Hashimoto's.. Stupid question?? How does taking thyroid meds when we ourselves are destroying our owns thyroid gland, make our bodies react

[Poppy_the_cat]

Ok, so our autoimmune response is severe enough to trigger the total annihilation of our thyroid... Our Immune system ranges our body, mistakenly looking for and identifying thyroid tissue in order to kill it for considering it to be a threat....

So, how do our bodies cope with having Thyroid meds flooding our system??

Obviously without meds we just can't exist. It's as simple as that. I know for having had my meds get lost in transit during one of our snow episodes here in the UK, I was without for 10 days and I rapidly went down hill without a doubt...

So my question is how does our body cope with the daily onslaught of thyroid meds if it is up in arms against our Thyroid gland tissue anyway??

😕

Poppy...the pondering 🐈!

[jimh111]

The antibodies mistake the thyroid for a pathogenic invader, they are antibodies against thyroid tissue, not thyroid hormone. The anitbodies usually die away a year or two after the thyroid is gone. It is thought that NDT may aggravate antibodies because NDT is thyroid tissue.

[Poppy_the_cat in reply to jimh111]

Thank-you for explaining, very clearly if I might add...

However, for being alarmingly intolerant of Levothyroxine, not able to tolerate NDT Porcine Armour thyroid either, I can only take Bovine Thyroid meds....so I don't have a choice.

Thank you.

Poppy the Cat

[greygoose in reply to Poppy_the_cat]

Have you tried T3?

[Poppy_the_cat in reply to greygoose]

No, I have not... It seems you are you suggesting I should try it as an alternative based on what you have explained, I see the logic.

How would I establish a correct dose please. Any advice much welcomed.

😃

[greygoose in reply to Poppy_the_cat]

It depends on your present dose. And how much T4 and T3 are in the bovine NDT you are taking.

[Poppy_the_cat in reply to greygoose]

I shall investigate the proportions/ratio and ask for your further advice if I may- many thanks, very much appreciated.

Poppy 😃

[greygoose in reply to Poppy_the_cat]

You're welcome.

[Helena877 in reply to jimh111]

jimh111 Thank you for clearing up something I have wondered about for a while.

Often used to see things about NDT not being suitable for Hashimotos sufferers but no explaination why was ever given. I understand the reasoning now....

[jimh111]

Just not to mislead. It is thought NDT might aggravate autoimmune antibodies, I don't know of solid evidence but I haven't really looked for it. I don't want to give an impression of certainty.

[littlemo76]

I thought gluten or diet was what triggers autoimmune antibodies? Since going gluten free i have reduced antibodies. Also switched from t4 t3 to NDT??

[Phoenix605 in reply to littlemo76]

From what I understand, the protein in gluten, gliadin, is apparently close enough in structure to thyroid proteins that it can be mistaken and provoke an antibody response, speeding up destruction of the thyroid

[Poppy_the_cat in reply to Phoenix605]

I understand that up to date thinking even suggests that issues with leaky gut permeability actually provokes Hashimoto's into being. From my own experience, I believe this to be the case as a root cause...

[Phoenix605]

Maybe its a case of thyroid proteins being close enough to gliadin rather than the otherway round that starts it off??

[Girlscout2]

You take suppressive doses of hormones so it shuts down your own thyroid and the meds take over. The STTM page on hashis explain this. I wouldn't recommend that any woman takes T3 only, you need T4 for all sorts, mood, hair, hormones. T3 only very hard on the body. NDT does not aggravate antibodies if YOU TAKE ENOUGH OF IT. I had thyroid cancer, antibodies are a big deal for me, and mine have been zero in the years I've been on NDT, including my Tg.

[Poppy_the_cat in reply to Girlscout2]

Thinking about it, prior to the blanket introduction of Levothyroxine, thyroid problems were treated with NDT and people responded well on it... its not for nothing that ancient Chinese medicine called NDT 'The Youth Drug' which was prescribed for the elderly....

[Girlscout2 in reply to Poppy_the_cat]

Exactly, the antibodies thing is a bit of a scare tactic by doctors.

[Girlscout2 in reply to Poppy_the_cat]

Doctors I've asked have said, 'in theory it's possible, in all my years of practice, I've never seen it'

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Girlscout2]

Are there any studies that show what T4 does other than converting into T3?

[jimh111 in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

T4 has slight action directly on thyroid hormone receptors and has a role in bone metabolism. I think its role is small as for some time I was on L-T3 with very low fT4 levels and did not notice missing T4. Perhaps it has a minor long term role.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to jimh111]

If it is just receptors perhaps that's why I haven't missed it either as I have a genetic problem with TH receptors, so they probably don't work right anyway. I feel better with lower free T4.

[Girlscout2 in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

There's a really good book and website called Tired Thyroid by Barbara S Lougheed that explains it tiredthyroid.com/rt3-6.html

[Girlscout2 in reply to jimh111]

But you are male. Not female. For females, T3 only is really bad news.

[jimh111 in reply to Girlscout2]

Thyroid hormone works the same way in male and female. T4 is virtually inactive and is converted to T3 in both sexes.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Girlscout2]

Evidence? Studies? I'm not male and I've been fine on T3 only. But my thyroid is great - it's the organs further up the chain that have the problems, so they don't tell my thyroid to produce any hormones.

[Girlscout2 in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

T3 will increase your sex hormone binding globulin. tiredthyroid.com/rt3.html I was referring to Jim who I assume is male

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Girlscout2]

Well, I have problem with all hormones except testosterone which is near top of range for a woman (and did before T3) so I don't think it's made much difference. But my problems are with pituitary and hypothalamus so I might not react like people with primary hypo.

[Girlscout2 in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Also tiredthyroid.com/rt3-7.html It's worth getting the book too.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Girlscout2]

I know I feel worse mood-wise with higher free T4 and I've always been crap at maths since childhood. Assumes that you can convert well, too: "As stated earlier, with ample T4, the brain can create the optimal amount of T3 it needs with the appropriate deiodinase enzymes. " However, I do have mild aphasia so maybe there is something in it.

So, do I feel depressed and remember all my nouns, or feel happy and have to describe them?

I would also be wary of studies submitted for doctorates as in many cases (I do a lot of dissertation editing), the students are pushed towards certain conclusions and methods of working that their supervisors like and that reflect the current status quo (funding?) - you have to be very, very brave to buck the trend.