down to or just ignored makes me feel like there is no point in fighting anymore because it's getting me nowhere. I have an appointment to see my psychiatrist next week and am desperately hoping he will listen and be on my side.

[humanbean in reply to sobs1962]

Doctors have always had that kind of attitude to me as well. That's why I treat as many of my own problems as I can. I experiment a lot, and try and test basic things once or twice a year.

The biggest thing I've found helpful (in connection with dealing with doctors) is to only go to doctor appointments with my husband if this is at all feasible. I've been treated like a hysterical time-wasting female all my life. But doctors are far more polite when I have a witness.

If you go to see a doctor with a witness the best witnesses are mature males, who must also be on your side and who won't undermine you. Unfortunately for us, doctors are often inherently sexist and they are far more likely to be polite and listen when an adult man is in the room.

I don't know if you can use this suggestion with a psychiatrist though. But for GPs and hospital consultants it makes a huge difference.

[sobs1962 in reply to humanbean]

Thanks for that, unfortunately my husband is still working despite being 68, however he works in the school sector and as all schools are to be closed from Friday,he should be able to come with me to my appointments. I really hope it may do the trick.

[humanbean in reply to sobs1962]

Good luck.

[Marz in reply to sobs1962]

Hopefully your Psychiatrist will be aware of the connection between low thyroid hormone T3 and mental health. T3 is used as a treatment for mental health conditions. Ask them to test TSH - FT4 - FT3 and Anti-TPO & Anti-Tg. Also ask for testing of B12 - Folate - Ferritin - VitD - which if low in range can be linked to mental health.

Do you have a good diet ?

Hope your appointment goes well.

[sobs1962 in reply to Marz]

To be fair because of my depression, some days I eat hardly anything but I do try to eat healthily and I take probiotic drinks daily.

[Marz in reply to sobs1962]

Have you found Dr Kelly Brogan on-line ? She was a conventional pschyiatrist in the US who realised her patients were not getting better on drugs. She talks about the gut and the brain and a balanced gut micro-biome.

May be worth researching low T3 syndrome and mental health too ...

[Redlester in reply to humanbean]

I am the same Humanbean - low serum iron and have had low ferritin [about the 13 mark] for the last decade and more which my Gps have always been content to sign off as "normal" and I a) didn't know about because I never knew I needed to see the actual results and b) didn't know what normal levels were (and were not!). My last set of bloods done by my GP produced the same abnormalities but she couldn't, for some reason, analyse them. I was going to order an iron panel test from medichecks - if I did that and posted the results would that give people here enough information to advise me whether to start supplementing myself?. I try to eat an iron rich diet but it doesn't seem to make much difference.

[humanbean in reply to Redlester]

Yes, a full iron panel will allow people to make suggestions. To find out if you are actually anaemic you would need a Full Blood Count too. ( This is called a Complete Blood Count in the USA and possibly some other countries.)

I would always suggest that people try and do as much research of their own as they can, in addition to reading on here.

Never forget that nobody on this forum can be assumed to be a doctor, I'm certainly not a doctor and I have no medical training of any kind.

I'm not good at absorbing iron from food either, and until recently have almost always been low in range or deficient. I now take a maintenance dose of iron to maintain my levels as close to optimal as I can.

[Redlester in reply to humanbean]

Thanks Humanbean - while I can do a medichecks iron panel I would need the GP to do a CBC for full picture re anaemia but at leas if I had the iron panel it would be at least able to indicate whether there is iron deficiency going on. I would like to supplement to see if it would make a difference - i was thinking of trying the Better You spray to absorb it in the mouth thus bypassing the digestive system as that could be the source of my problem [low stomach acid]

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Few links about Mental issues including Bi-polar and Hashimoto's

drknews.com/when-hashimotos...

holtorfmed.com/mental-illne...

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

hypothyroidmom.com/miss-dia...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...