I wish I’d read this short guide when I was first diagnosed years ago ☹️
Extract from 1993 Book re Testing for thyroid ... - Thyroid UK
Extract from 1993 Book re Testing for thyroid problems - you have to wonder why in 2019 GPs and/some endos are so ignorant !
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Claireinthecommunit
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When I was diagnosed last September and got my first script I was lead to believe I would quickly return to 'normal' as soon as Levo kicked in. How wrong was I? I'm genuinely floored at the general apathy from GP's and a general lack of knowledge. How can so many health professionals be so clueless?
I don’t know what country you live in but it seems to be a universal problem. I understand that GPs can’t know everything but it seems that they are all the same when it comes to the thyroid. Ignorant but acting like they are experts. They seem reluctant to treat us like individuals and as long as the numbers are in range, we are ok. If we aren’t then it’s in our heads!! It is so darn frustrating!!
Im UK. At my last appt my GP refused to up my Levo from 50mg. The worsening symptoms led me here (and thank God they did) as I too would have been living in ignorance, taking my GPs word as gospel that I am normal. My next scheduled appt is in 3 weeks time. This time I will go armed with all the info. Will be interested to see what they suggest eill be the next course of action.
Yes, medics learning to master this should be consultant endos by now. But it must be a US book as got ref to AACE, wonder what ‘same’ book says now re TSH levels?
The book “Womens Health” was in my local library and I had a quick flick through and there’s a section on the Thyroid. I was curious as to its date as although the advice was relevant the book looked dated - and found that it was 1993.
So a general health book rather than for medics? Surprised your library had kept it...my library would have sold it off ages ago!
Went to library and it wasn't there. Librarian searched under Womens Health without success. Mystery! She will keep looking. It turns out her daughter has been diagnosed hypothyroid and not doing very well at all so she became quite zealous in trying to find it. Needless to say I gave her the Forum details. Will let you know if she comes up eith anything.
Ooh , spooky after all this time...perhaps a fellow forum member found it!
Would you mind posting the author/s?
I cant remember Sandra but will get it next time I visit the library
Thanks
Im afraid I cant remember the author. I Went to library but the book wasn't there. Librarian searched computer records under Womens Health without success. Mystery! She will keep looking. It turns out her daughter has been diagnosed hypothyroid and not doing very well at all so she became quite zealous in trying to find it. Needless to say I gave her the Forum details. Will let you know if she comes up with anything.
No worries, it was very kind of you to try. Thanks
This was accurate then and it is still accurate now 'as a guide'. It is beyond shocking that there are pushes now to only treat TSH > 20 in the pipeline here in the UK, if this goes ahead, it spells disaster. Many people are bedbound when their TSH is still within the already wide 'normal' range ie up to 5, this will mean millions will deteriorate, never get diagnosed, nor get treated at all, they will die. No doubt they will be told its all in their heads and given anti depressants which seems to be what's given out for 'every' medical problem under the sun these days, meanwhile the population gets sicker. The system is broken. It has never been about healthcare, more about sickcare. Making money is the only thing that matters to drug companies and they can only make it by preventing good health and sustaining ill health. This is why they only fund studies that will make them money yet never do studies like ' Hypothyroids 'numerous' symptoms on levo v NDT, Combo T4/T3 or Mono T3' . . . . . if they did, the evidence would be stark that improved health and reduction of symptoms is needed for a 'large cohort' of people.
I’m in the U.S. and my primary care doctor wanted to give me an anti-depressant instead of Xanax which I take for tremors of hand and anxiety / panic attacks. Have taken it for years without abusing it but because of the U.S. opioid crisis it is now nearly impossible to get Xanax or a pain medication for people who really need it. I don’t want an anti-depressant when I’m not depressed. My previous doctor wanted to give me an anti-depressant instead of a pain medication. It’s ridiculous.
I’ve had the same problem on getting thyroid treated properly. My naturopathic doctor who knew how to treat thyroid has retired and I really miss her. She treated my thyroid according to how I felt and didn’t just assume TSH only was the way to treat and as long as it’s in range - even if at very bottom of the range - then all is well. Doesn’t matter if you feel awful apparently.
My dog had dental work & even my dog can’t have post procedure pain medication, only anti steroidal pills. Now she is absolutely terrified to go anywhere in the car. I am in the U.S.
Im in the Uk but really it seems that wherever you are the situation is depressingly similar. We have a saying here from a past popular tv programme highlighting figures of ‘authority’ in our everyday lives whose thinking is ruled by their PC.
“The computer says no”
They do not ‘actively’ listen, they are not enquiring nor, in my case, examining physical signs. Why? because the computer tells him all is well! The chap next door would be capable of treating you as it seems we are all the same. All the ‘prescribed’ tests and answers are standardised and your ‘consultation’ actually took place before you come through the door.
Re thyroid, yes naturopathic Drs treat according to symptoms (my own said very simply said slowly up your dose by a small amount until you feel well then stabilise. He said that regardless of any inaccurate test, if you feel well, you ARE well). Compare that with the way allopathic Drs treat. ' We will test your TSH from time to time and as long as you are within range, we will tell YOU when you are well and cut your medication as we see fit' . . . . . if you still complain, 'have some anti depressants! if your cholesterol is still high (due to inadequate thyroid treatment) 'have some statins', if you have heartburn or digestion problems (due to inadequate thyroid treatment) 'have some Omeprazole' . . . . . . . . i could go on forever with this . . . . . . the main problem is that everything that is prescribed often causes side effects as long as your arm and vitamin and mineral depletion - eventually you end up on medications for side effects of other medications for side effects of other medications etc etc. Polypharmacy.
Absolutely spot on !
Well said.
Some of us have a high tsh, but no other sysmptoms, T3 & T4 in correct range.
OMG. Am I reading this correctly. Can’t be. You mean that they are saying as long as your TSH I u see 20 you are “ok”. And won’t be treated. These people should be shot .. Right now my TSH is at 3.61 and I’m a mess. You’re right. Everything comes down to money.
It should read as long as your TSH is below 20 etc.
I'm in the US. At that period of time (and again in the 2000's, with the same result) though many endocrinologists agreed with treating TSH if 3 or over, it was something that never took root, so to speak. Insurance companies unanimously gave a big thumbs down (after probably suffering something akin to an apoplectic fit, I imagine.) So, it was quickly relegated to the footnotes of history. It was only recognized as a "recommendation" by the AACE. Insurance companies made sure of that:/ So, doctors followed (and most still do) the old standards.
Thyroid treatment in this country, I'm sad to say, was an abomination then and remains so today..... But, you can get a psychiatric/mental health diagnosis (whether you are shopping for one or not) without having to say nary a word.... those types of meds are prescribed and handed out in this country like candy, especially to females. This country is also big on denying Rx pain relief to people who truly require the meds, and that have always taken as directed. Their pain and suffering ignored and undertreated, while the addicts continue to obtain any illicit drug of their choosing illegally. Such a horrendous state of affairs.😣
.... Another fabricated crisis where compliant patients (by design) are caught in the cross hairs.....
I agree - I’ve had a doctor try to put me on anti-depressants instead of a pain medication that I needed. I’m in the US too
Hi Cats,
Just thought I would mention to you that certain anti depressants in low doses are very effective for pain relief. For example, I take 5 mg of amitryptiline for my back pain and it works wonders without affecting anything else . It is 1/8 the normal starting dose of the medication, just to give you context, so no anti depressive effects. These drugs are often used off label for chronic pain and in some patients, work better than the traditional pain meds. I am in Canada. But the guidelines across the border with the US are very similar.
This does not mean by the way , that you shouldn’t get an opioid if you need it! I have to take those too - and no apologies to anyone about it! This madness about legitimate pain meds not being prescribed is just wrong. And I am sorry to hear that you are having pain issues. I’ve lived with chronic back pain for 22 years and I know how you feel.
Hope you feel better soon. All the best and good wishes your way today.
Hi!
Thanks for your message! I have heard that about pain relief from amitryptiline but had not talked with anyone who has used it for that until you wrote! I am glad to hear that it is effective and that it’s a smaller dose. I have other serious medical issues so I’m actually trying to reduce the # of meds I’m required to take as I was diagnosed with liver disease in May 2018 (NASH). It seems the older I get, the more joints that hurt! I deal with low back pain, hip pain, arthritis in knees and ankles (from having broken both ankles previously). I do try and avoid pain meds now because of the liver, but sleep is difficult. That’s one reason it annoys me that my doctor does not want to refill Xanax. I take it at bedtime a couple nights a week so that I can get a decent night of sleep for a change.
What part of Canada do you live in? I used to live in Northern Minnesota close to the Canadian border, and we frequently went camping in Canada (Thunder Bay). I now live in Arizona and my winter visitor neighbors who bought the house next door are from Vancouver. 😊 They aren’t here at this time of year. We are currently having high temperatures around 112, and it will get hotter in days to come. I don’t blame them for leaving!
Thanks for letting me know that the amitriptyline works for pain!
So glad I could help! And, very sorry to hear about your other health issues. I really understand why you want to get off meds - it will help your liver as most drugs are metabolized there.
My doctor originally prescribed 12 mg which is already half the starting dose - and I was a zombie - so I cut it back to 1/2 of that and I found that it worked with no side effects at all, and I am very sensitive to meds. I play with the dosage of some meds because I have strange reactions sometimes.
If i take ami at night, I sleep like a baby because it has sedating effects as well. It may help with your sleep issues too. I’m sorry your doc won’t give you your Xanax - it’s a pity. It really takes the edge off and lets you sleep. Some docs don’t get it -if you don’t sleep you have more pain because your body doesn’t get a break from the pain cycle. UGH!
Best wishes to you!
I live in Eastern Canada BTW- and we have awful weather right now - rain and rain - but next week is supposed to be beautiful!
Elena, here in Gods country it is lovely. We haven’t had rain much at all this whole year. Of course we will pay the price by forest fires and watering restrictions.
It's true that Amitriptyline (Elavil) is used for quite a few things. I took it along with Corgard (old school blood pressure med) to control intractable migraines. It worked like a charm for ten years, and then stopped. Nothing has ever worked that well since. I can't say it helped with my other pain, but I know it works well for others. It can be very drying, so if you have Sjogren's symptoms you may need to double up on eye drops and saline nasal mist.
During those ten years, I got the best sleep of my life. I have a very high tolerance to any type of pain med or sedative. I always require stronger doses. But, I literally had to be standing by the bed when I took the Corgard/Amitriptyline combo. It always hit my system very fast and I would drop right where I stood. 🤣....So, even if it didn't help the pain perse, though I hope it will, it should certainly be able to help you get some restorative, healing sleep. It's definitely worth a shot.
Another bonus is that it's an old school, first generation (1960's) antihistamine. They are still some of the most potent and safest on the market. It's fortunate that many of the older, safer drugs are still available. Amitriptyline is also very affordable.
All the best.😊
How right you are! Some of the old meds were really best in class and worked very well. You’re lucky that the ami worked for your migraines - it’s great for my back pain but in higher doses actually gives me debilitating headaches. Who knew?
I’m always amazed at how different we are when it comes to medications- one size does not fit all. Have a great day and best wishes to you.
Absolutely!! Just because a med is new doesn't, by any standard, mean it's better or safer. Generally, it's the opposite.
Oddly enough, I tried Amitriptyline again a few years back and didn't respond well to it at all. Just goes to show how everything changes.
Hope you have a great day,too.😊
You are so right! When I got anxious after them lowering my Synthroid by 50 mcg I was immediately given antidepressants which surprise, only made me worse. My GP flat out refuses to increase it so I have now turned to a naturopath. We’ll see how being put on NDT helps me.
Oh, yes....the old give the hysterical/hypochondriac (female) the 25 mcg just to shut her up (in the US, at least). Keep her on that 25 mcg for perpetuity (ignore all of her prattle). Meanwhile, pump her full of the neverending list of the latest and greatest psychotropics. "She'll run out of complaints, before we run out of antidepressants."😤...Haha...that is a sad, but apt slogan for thyroid treatment in this country.
I do much better on dessicated thyroid. Hope you will, too.😊
Hi there
Where in the states are you. Just curious. I’m in Vancouver. The Canadian one.
I’m glad to hear that you are doing better on NDT. I need to hear more people saying this so I get encouraged. I get so down with all this crap. I’m just starting so I am in a very low dose. 45 mg so far. At this rate I’ll be hypo again. I was on 75 Synthroid.
The drs here push antidepressants too. Money is behind it all. I’m just reading the book Stop the Thyroid Madness. Have you read it? I got it from the library but I should buy a copy and give it to my GP. It is a big beyond me at times but some chapters are easy and it’s very informative. It also makes you want to tear your hair out or scream.
Hope you continue to stay well.
Hi,
I have read parts of it, but not the whole thing. As for dosing, it takes time, but you will get there. Keeping notes on how you're feeling on each dose is helpful. Be sure to keep your nutrient levels up. As for selenium, I take selenomethionine 200 mcg daily, among others. [Brazil nuts are delicious, my favorite actually, but the soil they're grown in determines their selenium content. It's too critical a nutrient to really not know the specific content, in my opinion.]
I know how frustrating it can be, but hang in there, better days will come.
I live in the Southeast, by the way.
Hope you're feeling your chipper self soon.😊
Pretty good. Got straight to the point and covered all bases. I know I am always saying this but please note that they mentioned Selenium for the sequence of events to work. I am always saying eat a couple of Brazil nuts a day to get your Selenium - and here I am saying that again.
Here is someone who hadn’t heard you say about the nuts before so keep saying it lol. Does it really work or do you still need supplements?
Sorry about the delay, it was bedtime before I noticed your post. T4 and T3 are called selenoenzymes. Ensyme is another word for Catalyst - mysterious things which don't do much themselves but they cause other reactions to happen. The reaction we want is for T4 to drop an iodine molecule and become T3 and the catalyst for this to happen is Selenium (Se). Like anything else, do not supplement unless you are deficient. Now I have this "feeling" that we should, whenever possible, get our metals (and pseudo metals) from our food rather than a pill and the food to get Selenium from is Brazil nuts. Just two a day will give you all the selenium you need. The reason for this "feeling" is that it's easier to overdose on a pill than it is on food, your body will tell you to stop eating things when it has had enough, or you will just not feel like eating it. Metals are tricky since any excess can hang around in your organs - your brain being the last place you want metal accumulation.
Now, many people will say that due to soil depletion you may not get much Se from the nut you are buying and the way to judge is to eat two Brazil nuts per day for about a month (maybe even two weeks) then get a blood test. If you happen to have dropped on a bad source then either up the number of nuts you eat per day or go to another brand. Before I even knew about depleted sources I ate nuts from perfectly random sources and never had that problem. I even buy them off the Internet now (Nuts.com) and my Selenium is in the upper half of the range.
Now, for completeness, you might be interested to know that a couple of Brazil nuts also give you a daily requirement for Magnesium, a small handful of Cashews supply a d.r. of Zinc and Iron and a small handful of Almonds supplies you with Copper. To be honest, I don't think you should rely upon Cashews for iron, that's a hard one. I do take an iron pill since I have a hard time keeping my ferritin up and Cashews don't do it for me.
So there you are but do get a blood test first so that you do not push your levels too high, and that goes for everything.
Thanks so much for replying. I have made a list of everything I want my GP to request. All the usual things they say on this site. Can you buy peeled Brazil nuts. I haven’t had them I was a kid because they are so hard to get out of the shell.
Right now I’m working on getting my NDT regulated. I’m so below what I was taking in Synthroid but know I need to go slow. I was on 75 Levo but now am only taking the equivalent of 45. I have anxiety and I’m sure that is one result of being hypo.
What are you taking and are you well? I’m determined to get better but it’s a long hard road. I’ve been beyond crummy for five years now when my dose was lowered from 125 to 75. This in breast cancer diagnosed two years ago this month and you can understand why I am sick of being sick.
Have a good weekend.
Sheila
OMG, yes, get the "peeled" , roasted (and, for me, salted) variety. Cracking Brazil nuts will put you off after day one. I noticed you are in Canada, Nuts.com operate out of the NE US and I am sure they would sell to Canada, it's about $10 US for a big bag.
I am on Armour NDT and I am very well now (~6 years). It was a struggle to get on the right medication and on the right dose, I spent about 5 years battling all of the things you read on this forum, but it sounds as if you are on the right track, you are eager to learn and you are very sensitive to how meds and their doses affect you. Keep that up and you will get there. Sadly we have to experiment and go against what our doctors say, that is a hard and scary thing to do. It was my idea to switch to NDT and after I had acquired it I was scared to death to take the pills (it being MY idea) - but I did (I went cold turkey) and I felt well within 20 minutes (after a bloody 5 year struggle!). My doc says take 1.25 grains, I tried that, it wasn't enough so I upped it without telling him to 1.5 grains and we have this arrangement now, he prescribes 1.25 but doesn't count when I go for a refill. He goes by TSH, I go by how I feel.
I am very sorry to here about the breast cancer diagnosis, that is a lot to contend with.
I had visions of spending hours cracking those darn nuts. One of my childhood memories is of hours doing that. I was raised though in the era where they were called a different name. If you are older you will know what I mean. How awful!!!
My GP wouldn’t even consider prescribing NDT so I am now seeing a naturopath who will.
I laughed at your little arrangement with your dr lol. I upped mine today to 60 and didn’t tell either.
Oh boy, you've got my imagination going now. I am old but I don't know what the old name for Brazil nuts was. Give me a clue or PM me if its too awful!
Haha. I knew you were going to say this. I’ll pm now.
Hi this book looks so informative
would like to source a copy to buy so where did you find it?
Thanks
At my local library. I didnt take it out at time and when I went back it wasn't there and librarian couldnt find it on her system. ☹️ She will keep looking.
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