Ords throiditis

[minniemuffinmoo]

Hi, can anyone tell me how I would go about finding out if I have Ords thyroiditis? Dx in 2014 with autoimmune thyroiditis but never had a goiter. Think I was classified as subclinical. My antibodies were elevated & my Tsh was 14. I did have symptoms though which is why I went Drs in first place. Is Ords a proven version of thyroiditis & does that mean I am less likely to get nodules? Thanks.

[humanbean]

My simplistic (and quite possibly wrong) understanding of Ord's Thyroiditis and Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and the difference between the two :

Ord's Thyroiditis : Thyroid gets attacked by the immune system and the thyroid shrivels.

Hashimoto's Thyroiditis : Thyroid gets attacked by the immune system and the thyroid swells, often producing a noticeable goitre.

In both cases there will be thyroid antibodies that may be detected in blood tests. Poor old Mr Ord's work has been largely forgotten, and instead Ord's and Hashi's have usually been conflated and are just referred to as Hashi's.

Just in case it isn't obvious, I should point out that I am not medically trained!

Edited to add : I think the proper way of telling these two conditions apart is to use ultrasound or other scanning methods to check the condition of the thyroid.

[minniemuffinmoo in reply to humanbean]

That is brilliant! Thank you very much. The best explanation that I could have hoped for. I would love to know if, as I suspect, it is Ords.

Thank you!

[humanbean in reply to minniemuffinmoo]

I added a bit to the end of my post, don't know if you read my post before or after the edit.

[minniemuffinmoo in reply to humanbean]

Saw the edited bit - 👍

[helvella Administrator in reply to humanbean]

That is fairly much how I see it.

But there is a stronger prevalence of the non--goitrous form in northern Europe (including the UK).

It has been suggested that sometimes the goitre is simply missed.

[minniemuffinmoo in reply to helvella]

Thank you helvella 😉

[Clutter]

Minniemuffinmoo,

If you had elevated thyroid peroxidase (TPOab) or thyroglobulin (TgAb) antibodies you have autoimmune thyroiditis. Ordes used to be described as atrophic thyroiditis and Hashimoto's as autoimmune thyroiditis with goitre. More recently it is accepted that Hashimoto's can be atrophic and with or without goitre and most autoimmune hypothyroid thyroiditis is simply described as Hashimoto's.

google.co.uk/search?q=Ords+...

If TSH was 14 at diagnosis you were overtly hypothyroid even though T4 and T3 may have been within range. Subclinical hypothyroidism is TSH 5-10 with T4 and T3 in range.

[minniemuffinmoo in reply to Clutter]

Thank you Clutter. Another excellent answer. I do believe mine is Ord's & my thyroid is atrophying.

[Clutter in reply to minniemuffinmoo]

minniemuffinmoo,

Well repeated Hashimoto's attacks atrophy the thyroid when the lymphocytes infiltrate the thyroid gland destroying cells.

[Hidden in reply to minniemuffinmoo]

minniemuffinmoo A Danish study into the incidence of iodine, & associated thyroid disease, also considered the issue of primary overt autoimmune hypothyroidism being separated into primary idiopathic hypothyroidism with thyroid atrophy (Ord’s disease), and hypothyroidism with goitre (Hashimoto’s disease). It concluded that hypothyroid cases with thyroid atrophy and goiter are only extremes within a single pattern of distribution and do not represent separate disorders; such that the combined term Ord-Hashimoto’s disease as proposed by TF Davies in 2003 may therefore be more appropriate.

What makes you think your thyroid is undergoing atrophy? When I had an ultrasound of my thyroid 9 years ago, the measurements showed that it had been undergoing atrophy to the point that the right side was smaller than a child's, and the left side was smaller still. I assume it continued dying off thereafter; but neither in the previous 30 years nor during the subsequent 9, have I been aware of anything at all going on in this regards- other than simply being hypothyroid.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

You did have symptoms? Or you do still

Essential to test TSH, FT4 and FT3

Essential to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12. Always get actual results and ranges. Post results when you have them, members can advise

Low vitamin levels stop Thyroid hormone working

Post results and ranges if you have them

Poor gut function can lead leaky gut (literally holes in gut wall) this can cause food intolerances. Most common by far is gluten

According to Izabella Wentz the Thyroid Pharmacist approx 5% with Hashimoto's are coeliac, but over 80% find gluten free diet helps significantly. Either due to direct gluten intolerance (no test available) or due to leaky gut and gluten causing molecular mimicry (see Amy Myers link)

But don't be surprised that GP or endo never mention gut, gluten or low vitamins. Hashimoto's is very poorly understood

All thyroid tests should be done as early as possible in morning and fasting. This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results

[minniemuffinmoo]

Some useful information, thanks. I have yet to take the gluten-free leap. It seems a mountain too big for me to climb right now.

I am also in perimenopause, so hard to differentiate between the 2 as they do share similar symptoms.

My symptoms are Irregular periods (which was initial symptom that led to the hashi's dx) brain fog, poor memory, night sweats, adult-onset acne (now under control) & other symptoms. So, as you see, its hard to tell whats what!

[SilverAvocado in reply to minniemuffinmoo]

Minniemuffinmoo, Are you having any treatment for your condition? 14 is a pretty sizeable TSH.

In terms of Ord's or Hashimoto's, a lot of this is just quibbling about names. A doctor will usually refuse to use either name, and will at best call it autoimmune thyroiditis, and at worst never test for antibodies, and just say you're hypothyroid. For them it doesn't matter about antibodies, as they will give the same treatment whatever.

Generally an enormous percentage of adult hypo patients will have antibodies, well over 90%,although again doctors will suggest it's something rare. In patient communities Hashimoto's is used to cover both variants, and if you have a positive antibody test you can follow the advice you read about Hashi's. If you haven't had an anti body test, hassle the GP, or get a mail order finger prick test yourself, the ThyroidUK website tells you how.

[Bobby25 in reply to minniemuffinmoo]

You’re basically describing me. I can see this post was a few years ago . What helped you get thru it?

[helvella Administrator in reply to Bobby25]

You might have missed that you have replied to a six-year-old reply/post.

Nothing wrong in doing so but as time goes by, there is less chance of a reply. And your reply will likely be missed by most currently active members. And it's best for you to be aware of one reason for no replies!