I have to ask if anyone has gone through a spectrum of political ideologies, based on the healthcare and if they caused yourself to switch political stances. I known Labour and Conservative, regarding both have followed social democrat policy on socialized healthcare. Btw I am across the pond in the states, just curious about the UK state of healthcare, especially availability of thyroid medicine. I believe the US having privatization of healthcare has in effect been morally reprehensible, especially with pre-existing conditions charging higher premiums, most beneficial drugs are high tiered, whereas no can afford them.
Hypothyroidism and Social Democrat Ideology - Thyroid UK
Hypothyroidism and Social Democrat Ideology
49 Replies
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Our Conservative party seem hell bent on underfunding & selling our presently free NHS off to American healthcare companies under the ruse that it will be more effective. Many services have already been sold off to private companies, some seem run well & others are not. Hopefully these sell offs won't increase & healthcare will remain free at the point of use as currently we don't loose our homes if we can't pay for treatment. We do have to pay towards dental treatments though a limited range is available free for those on low incomes. Whilst we get subsidised medication within those listed as available, & people diagnosed with hypothyroidism get free prescriptions for life, there are currently issues with funding some hypothyroid folks with effective treatment due to the expense of T3. Similarly NDT isn't considered an option by most doctors, so some people choose to buy their own or T3 rather than remain ill.
Politics & social healthcare are subjective issues, so this is just my point of view.
in reply to BadHare
Yeah I understand things are ridge it here in the states, hmo are pandering high premiums for I would say unethical screening to deliberately lead people to pay crazy high premiums, by the time you pay deductibles, it is time to renew your policy. One thing I would say with market based economics, especially most developed countries are mixed economics is their needs to be higher GDP directed towards universal healthcare. A private subsidized healthcare, profit always always quality demand. In finance we call it there is no such thing as a free lunch.
Thought this might interest you:
opendemocracy.net/en/opende...
It's long! I haven't read it all, yet. 
in reply to greygoose
Wow! It sounds like the NHS is in shambles with Jeremy Hunt seems determined to not necessarily switch NHS to privatize but he wants to give contracts and subcontracts to companies like Virgin Care and Carillon. Yeah he sounds like he is about big business interest, although I don’t think opendemocracy favors Brits too.
in reply to
Sounds like a gospel of neoliberalism politics!
Nico101 in reply to
Hunt literally wrote the book on how to privatise the nhs.
a quick look into mp's outside friends and business 'interests' will often show investments in private healthcare. like all those who voted against making homes fit for human habitation law were private landlords - and so on.
Probably not allowed to post it, but Jonathan Pie's latest YouTube video about JH is good. Sadly his policies aren't when his family's money is from private healthcare.
No, you can't post that! Lots of naught words! 
VERY NAUGHTY, but he is right! 
There were a lot of naughty words from me last night. I read all of the article you posted, despite being so late. I've seen some of that information elsewhere, but to read it all in one go was shocking. I'm even more horrified by what the self-servatives are doing to our health care!
Yes, he is right. About a lot of things. And what's going on is more than shocking, it's totally immoral. How do these people live with themselves?
I can give both perspectives. I lived in the states all my life. I have been Hypo for 16 years. I have tried almost all of the drugs available. The one that works the best for me is Armour. I had a Doctor in the states that was good she understood that I understand my body and that I know when my meds are off and where all my levels should sit. I paid $40 for a three month prescription. My health insurance was on top of that price. Before moving here I did loads of research b/c I was not going back to synthetic thyroid hormone. I stocked up on a year supply before moving here. FYI get the prescription filled before you come here b/c they do not take American prescriptions. I did not do that and had to wait for someone to go back to America to get the rest of my pills. When I moved here I had already found a Dr. and discussed getting Armour. My spouses family told me I was wrong and that I could get my meds here. What do I know I only did the research. So I tried it. Made and appointment with GP. I got a locum which is a Dr. filling in. She said I cannot help you will need to see a specialist( endocrinologist). So they made the appointment which took 6 weeks. I went to the appt. The Dr. had just gotten back from lunch when I got there. He sat in his office for 25 minutes before he saw me. He informed me he didn't want to see me b/c he had dealt with people "like" me before. I said I just want to know if you can prescribe armour he said no I said do you know who can? He gave me a couple of names and did offer a more in depth blood test for me to take to the other Dr. I then tried to make and appt with one of the suggestions. One no longer practiced and the other said yes. The other one I needed a referral so I went back to my GP said I needed the referral they gave it to me. Appt in 8 weeks. The information about the appt came through and just to double check I called to verify. You will be able to prescribe armor correct. No we don't prescribe that. So after all that I started all this in January it was now October. I went back to the list I had to begin with doing all the research before I moved here. I found a couple called to check they would prescribe Armour. As a side note not one of these Doctors touched my thyroid gland not one. Made the appt with the private Doctor another 3 weeks to wait. Finally went to the private Doctor had to drive for 2 hours to get to her office. She said Hi how can I help you felt my thyroid checked my blood levels and said what would you like. I said. I have been on 120mg of armour could I have a prescription for that she said sure. It cost me 175 pounds to see her and 200 for a three month prescription. So if you made it to the end. My advice go private to start make sure they prescribe what you are looking for. I did look into buying it overseas but it seemed to be a bit of a hassle and sometimes not reliable and alas I am rule follower.
Sorry you had such a faff.
The company I buy NDT from export Armour to the UK, as well as less expensive NDT's.
in reply to yogamommy
Hand over fist, many calculable barriers, if you want meds. I had issues her in the states, the forrest labs, who manufactures the medicine changes the formulation. Next thing you know no Doctor wants to prescribe, it’s almost taboo. Finally I found a doctor who will prescribe it but Forrest labs started price gouging.
I work for a private healthcare company in the UK. We have some contracts from the NHS. Our new director prioritises budget above care and quality, affecting the delivery of care to our patients. For this, she receives a huge salary with at least a £100,000 annual bonus. This is tip of the ugly, corrupt iceberg stuff, chipping away at the NHS. Her bonus would pay for another consultant etc. Im looking for another job, with sharpened socialist values. Im ashamed of working for them, they disgust me. The NHS is in real danger.
If you'd like to read a short book about politically-originated damage to the NHS over the past 30-35 years, you'll be able to see that it is in fact coordinated. The title is How to Dismantle the NHS in 10 Easy Steps (second edition). The author, Dr Youssef el Gingihy, sums up all the changes over that period, and shows that marketisation/privatisation has been the means of funding and managing the NHS since the late 1980s, whatever the political stripe of the government. I'm old enough that I can remember the early changes, and their direct impact on me as a patient.
The NHS has never been properly funded, but the rot really set in with the 1980s/90s Conservative government under Thatcher and Major. The 'reforms' of the Blair Labour govt after the 1997 election, which were only partly intended to ameliorate the decline of the NHS, have had additional deleterious consequences. Gordon Brown (Chancellor of the Exchequer 1997 - 2007) tried to improve things asap by means of the Public-Private Finance Initiative (PPFI), using private investment to get hospitals and services up and running as fast as possible. In doing so, effective ownership of many NHS assets passed to the private sector, while the public service took on all the liabilities. The consequences were surely foreseeable to someone like Gordon Brown (a very clever man, whatever else one may think of him), but then the Labour Party under Blair worshipped money as much as the Self-servatives (thanks BadHare , I'm stealing that one!). In many ways, it was a bleak time for people like myself, with firmly-held traditional Labour values. But the situation since 2010 has been bleak in ways I could just about imagine when the Tories got back in again, though events have shown me that I'd hugely underestimated their venality and conscience-free outlook.
I've seen mention of that! >
I think I picked up Self-servatives on Twitter. Bliar certainly falls into that category along with the other blue Labour MPs. It makes me seethe!
yes, blair and new labour were never socialist. the dream child of thatcher and murdoch, and neoliberal to the core. that includes brown, btw, who is, as i write, collaborating with the other neoliberals to topple corbyn with the most extraordinary lies and smears.
pfis were an abomination sold as the answers to our prayers for the nhs. brown is a clever man and knew exactly what he was doing.
i also like con-servatives. i have other names for them, but i can't post them on here.
My friends in the Netherlands and Germany speak highly of their systems. Both need you to pay more money in to access their public health services .. a kind of health insurance, you could say... but the service they get is then much higher because the system is adequately funded and it is easy to see a specialist.
I think that in both these systems the GP does not wield quite as much power as ours do either. In the Netherlands you somehow can refer yourself to a specialist.
I'm an American who has lived in Germany for four years now. The public insurance system here is similar to the US HMO system in one sense, that you have a GP who has to refer you to specialists. But they are quite willing to do so, as far as I have seen. The problem is that you then have to wait quite a while for a specialist appointment, as some of them take only private insurance. That said, there are no co-pays to see a doctor, you can go whenever you want, there is no deductible and in every possible way the entire system is a million times better than the US and living here is making me more and more of a Socialist every day!
Excellent insights for us to sink teeth into - thanks for explaining.
A friend is a midwife in Germany. She says that in some ways the system is quite old fashioned (more power still resides with the doctors there than it does in nurses and midwives who work in the UK)) but is better resourced in many ways than the British NHS is. A calmer place to work in.
So, ThyroQueen, where do the GPs / endos there stand on the various treatments for hypothyroidism? (Am of course assuming that is what you have, which could be wrong).
PS. You pay a hefty whack of income into the health system, in Germany, so you can take advantage of it! So it seems avowedly capitalist to me.
PPS. I think the German / Dutch funding models are good ones. I am just saying the American perception of Socialism is very particular!
in reply to HowNowWhatNow
In fact, most American politicians have no understanding of socialism, are system is a mixed economy. Of course America has a lot of similarities with socialisn regulated markets (SEC), subsidized healthcare for the infirm and retirees, welfare, foodstamps, and other benefits. Our economy has not been purely capitalist probably since 1898.
Yeah the German economic model is Social Democracy which embraces capitalism. But provides state support for citizens. I like it a lot so far! Yes, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's by an endo here, with a simple scan, after decades of getting my thyroid meds from psychiatrists in the US and endos saying I was "fine according to my tests". I probably would never have gotten on Synthroid and then added T3 without psychiatrists and I can't imagine how sick I would have been.
But the first endo I saw here, where they produce and prescribe T3 but disapprove of it heartily, wanted me off T3. I went down to 10mcgs from 20 (with increased T4, up to 150) before I couldn't tolerate the bloating, water retention, brain fog and constipation, and the 15-lb weight gain in six weeks. Then I discovered this board and carefully followed instructions to SLOWLY restore T3 dose, reduce T4, optimize vitamins. Now I feel great on a weird ratio of 75 T4/30 T3! All symptoms gone and more energy than I've had in so many years. It's unreal the difference enough T3 makes.
in reply to HowNowWhatNow
Yes you’re correct, they also have some of the highest marginal tax rates in the world, but at least public goods and healthcare out weigh the negatives.
The European models don’t suit everyone. My father in the U.S. had grown accustom to walking home within hours following his cardioversions. While living in France he had a cardiac ablation & the doctor told him “This isn’t America you are staying here (the hospital) a week.” Good for the French doctor!
I think when his U.S. employer received the bill however it may have shocked them, because my father was retired (two months shy of 80. Not to worry he quickly lined up two more jobs).
Sorry to hear your dad didn’t appreciate the French way of doing things!
I spent a week in a French skiing town hospital, after breaking my leg into smithereens. The surgeon I saw there told me, looking at my X Ray, that he saw injuries as bad as mine maybe once every 5 years or so. He then cut my leg open and put a metal rod in it that is still there, and that saved my leg. Every single time an orthopaedic surgeon sees an X-Ray of this leg they say “where did you get this done?”, open-mouthed, because what he did took so much skill. The operation was done while I was on local anaesthetic, too - my choice.
Everything from the surgeons to the nurses to the beds to - you know it - the food - was perfection and I can’t find fault with a single thing. I have had lots of NHS experience (operations and otherwise) since but - although the staff are extremely skilled in their fields here - the overall quality of care and attention to detail is better in France. They spend more money on it and we are not prepared to pay that much tax.
Totally agree, my father’s French doctor also had to have been exceptionally skilled just to have held him in the hospital for a week. ALL my father’s U.S. doctors will vouch for that!
Ha!!!
Oh where to start? There are certainly those in the Conservative party -with no experience of poverty, unemployment, living in depressed economic areas, who would welcome privatisation with open arms. They and their families can afford private health care and the rest of us ...well I don’t think they care. It is like blaming the poor and ill for their fate. Our NHS is in my opinion a fantastic thing. Yes it gets things wrong (mainly in admin) and sometimes you feel joined up thinking is not in place but all in all most of us would fight and even pay more tax, to keep it in place. I cannot contemplate what it must be like, living in a rich country where people die for lack of funds or where insurance doesn’t provide enough cover. We have some financing problem especially where some drug companies who have a monopoly on particular drugs, try and hold us to ransom and inflate the prices. One of these I would like is T3, but I am okayish without it, also a pill I have for occasional vertigo has been priced x 6 so don’t know if it will be available in future. And then the Eyelea for my AMD injections is several times the Avastin I have for my other eye. Certainly not complaining though I feel we are suffering from Brexit insecurity when some of our fantastic health care professionals feel unwanted and leave or don’t settle here. I could go on but won’t!
Well I am in Canada, our "system" is disgusting and does not work. The saying is "wait in line to die". The US left wing Democrats are trying to sell our system to Americans - no one should emulate our useless model. I am considering purchasing important medical services in the US and am considering purchasing US health insurance (see below).
We have a communist style centrally planned, centrally rationed system. There is no private medical care in Canada, none. There are only 2 other countries in the world with our delivery model, Cuba and North Korea. The provincial governments own everything and everyone is a government employee. In Ontario, our provincial budget is 60% the "free healthcare" leaving not much for other services and activities. We pay 13% tax on everything in Canada, politicians typically state part of this pays for our "free healthcare".
In Ontario approx 32% of citizens have no family doctor, so no service other than emerg and a walk in clinic. They have no access to specialists.
Even if you are lucky enough to have a family doctor, there are very few specialists, so wait times are often 1 year or longer.
The only thing our system does well is for serious things like cancer etc, where you will get good care - anything else is not considered important.
Canadians are lemmings, accepting of this system - in fact, Canadians truly think it is "free" and they will NOT allow any changes whatsoever because to make a single change would make our system more like the American system, and Canadians hate the American system. Canadian politicians rarely address the health system cause they know they do not have too
However, some of us are thankful for the access and choice of the American way. I can not get a specialist to assist me in my Hashi's. The family doctor is useless, sound familiar?
Therefore, I am working on becoming a client of the H---orf group in Atlanta. They have 9 doctors who do nothing but thyroid and autoimmune situations. Yes it is expensive, but I have the cash because I planned for this contingency when I was young, knowing the useless Canadian medical system, so had no kids, so have the cash to take care of myself.
South of Toronto at the US border, there are many border crossing bridges. Approx 20% of the crossings are medical visits to the US. Many health firms in Buffalo etc, have websites with a Canadian portal - they will even arrange your hotel stay.
No system anywhere is going to withstand the impact of demographics.
Just be thankful you have some choice in your countries - access to private care option - in Canada not.
Even in the Soviet Union they have the 2 system model, the private model is the most used.
The Soviet Union hasn't existed for quite a while. Centrally-planned services don't amount to communism, though I can certainly understand your frustrations with the Canadian public health system.
I'm guessing that Canada's vast geography combined with low population density also plays a significant part in your access to specialist medics?
That’s so funny you say all this, I have never heard these complaints from anyone before. My grandpa is Canadian and he’s never said this either. I’ve met an American who flew to Canada to get medical treatment because the cost of the same treatment there was a tenth of the US equivalent. I will look into the Canadian model and see what your health outcomes are compared to those in the United States - or do you already know this?
Well few Canadians complain because they do not want changes. They are accepting of the status quo because the health care is considered Free and not American. I am interested to know what service the American purchased in Canada - the Shouldice clinic for hernia perhaps?
Outcomes are good in Canada a bit ahead of Americans, as reported by the media. Have not researched the stats too much or the sources of said research to determine the underlying agenda. Just because our predominantly left wing media reports something does not mean it is true.
Socialism has nothing to do with excellent health care but the size of the budget and emphasis on prevention does.
The service - in answer to your question - was a major orthopaedic operation.
Thanks. Fascinating because my neighbor has been waiting for over a year for similar.
My concern with the American system is that the service delivers high quality for a few, at a ludicrous price, and the incentives are in all the wrong places. It’s like a bathroom covered in gold on all the surfaces - yes, it does the job but not many can afford it / want to spend all their income, disposable / otherwise on it.
A good friend lives in Silicon Valley. She had a simple appendectomy last summer. The price - she had health insurance - of the operation was $86,000. She paid a few thousand in excess, not the full amount. And do you, with all your savings, think that is a reasonable price to charge for a very simple in-and-out operation?
in reply to HowNowWhatNow
It’s not unusual for the opposite in the US, whereas the cost of medical procedures and wait time is so long that they go to Mexico, Costa Rica or Canada. There is good percentage of Americans who buy basic living prescriptions from out of the United States. Two of the saddest things, I saw a lady at a US pharmacy get turned away, because her insurance wouldn’t pay for her cancer medication. A guy with a gunshot wound left on a stretcher outside of a hospital because he didn’t have proof of insurance.
my issues go back 7 years and are interwoven with the Dept of Works & Pensions. once you turn over the rock and what venal bs lies beneath you start to question everything.
i've always despised the conservatives but was leaning towards the Lib Dems and voted for them in 2015.
but when Corbyn became Labour leader and the media began a campaign of almost laughable smears against him it piqued my interest. i looked into the man and his voting record and expense records. i promptly joined the Labour party.
indeed, the more the media smears him - they're full on at the moment, so i expect a GE is due - he more i do my best to support him.
we haven't had a socialist gov in nearly 4 decades. when we last did, the nhs was great.
it's been a very steep learning curve for me, but i now understand what is going on and can see through the propaganda with 20-20 vision.
i've also learned to take care of my own health as much as poss.
we need a truly socialist gov to get our public services back on track. i understand that now, as well as how the media - on behalf of the establishment - has made unions and socialism a dirty word.
here here.
i'd go further and bring in a law that states that any mp with a conflict of interest on any subject may not vote on it - and that includes those with family members or close friends involved in the conflict of interest.
furthermore, the nhs should be cross party and off limits to neoliberal policies. it's abhorrent that tories and their vulture capitalist cronies can sell it off by stealth.
and what happened with that C U Next Tuesday Richard Branson suing the nhs because he didn't get the contract he was after makes me sick to my stomach.
and yet... the elderly - those that need and use the nhs the most - vote tory! perhaps an iq test should be taken before someone is allowed to vote.
i think it should be compulsory for people to watch The Lobby and Witch-hunt. make them understand who's really running the show and how badly we need Corbyn to change the current status quo.
and separate sociopaths from a job in the cabinet...
very interesting. thank you.
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