Strange panic attacks...?

[loobilou]

I dont know if this is the relevant place for this but I thought I'd give it a go.

Every so often I have a sense of panic that begins in my stomach and ends, minutes later, with tinging in my fingers. It can happen daily, sometimes two or 3 times a day but it comes from absolutely nowhere. I can be doing pilates, relaxing, watching tv, working out, and not having any negative or worrying thoughts whatsoever. I went through a phase of it happening around 8.30 every evening for a few weeks. It doesnt appear to be food or drink related.

I can be anxious at times, though usually as a result of something specific (a worry, thought, fear etc) and occasional panic attacks, but this feeling in my stomach comes from absolutely nowhere yet more often than not will end in a sense of panic. It's bizarre! Anyone with any idea of experience of this? And dont scare me into panic mode please! 😀

[Spareribs]

How's your iron & B12 levels?

[loobilou in reply to Spareribs]

Thank you Spareribs ,funnily enough I'm just waiting for the results of a blood test via Thriva, to check those very things, and done others too.

[Spareribs in reply to loobilou]

hope you feel better soon - I just take a deep breath & swear, not again!

but not so bad now with spontaneous high iron levels, but still low B12

always worth testing and keeping an eye on irons x

I forgot to say GPs said it was "anxiety" - before and after my PT op

(partial thyroidectomy) - but it can happen to anyone & it's flippin' scary!

[loobilou in reply to Spareribs]

Thank you! I feel ok when it's over, and it's less than a minute or two, and I try and breath and relax. But there's always that worry that it's the beginning of a heart attack or something 🤤x

[Spareribs in reply to loobilou]

Yes it does feel like it - try running cold water over your wrists, or 'bearing down' - you know, like going for a no 2- or holding your nose & blowing like if you're on an aeroplane sorts it.

(perhaps I should change my name to "old wife tells tales" !

but actually those mechanisms work...)

[loobilou in reply to Spareribs]

Ha! Yes, I do often end up in the loo, before remembering elvis died on the loo with a heart attack! (did I mention I can tend towards anxiety?!) I have rescue remedy in there to assist! I can feel the panic move away, it's quite bizarre and because it comes from nowhere I can't help feel it's a physical thing rather than emotional.

[Spareribs in reply to loobilou]

I'd have said the same a while back! I had beta blockers in me handbag in case (but took Kalms instead) & then I realised I had a Thyroid problem - & thought one problem at a time please.

It's not in your head it's in your neck

[loobilou in reply to Spareribs]

Interesting, thank you 😊x

[Spareribs in reply to loobilou]

just trying to take the panic out of the attack

It may still happen but next time you can try & combat it (as you say deep breathing helps)

- my daughter has SVTs, also scary & uses coping mechanisms successfully

Jane x

[loobilou in reply to Spareribs]

Thanks again. I should be getting the relevant supplements in a day or two which hopefully will help, along with all the others that my nutritionist suggested.

I was just reading your profile, fascinating and very informative. I'll look at the links properly tomorrow. Thanks again, Lou x

[Burlingham in reply to Spareribs]

Just what I was like before being diagnosed with pernicious anemia and some other sort of anemia to do with ferritin levels

[Batty1]

Hi loobilou,

Yes, I had off and on severe panic attacks for 3 yrs for no reason and even after repeated visits to doctors and specialist (tsh blood test was always normal) I was finally diagnoised with pap cancer and panic attacks stopped after thyroidectomy.

Not to say you could have pap cancer I also have a few autoimmune diseases that could be behind my cancer.

Have you had thyroid test done?

[loobilou]

Thanks @Batty1, I have had a thyroid test done, with differing results depending on where it was done! I appear to be low in iodine and T3 and 4 so am now getting support for that. Not going to look into pap cancer as my panic attacks with become severe! Thanks again

[Kell-E]

I have experienced exactly what you describe. Often before TT, not once in the 6 years since.

I had a huge nodule and a few little ones. I wonder what they were making...

[loobilou in reply to Kell-E]

What's TT? (I have a horrible feeling I'm going to end up with something to really feel anxious about!) Thanks Kell-E

[Kell-E in reply to loobilou]

Sorry, TT is total thyroidectomy. They thought my nodule might be cancerous, but it was not. Good riddance anyway

[loobilou in reply to Kell-E]

Oh lordy! Good riddance indeed!

[Kell-E in reply to loobilou]

Seriously though, those little panic attacks only lasted maybe 10 seconds or so, but it was really weird. It could have been the nodules/thyroid or maybe my absorption/vitamin levels improved after the thyroidectomy.

[loobilou in reply to Kell-E]

Very weird but glad you have it all sorted now.

[Kell-E in reply to loobilou]

Hope you get yours figured out!

[Batty1 in reply to Kell-E]

They were making a mess 😁

[Bobbiesgirl54]

Hi there, i think this is what i used to experience. I think you may have adrenal fatigue. V often goes hand in hand with hypothyroid patients - is that you?? You pref. should get a salova adrenal test if poss. Bloods dont show such accurate readings. Things to try: a good adrenal supplement or firstly see if eating small snack containing some protein helps. Its nothing to worry about, but very disconcerting. Try not to sieze up when it happens-breath through it calmly. Also look ip adrenal fatigue/burnt out adrenals. Good luck.

[loobilou in reply to Bobbiesgirl54]

Hi Bobbiesgirl54 , thank you! I did have a cortisol saliva test recently which showed my cortisol was high. I'm now on an adrenal supplement but apparently don't have adrenal fatigue. I was very easily stressed at the slightest thing but seem to be much calmer these days. I'm all peace and love now, you know?! 😉

[Rmichelle]

Panic attacks are the pits!! I am hyperthyroid so comes hand in hand wirh being hyper and i used to have to feel jittery all day and around 7.30 to 8.30 in the evening i would get a massive panic attack- wasnt thinking anything it would just come.ive never been a worrier or suffered anything like this before its just the illness! But i have not had one in 2 monrhs now has as meds for thyroid seems to be doing their work but on some days i still feel a bit jittery but it passes. They really are nasty things and good ridance to them. I too have thyroid nodules like mentioned by scottbnk but mine are only 5mm but say inkeeping with hashimotos disease which i do have. Good luck and im not going to say try and relax because it doesnt work especially if its medical connected.x😊

[loobilou in reply to Rmichelle]

Thanks Rmichelle , oh yes, I had that jittery feeling for the slightest reason, or no reason! I have always been somewhat of a worrier and anxious but that's pretty well calmed down so these coming out of the blue seem so bizzare. Glad your meds seem to be doing the trick. Long may it last! x

[Kell-E in reply to Rmichelle]

Rmichelle, I had 3 small nodules and one the size of a ping pong ball. The surgeon said my thyroid looked like I had Hashimoto's even though TPO came back negative.

[Rmichelle in reply to Kell-E]

Hi there scottbnk, my tpo antibodies came back high 980 lab range 0.to 35. I also have celiac disease. Your nodules the size of a golfball wow. Mine are only 5mm and some more well defined one but i will discuss further with endo on 5 dec, been told they wont biopsy if they are smaller than 1cm as they cant get the needle through-dont know how true that is.

[Kell-E in reply to Rmichelle]

They had a difficult time trying to biopsy the small ones. It was ultrasound guided, but they still could not get the needle where they wanted. The big one came back as maybe having some cancer characteristics. They did a total thyroidectomy and it wasn't cancer. I'm glad they were worried about cancer because they never would have removed my thyroid otherwise because my 'numbers' were always normal.

[Rmichelle in reply to Kell-E]

Glad it wasnt cancer for you, even though its quite successful to treat so ive heard. Do you know the size of your smaller nodules? I really dont think they will do anything with mine, i think they will leave for another 6 monrhs and then scan again probably. I knew i had them because i had a irritated cough and could feel them and also think they irritate the windpipe making you breathless, surely wirh your bigger nodule this must have affected your windpipe or esphagos( dont think i have spelt that right)

[Kell-E in reply to Rmichelle]

I just ran across the pathology report the other day. My small nodules were 12mm, 5mm, and 5mm. It looks like they only biopsied the 12mm one on that side. The other side had the big one, 34mm. And no, I never felt it. Neither did any doctor until I demanded to go to an endo because I felt cold and tired. He felt my neck and asked if anyone had ever mentioned the huge nodule. Ummm, nope. Oh, and the pathology report on the huge one was suspicious for Hurthle cell neoplasm. The worst one to treat. But it didn't end up being that. I read somewhere that Hashimoto's tends to produce Hurthle cell changes, so that makes sense.

[Rmichelle in reply to Kell-E]

Thanks scott really interesting info but i dont think they will do anything with mine. Sorry got another question but what have they done about 5mm ones or do you have to be re scanned in so long, interested to know? 😊

[Kell-E in reply to Rmichelle]

They removed the whole thyroid because of the cancer scare. I believe that they would have just monitored the small ones though.

[Rmichelle in reply to Kell-E]

Yes sorry scott you did say(brain fog) well thankyou for your info and glad you are thyroid free!! 😊

[HLAB35]

Sounds familiar. It's not in your head - it's hard for you to manufacture the hormones to keep things in balance. For adrenals think B-vitamins - B5, B6 (in P-5-P) form ideally - take before lunch. Don't forget vitamin D - it's essential to have good levels of this for all hormonal issues. Look into methylation issues - the b12 you're taking that really helps you keep sharp and energetic in the day can cause feelings of hyperactivity later in the day and niacin seems to be the way around it for me. I take a low dose of (flushing) niacin in the evening with some gluten free oats, my magnesium, zinc and a menopause supplement and I'm very chilled. If I do this before 8.30 pm - I find it very easy to tire slowly and gently for bedtime. It's worth a try...

[loobilou in reply to HLAB35]

Thank you HLAB35 - I'm taking the B vitamins and B12 separately too, plus D. I've not looked into niacin . I take magnesium and 5HTP am and bedtime and I think that helps me sleep, and certainly seems to have balanced out my moods.... 😀

[Macgirl777 in reply to loobilou]

I can’t take 5 HTP. It gives me panic attacks within hours after taking it, even w/Xanax in my system.

[loobilou in reply to Macgirl777]

Oh that's a pity Macgirl777 , I think it's helped me

[HLAB35 in reply to loobilou]

Basically, your body converts some of its available l-tryptophan into 5 HTP which can then be converted to serotonin and eventually melatonin. 5 HTP cannot convert back into l-tryptophan though. Too much 5 HTP means your body is sort of forced to go down that route and in me that means oversleeping and feeling groggy..

Niacin is also converted from l-tryptophan in the liver and precious iron stores are used to do this... Interestingly, by taking niacin the body then realises it has enough niacin (it has to be niacin, not niacinamide) so will not bother trying to make niacin from l-tryptophan for a while ... so l-tryptophan can then be converted to 5-HTP, but only as much as is required, so you don't get the side effects that you may do from a 5-HTP supplement.

Niacin also has some bonus features - it increases stomach acid which makes magnesium absorption easier AND it helps in preserving iron stores. The benefits of niacin are really pretty good actually.

[HLAB35 in reply to Macgirl777]

Same here - not panic attacks though - more of a hangover feeling in the morning! It's probably because too much serotonin is actually a problem for some people, but in my case too much melatonin..

(Please refer to my reply below for a rough and ready explanation.) You'd probably be better off with niacin and magnesium like me.

[lotsoissues in reply to HLAB35]

ive been getting the hangover feeling too in the morning and wonder what it is?...any insight?

[HLAB35 in reply to lotsoissues]

Well, it's a while since I trialled 5HTP and gave up on it because I was getting that feeling. Valerian did something similar.

Look to your T3 levels as low T3 can also make you feel groggy.

[HLAB35 in reply to Macgirl777]

Just had time to look into it ... you're quite right....a serotonin overdose is actually quite a problem...

livestrong.com/article/1761...

Niacin, even at low doses, isn't without issues itself mostly because it increases stomach acid ... it should always be taken with food and should be avoided if you currently have a stomach ulcer. I think the effects are mitigated by taken Magnesium at the same time and eating something gloopy like porridge. The flush effect is tolerable for me and becomes less as you get used to it.

[loobilou in reply to HLAB35]

This is very interesting, thank you HLAB35 for that link. I had these stomach anxiety symptoms before taking 5-HTP, in fact before beginning any of these supplements as it was one of the symptoms I mentioned to the nutritionist the first time I saw her. As mentioned below, I do take 1 40mg Propranolol in the morning, but have been doing that for years, way before this weird symptom began. I may well stop taking it though.

[HLAB35 in reply to loobilou]

Just a thought and a total guess at that - if you're already on SSRI's for anxiety the addition of 5-HTP as well may mean you could be manufacturing too much serotonin..

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serot...

[loobilou in reply to HLAB35]

Thank you - no I'm not on SSRI's, though I do take Propranolol... wonder if that makes a difference?

[HLAB35 in reply to loobilou]

I honestly don't know from personal experience, but it'd be worth investigating... just found this...

'Propranolol is a serotonin 5-HT antagonist. However, it's no longer recommended for treatment since it may both lower blood pressure and decrease heart rate, causing shock in unstable patients.'

from here...

modernmedicine.com/modern-m...

[loobilou in reply to HLAB35]

Cripes! Unstable? Moi? Surely not!

Thanks 😀

[Katherine1234]

I have these too, but they normally start in the early hours of the morning and wake me from sleep, they are weird adrenalin rushes starting from the tummy area. I get them in the mornings sometimes too. They will make my heart race and I feel the tingling. I found out my thyroid and low B12 has taken down my cortisol levels and my body is relying on adrenalin. My blood pressure is low too and I can get low sugar attacks about 2 hours after I have eaten. Somehow it all seems to be related, not very pleasant :0(

[loobilou in reply to Katherine1234]

Katherine1234 , oh yes I had one wake me from sleep too! Bizarre and worrying too. Yes, like an adrenalin rush starting in the stomach. My cortisol is high though, unlike yours, and blood pressure high. Hope you get yours sorted x

[Katherine1234 in reply to loobilou]

I have a mixture of high and low cortisol Loobilou, mine is very low at night and the mornings, then late afternoon and evening when it should go lower it goes high :0( Loobilou have you tried transdermal magnesium for them and your high blood pressure? I do make sure I keep my magnesium levels way up. I have tried Thornes Adrenal Cortex too with some success. Although it has to be the Cortex the other ones contain adrenalin and I am running on that at the moment and do not need anymore! Also keeping my B12 high helps too. And I take plenty of vitamin C for the adrenals. I am still bed/couch bound at the moment but starting to feel a teeny tiny tad better at different times of the day. If you look on Dr Sarah Myhill website she gives loads of advice. xX

[loobilou in reply to Katherine1234]

Hi Katherine1234 , my cortisol showed as high in the morning and then getting lower throughout the day. I've not tried that particular adrenal supplement; I was recommended Adrenal Support from Cytoplan.

I've just had my test results back from the very efficient Thriva (I only sent the blood yesterday!) and my B12 is good (617.0 pmol/L) as are iron, cholesterol and vitamin d results (617.0 pmol/L)

Only ferritin is borderline (156.0 ug/L) none of which explains my weird panic attacks!

Oh and I do take Biofood Magnesium from Cytoplan; don't know if that's anything like your recommendation?

Thanks for the Dr Myhill recommendation - think I came across that a while back; will go there again 😊 x

[Katherine1234 in reply to loobilou]

I have to keep my B12 to a 1000 or higher....

[Rmichelle]

Sorry lobilou think ive hijacked your post a little with scottbnk. Hope you are ok with this.xx

[Kell-E in reply to Rmichelle]

Oh, yes, I guess we could take it somewhere else, lol...

[Rmichelle in reply to Kell-E]

Ha yes😊 never mind were done now.x

[SlowDragon Administrator]

It's a classic hypo symptom

thyroiduk.org/tuk/about_the...

Have you considered DIO2 gene test

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

[loobilou in reply to SlowDragon]

Thanks! I don't really have any of those symptoms other than breathlessness sometimes and a slightly raised bp, and a touch of anxiety!

[dashi2208]

the best thing for anxiety is hypnotherapy in my experience.

[anamnesis]

It sounds like you're on the right path and pretty self informed. I went through years of hypo then hyper, adrenal fatigue, extreme anxiety etc...The thing that helped THE most was starting meditation. Every physical ailment has an energetic counterpart and the fact that you say it exits your fingers is very good news. It is something leaving and balancing out.

[loobilou in reply to anamnesis]

Oh wow, @anamnesis, that's fascinating and made me feel quite oddly tearful! Thank you so much 🙂x

[loobilou]

One thing I just remembered is that I took just one Bimuno prebiotic recently (forgetting that I already take a probiotic supplement via my nutritionist) and had one of these anxiety/panic 'attacks' within an hour, and then a number of times throughout the day, possibly every hour or two until eventually in the evening I felt sick and almost was sick... I can only assume that the Bimuno must have been the cause, (though I dont know if the nausea was coincidental or not). Then I realised that when I’m breathing and focussing on my core (as in pilates when this has happened too) I wondered if this is an issue to do with my core – or my gut – which is an important area relating to our emotional health? No idea if this makes any sense…..?

[Batty1]

I had panic attacks for years before faulty thyroid was discovered.

[loobilou]

Mine have completely stopped after my last post! Bizarre. Ive no doubt they will return but their sudden absence makes them even more weird. But I don't care! 🙃

[loobilou]

And now they've begun again, 1 yesterday and 2 today 🙄