Reaction to tablet

Hi

This will sound extreme possibly?

I'm having 12.5 levo for nearly a week, felt extremely fatigued since yesterday afternoon and slept in chair for hours and through night, it's five am now, and have missed the 11pm dose reading side effects on sheet can see it elevated mood on day 4 particularly

Now have a deep hacky cough and cold like symptoms, although don't really feel ill, this isn't listed as side effect, unsure if connected has anyone had this odd reaction, and wondering what to do right now, also tinitus really vamped up and hearing affected, can pop ears, I have become quite tablet phobic these days

Any advice gratefully recieved

Thanks

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  • hi you should be fine, levo can leave you exhausted and immune deficient, thyroid problems can stop you attaining deep sleep and an immediate side effect may be that you are now able to finally sleep well, plus your immune system may be kicking in for the first time in a while; plus this is a drug - your body has to get used to it but maybe if this lasts you should go to your GP for a chat? Remember, hypothyroidism is a serious problem, side effects of not taking the drug may be worse than taking it in the long run, deficiency left me depressed with half a colon and 10 miscarriages then a total hysterectomy - and a few mental health issues. Don't take hypothyroidism lightly. If this drug doesn't work try another - for example a natural form. Get well xxx

  • It's not the tablets. Promise

    Do not stop taking the meds.

    Tiredness and tinnitus is the hypothyroidism the tablets are trying to fight

    The cold like is a cold

    Definitely not a side effect of levo. You need to take it. Things will only get worse if you stop.

    You need to take your levo and probably lots of vitamin supplements for the rest of your life, I suggest you deal with the tablet phobia as a matter of urgency.

  • Hi Jeppy, Seems like you've slept in the end which is a good thing. I too am on low dose, alternating between. 25 and 50mcg Levo. I haven't enough experience as I am still learning but like you, things seem to get worse on Levo. Will wait to see your replies..although I think it will likely be to check all your vitamin supplements are lined up and correct and that you are probably underdosed. I refer to thyroid books by Dr Barry Peatfield, Izabel last Wentz and Janie Bowthorpe. All good in different ways for information. I wish you well.

    M

  • Thankyou mb

    Good luck

    Iv always been a fixer and turned to natural, this after allopathic couldn't help my awful skin complaint and a homeopath did sort it out with a few pulsatilla 😊 Allopathic told me I was allergic to paperclip metal!!

    Because Iv had years of stress ( unsupported ) I know it's stress related that pushed me over but why can't it be reversed if adrenals get proper support which is in the thyroid pituatory loop, you would think rationally it could , there is always route cause as in Isabella Weltz video, frustrating to be in thus boat xx

  • Thanks. I had to ask as another post said she had cold symptoms, And I didn't used to be phobic it just happened after a few other unpleasant experiences ( an anti depressant)

    Because my levels not so bad and there is still a little voice in me wanting to believe doctors ( told 3 times over last five years that they couldn't treat me as its bad for heart to be treated when not needed) please understand this is very hard to follow but I'm doing it anyway, I did wonder if it's a filler you've talked about I saw my daughter briefly last night and she said i looked like I had hay fever ( which I used to have regularly years ago)

    I'm on such a diddy dose it's amazing to get these reactions from it, and it feels weird to be hyped up this way, because I think of things in the body in natural terms it's agaist the grain to think I'm surpressing this and that and then taking tablets to correct that etc It reads a bit of an emotional eternal rollercoaster

    Does anyone get balanced and stay that way or is it forever studying it and tweaking doses and feeling ill again, I know it's a mind set to take it all in, but because I have managed for many years and levels not bad it is hard, yes

    Thnx

  • Hello Jeppy

    Many people in my family are naturally anxious types and I think it's genetic. Unfortunately, in the past though, some have had more serious mental health issues too (probably down to undiagnosed deficiencies, I suspect b12.)

    I think you should stick with the dose you're on for now.. but add in some magnesium later in the day, split over a couple of doses (after lunch) and get your b12 levels, iron and folate and vitamin D checked (especially since you're succumbing to colds). A full panel of bloods is what's required really. Magnesium and zinc will also be in demand, especially now you're on levo.

    Anxiety can stem from inadequate folate, b12 and iron, also magnesium. You should hopefully notice a drop in stress levels with some magnesium. A lot of people on here like magnesium citrate - sometimes better taken as a drink. Other b vitamins that I have found to be helpful are B1, B5 and B6 as P-5-P (for addressing stress and weak adrenals); B2 for helping with iron absorption (if that's a problem - hence you should get that checked); omega fatty acids are essential for neurological health; magnesium, zinc and selenium for levo conversion.

    Also, never ignore gut health... low stomach acid causes a myriad of problems for us.. so taking ascorbic acid (vitamin c) with meals can help, or betaine hcl.

  • Thankyou I hope you get this ok

    I have different view really - yes it's about personality types for sure, but mynirational fear and worry is about knowing I've got something not right with me, and not having been able to fix it as sent away from doctors, my good natural state is positive, joyeous, inquiring mind, and fixing things

    I've not had a fair crack of whip from doctors as many many others

    My anx feelings are I'm sure a symptom of this

    I have my private bloods and on it with vitamins thanks, I'm unsure though about zinc, and hazy about k2' how do I know if I need it, I have magnesium spray I'm using hope this ok

    Is there a list of what people use, it would be very useful to have this as easy it to know

    I don't like coming on here a lot as I'm not in the right place yet and find it overwhelming

    Thnx a lot

  • The problem with magnesium spray is that you can actually overdose and feel very lethargic...oral route means you absorb what you need and the rest just comes out the other end! My husband (keen on sport) regularly takes soluble mag tablets in a drink when he's dehydrated - it's made the world of difference. It sounds like it should be the other way around with tablets and sprays, but actually using the spray gets into the blood unhindered. Magnesium drives a lot of functions in the body, but it needs B vitamins to work optimally (B6 being one of them). This is especially relevant in menstruating women and even more relevant for those of us going through 'the change'.

    I probably wouldn't worry about K2 just yet, unless you're mega-dosing vitamin D. Having good vitamin D levels is critical to success with all your endocrine functions, whereas vitamin K2 is a 'nice to have' once you've started to feel better and done a bit more research.

    Sorry about the information overload...it's right to be cautious.

    This list is relevant.. and pretty straightforward.

    thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/treatm...

  • Forgot to mention... take some zinc for that cold.. it'll also help with levo conversion.

    A friend recommended those zinc lozenges that also have vitamin c, propolis and riboflavin (B2) in them. They really worked for me too.

  • Can you take too much zinc, is it stored?

  • May be daft questions

    Does the Armour have T3 also in it?

    My T3 a bit low, if feeling well is all about the distribution of T3, then why take levo? Why not just T3?

  • Yes it does, which is why it suits some people better. Levo is very cheap to make which is why it is prescribed. Most people do well with levo or levo plus T3 as levo is a storage hormone and lasts for several days in the body while T3 exits much faster (so, as long as you can convert at least a bit) you will be better with some levo to tide you over the times when the t3 in the tablet runs out or if you forget a dose.

  • Excellent question; especially since you were started on such a low dose of T4 in the quest to raise your low T3. Doesn't really make a lot of sense because you first have to convert the T4 to T3 in order to raise your T3. If your own body is having trouble producing enough T4 and cannot efficiently convert it into T3, then taking T4 may not be the solution for you. It may be better for you to use T3.

    There is a T3 protocol designed by Dr. Denis Wilson of which may be of interest to you (and hopefully to your doctor as well).

    Dr. Wilson contends that some who are labeled hypothyroid are actually suffering from a low body temperature that impedes proper thyroid functions. It can be corrected by taking T3 only. After correction, the body returns to normal without the need for thyroid hormone medication. Mind you, not everyone is a candidate for this, but the fact that you were put on thyroid hormone due to your T3 being low and that the remedy was determined to be to start you on an extremely low dose of T4.

    Just another way to look at things. Knowledge is power. Something to look into and either rule out or investigate further.

    It wouldn't hurt to talk to your doctor about how you reacted to the very low dose of T4 and recommend he look over the possibility of starting you on low dose T3 Therapy instead. Dr. Denis Wilson has a protocol that your doctor can peruse and even discuss with Dr. Wilson himself.

    wilsonssyndrome.com/emanual...

  • Thankyou this is interesting

    But need to explain this, I got the prescription levo as I pointed out my weight gain, bidy hair loss which I think may be osteogenesis reduction, and viligi loss of pigment on foot, and anxiety, iritability,

    the doc only looks at the tsh and I explained about the 80 percent that were a 1.5. - I believe the high range we have here was out in place as it was unknowing that many in the survey had hypo undiagnosed symptoms

    Here you are not treated below tsh 8, I'm now a five, I was a three in 2010, since then i was caring for mum and other personal probs which again, vamped

    Just st wanted to say my bloods not that bad, conversion ok, ft3 just a little low

    A concern I have is, if you take levo, do the other numbers go all higgle pigged??? Does it take you down this road?

  • Thanks for the clarification, Jeppy. I understand.

    Your doctor gave you the Levo to placate you. He doesn't really think you are hypothyroid. Or perhaps he does but is held back by standard practice of waiting until your TSH is 8 and debilitating. We may live in different countries, but that standard practice concerning hypothyroidism is rampant equally in yours and mine. Really a shame.

    What I'm saying is that you no doubt have a lack of T3 that needs to be corrected. Over time, your TSH has risen. When you lack any T3, the body adjusts and takes it from a non-vital area to help maintain the correct functioning of organs and systems that are vital.

    In other words, to keep your heart pumping and your lungs working, the body will let your hair fall out if it has to in order to take T3 from there and give it to vital organs and systems. Vitiligo is a symptom of hypothyroidism for that very reason. The skin is the largest organ in the body, it can do without some of its T3 to help other vital organs.

    You are correct in that no one's TSH should ever be higher than 1.5 -- as anything higher is indicative of a break down in optimal thyroid function.

    What I'm saying is that you are hypothyroid and that it may take another protocol that differs from standard practice for you to get it resolved without worsening your current state of hypothyroidism.

    Until then, your body will continue to keep you going by taking T3 from other areas of the body. This is why the vitiligo has surfaced. Other problems, in time, will continue to surface.

    verywell.com/vitiligo-and-a...

    We no longer have to wait until doctor's "get it" as we get sicker and sicker in the meantime.

    There is no reason for you to get sicker as hypothyroidism will continue to manifest in your body. Doctors don't know everything because they are not taught everything. So we have to educate ourselves and figure out what it is we need.

    You are in the right place to get to know all your options.

    Healing Hugs to you!!

  • Thankyou so much for this, makes total sense!

    I'm fortunate then when I. Had psirosis in life during stressful times when things settles down all the skin repaired and allmpigment remained, this is what I had thought on some level that I had somehow recovered at that time, or enough for the time,

    I don't know where to go from here? Obviously what is best for health

    I will try to do in my head how I was in the care feee days,,,, mind set is so important with everything

    I need to somehow uplift adrenals ! Maybe homeopathic could help, the keniesiologist is helpful with this, it's all so expensive for sure

    Thanks again x

  • No doctors have a huge job, they do what they are instructed too

    When I was a teaching assistant I didn't know each subject for sure haha lol

  • ...if though the thing I need is ft3 around body, do I need levo or similar?

    I'm reading here the tsh number is not important! As long as the ft3 gets fed round body will this give you well being and well body?

  • Your body needs T3. But to get T3, there are three ways: T4 that is then converted to T3 (Levo which you tried but maybe you can stick with it and it will be fine eventually); taking T3 by way of NDT which includes both T4 and T3 in its natural form; or by taking pure T3 itself.

    If your reaction to Levo was due to a histamine issue and you find it is impossible to take, then perhaps an NDT product would serve you better. A very small dose of NDT (half a grain) to start. That would give you 18 mcg T4 and 4.5 mcg T3.

    However, if you have nutritional deficiencies that keep conversion from occurring, the small amount of T3 in the NDT will not be enough to help you until you correct the deficiencies. This is why it is so important to find out whether or not you have a lack of nutrients necessary for the conversion.

    TSH is important for indicating thyroid dysfunction (when used properly and then confirmed by additional testing). TSH becomes unimportant as an indicator for dosing thyroid hormone after the TSH has dropped to 1.5 TSH was never intended to be used to manage dosing for hypothyroid patients.

    It is most important how the patient feels from that point.

    Many of us feel better when TSH is suppressed. Doctors have much to learn about that.

    Hope this helps!

  • T h a n k y s o m u c h

    Getting picture now

    Ok I know what to do,

    First step

    il continue to get the vitamins up to optimimum and then have bloods redone, il be carrying on with this little levo a while longer to see if it settles in,

    Il work a bit on adrenals, I don't know how yet, keep diet good and clean, and gf

    Very helpful x

  • Good. Sounds like a plan. Start with optimizing vitamins (especially those for conversion). Glad you will stick with it for now. Ultimately, it can be of help to you.

    No gluten. That's a must. It will help you in many ways. I promise!! If you are not casein sensitive (milk protein) then removing dairy might not be necessary. I'd try removing gluten first and enjoy how much better you feel without it.

    Great start, Jeppy!!

    Healing Hugs!!

  • Star!!!!

    Have been gf since Jan and lost a stone, pleased with this as not had energy to exercise much and a go slow metabolism,

    It certainly helps, I'm eating quite clean, Told dairy ok but have considered this one, suppose you just have a little bit, is this better for you than more so to speak?

    And keeping sugar nil or trace, don't spike about anymore -

    B12 a bit low

    D low

    Iodine not done?

    Don't know about k2

    Iron ok

    Folate ok

    SO grateful!!!! Hugs back and BIG thankyou

    Thanks to all,myiu are amazing lot in this busy stressing hypo world we live in πŸŒžπŸŒžπŸ‘πŸŒ·πŸŒ½πŸ₯‘πŸ₯πŸ€’πŸ˜ŽπŸ‘πŸƒβ€β™€οΈπŸŒΈπŸŒ³πŸŒˆπŸ’™βœ…

  • So happy to be of help to you.

    With both B12 and D low, it is obvious you have a nutrient issue. See the article about Vitamin D below:

    bodyecology.com/articles/co...

    Please don't think being "within range" is good enough to facilitate thyroid hormone conversion. It is not. Your levels of nutrients need to be in the optimal range, not just "normal."

    You are on your way! Taking to this like a duck to water!! Hurrah!

    Proud of ya, Sister!

    Healing Hugs!

  • P.S. Staying completely away from refined sugar is the best thing you can do second to the staying gluten free!! Very proud of ya! People have no clue the inflammation they're actually eating! I know... doesn't even sound right. But it is! Say no to refined sugar of all kinds. Kudos to you!

    K2 is necessary if you are taking calcium supplements. It keeps calcium going where it should. It's not necessary for everyone. But those of us with absorption issues need all the help we can get!

    There are many differing takes on whether or not those with Hashimoto's or Grave's should or should not take iodine supplements. For me, I have no thyroid. There are parts of my body that need iodine and won't get it as I don't eat much seafood and I never use table salt (iodine laced but otherwise mineral free j-u-n-k). I use Himalayan Pink Sea Salt which has all its minerals intact.

    If I were you, i'd have my iodine levels checked just so you know where you are as you begin your journey to wellness.

    Healing Hugs!!

  • I put my readings below with ranges

    I'm confused as to whether I need levo at all or similar, or just to try get t3. If this is the good health factor?

    What is the point of the tsh or t4 if you just take ft3

    Is there something to know please anybody?

    Does the t4 matter if you take ft3?

    One thing for sure all this is driving me nuts lol

  • My t4 is 102. - 59 to 154

    My ft3 is 4.03. - 3 .10 to 6.80

    B12 was low

  • Do you have any other nutritional deficiencies besides B12 or were they checked? Was your iodine checked? What about your ferritin (iron) levels? You get the idea.

    Without adequate nutrients, conversion from T4 to T3 cannot take place. Since you are low in B12, I'd think it likely you are also low in some of the other nutrients necessary for hormone conversion.

    hypothyroidmom.com/10-nutri...

    This could be the reason why you are low in Free T3. It does appear it may be a nutrient deficiency issue.

    Perhaps you should bring this possibility to the attention of your doctor. I do believe he is trying to help.

    Maybe your doctor will agree that checking the nutrient levels which are vital for thyroid hormone production and conversion is the thing to do. If not, perhaps he can refer you to an integrative doctor who will.

    Healing Hugs!

  • It's very low dose and sometimes a very low dose can make you feel worse by letting your thyroid think that it can take a rest from producing hormones, but it does not supply enough to make up for what your thyroid is no longer producing. Thyroid hormones are neeed for brain function and the immune system, but you've probably just caught a cold.

  • It's weird as I've not had a cold for many years,

    I'm not starting on high dose my gut feeling says is not good to do that but confused you say

    I started 25 last autumn and had awful swimmy head, told to stop it immediately by doctors which took me to now

    Re the t3 why can't you just take it, is it ft3. Does it go round body?

    Why do you need to take levo if it's 3 that you are needing?

    Sorry if repeating I'm unsure if you got other message. X

  • You can take T3 only, but it doesn't suit everyone for the reasons I mentioned previously. And you'd have to buy your own and self-medicate if you are in the UK.

  • Hypothyroid symptoms are many. T3 is much more powerful than T4. It is a very methodical protocol to use T3 correctly. Also, it has no storage ability. What you take is what you get. If you forget to take it, you get nothing. Dosing inconsistency is very problematic for dealing effectively with hypothyroidism. Those ups and downs equate to an endocrine rollercoaster: one step forward and two steps back!

    You ask why if you need T3 do you given T4. People are given Levo because it is T4. In the body, Levo (T4) converts to T3. The problem arises if you don't have sufficient nutrients in place to complete those conversions. In other words, you can take all the T4 (Levo) you want... but if you can't convert, it's worthless.

    This is why you need to get your nutrients checked to make sure you have no deficiencies that are keeping you from converting sufficient T3.

    Have you ever used PPIs (Proton Pump Inhibitors like Prevacid or Prilosec for acid reflux or excess acid in the stomach?). Those of us who have (and some for decades) now have absolutely zero stomach acid! Stomach acid is necessary for nutrient absorption. This is how I became depleted of all nutrients. Let me know if you have taken PPIs or take have used antacids long-term. If so, that could be the problem!

    If you can correct your nutritional deficiencies, then T4 (Levo) should work for you. Of course there are other reasons (fillers and high histamines are a terrible combination). High histamines are common with hypothyroidism. Most people just think suddenly they seem to be allergic to almost everything! Well, that is partially true. But the reason behind it is often a part of the hypothyroidism experience more than anything else. Those high histamines! If you eat gluten, stop. It's not a fad (like I once thought) but truly a little monster that wreaks havoc in our bodies.

    T3 is very good to use in the short-term to get you feeling better while getting at the cause of the lack of T3 (usually a nutritional deficiency). However, most people need great attention to find the exact amount of T3 needed. It's not as simple as taking Levo. Levo lasts in the body so that if you forget a dose, no big deal. With T3, a forgotten dose could put you in a tailspin.

    Healing Hugs!

  • Wow thanks again, soo helpful!!

    No not had the PP thing, I've never taken anti cids etc, I've just taken a powder for leaky gut, it's much better already, the keniesiologist tests, I wasn't absorbing good products I was using to try and boost myself up As he said, stop wasting money at the moment lol

    This is why I bought spray vitamins as thought, hoped I would absorb it.

    Haven't got head around the histamine yet, are you saying fillers in this levo may be provoking symptoms? Where are the high histamine, do you mean in me, am I to take anti histime or try natural for it, I always had hay fever then it stopped .....

    I fancy a bit of t3! Unsure about tail spin, what happens? Low mood,? How long is it in your body?

  • Ah, you do have leaky gut!! There ya go. That's what I was after. So happy you are gluten free. Fabulous! Usually with nutrient deficiency there is some problem with absorption. You can help absorption by using HCL with Pepsin or Betaine with Pepsin.

    But I do believe using spray vitamins are the best -- that is, if the vitamin itself is in an already converted state (i.e. ascorbic acid is not quite the same as Vitamin C; make sure you get Vitamin C that is produced from berries and not corn drowned in corn syrup.) B-12 should be methylcobalamin instead of the cheaper version that must be converted. Get to know your vitamins and how to buy them in an already converted state so it will be of use to you. I always take mine with HCL (and some protein at the same time).

    Yes, the fillers in the Levo could possibly be causing a histamine reaction. If you're not otherwise having any seemingly "allergic" symptoms to other things or certain foods, then you probably don't have a histamine issue. But it's possible. Could be it is minor and the fillers in the Levo set it off.

    T3 has a very short half-life. Initially, you'll feel it wane in about 3-6 hours. There's still some left, you just won't necessarily feel the difference after that point.

    Send me a message and I'll be happy to elaborate.

    Healing Hugs to you!!

  • Hlab

    Thanks for info

    Can you overdose on zinc, is it stored?

  • I don't think we absorb it that well (with low thyroid) and a safe dose is zinc citrate 15mg, but I'm certain that you can take more when you've got a cold.

    nutritional-supplements-hea...

  • So is there t3 in levo too?? O boy am I confused

    Then t3 needs transporting? Is ft3 what it becomes after conversion?

  • Hi Jeppy,

    No, Levo is T4,which converts to T3 ,and the active hormone that the body uses.You may need to be given T3 as well eventually, but it is best to start with T4 only initially.A lot of people do well with just T4,if you have no thyroid at all then not so good and T3 is needed as well.It will probably take 4 - 6 weeks before it settles down,your blood should be tested after 6 weeks.

  • Forgot to say also you mentioned about missing the second dose, you can take all the Levo in one go in the morning, you don't need to split it,it lasts a week in your body so won't wear off during the day like T3 which needs to be split doses.

  • That is a very small dose of levothyroxine. Because T4 is an inactive storage hormone with a long half-life, you shouldn't expect to see any improvement for up to 2 months. The symptoms you mentioned are all hypothyroid symptoms.

    There is the tendency to take a medication and then over-scrutinize (we all do this), attempting to match symptoms with the drug itself. With hypothyroidism especially, the symptoms are more coincidental to a dose taken than cause-and-effect, especially at such a low dose.

    However, there are some people who seem to have allergic responses to fillers and binders in levothyroxine specifically. Ironically, while most doctors will tell you that T4 drugs are highly reliable (potency and stability) and natural desiccated thyroid products (NDT) aren't, this is simply untrue. T4 drugs are sensitive to heat and moisture and have a long history of recalls (especially synthroid, which was almost pulled off the market in the US)

    Most doctors prescribe T4 because they've been told it will convert to T3 in the body. Unfortunately, that's not true in some people, who either have a genetic inability to convert adequate amounts or because they have a tendency to convert T4 into Reverse T3, which blocks the receptor, making you feel even worse. Another reason doctors DON'T want to give T3 is that it's more difficult to dose, as it has a shorter duration of action, and you'll have to take it anywhere from 2 to 4 times a day. In pharmacy, we know that the more often a patient has to take a drug, the more likely they'll skip doses. The final reason why doctors prefer to prescribe T4 drugs, even though these drugs have been proven not to work for certain individuals, is that they accept the 'opinions' of endocrinologists, who have long been the lush target of drug manufacturers' levothyroxine propaganda.

    Since nobody has ruled out that you're a non-converter, you'll want to find a doctor who is willing to give you a trial dose of desiccated thyroid. A good starting dose is a 60mg tablet, which will contain 38mcg of T4 and 9mcg of T3. So how do you get the doctor to do this?

    When you ask, ask like this..."I want a trial dose for the next couple of months...what harm can that do?" When he starts to babble that strange endo-speak, ask him this: "Is there something you're afraid might happen if I used desiccated thyroid and my symptoms went away?"

    Here's the thing: Some of us have read a lot of books on hypothyroidism and so we're the more educated individual in the room. But knowledge doesn't equal persuasion. That's a different skillset. You can take the pressure off the doctor's ego by "ruling something out", rather than forcing them to defend their own mythology.

    Most likely you'll have to change doctors. I would estimate that 85% of all medical practitioners will NEVER prescribe natural desiccated thyroid and will try to bully or intimidate you. And even if you do find one who will prescribe NDT, the odds that they'll use the TSH test exclusively to treat your symptoms is even higher. The TSH tends to be suppressed when you've reached an adequate dose, but you'll never get there because they won't violate the TSH rule (0.35 - 4.5, more or less).

    So put more of your energy finding a doctor who will:

    A) Prescribe NDT for several months, increasing the dose regularly during that time and who will ASK about your symptoms or will listen while you discuss them.

    B) Run more valuable tests such as the FREE T3, FREE T4, REVERSE T3 and the Hashimoto antibody tests. They should know the difference between suppression of the TSH (0.03 but no symptoms) and HYPERthyroid symptoms because the dose is too high.

    C) Rule out that you have a deficiency of magnesium, iron, selenium, B12, etc. This should occur PRIOR to beginning thyroid hormone therapy. You can have a healthy thyroid gland and still have "low thyroid function".

    D) Check for adrenal insufficiency (don't use the word adrenal fatigue...they laugh at that) by using the 4 point adrenal saliva test. This should also be done PRIOR to beginning thyroid hormones because low cortisol will impede your ability to reach a proper dose.

  • I do t want to try anything else until my adrenals are checked and to see if ok, as to me, it defeats object and you can't treat adrenals while on thyroid tablet

  • You can treat adrenals while taking thyroid meds. I did. GP will do only short synacthen test anyway (ot start with) and treat only if you have Cushings or Addisons. NHS don't do saliva testing and don't recognise it if you get it done, so you have to self-treat if results aren't ideal.

  • Sorry really confused?

    The link you sent me says it's not to do with adrenals?

    So if checked and cortisol hay wire what then? The link appears it's tomtrest thyroid?

  • Treat thyroid and sex hormones - you need sufficient t3 and progesterone to make cortisol (you might also need DHEA). Meditation is also good. Wait and see what your cortisol is before stressing over it.

    People have different views on which to treat first. Just saying that you can take thyroid meds and fix adrenals at the same time. Paul Robinson's CT3M helps fix adrenals while treating thyroid. recoveringwitht3.com/blog/w...

  • Hi just a quickie in this obstacle course

    How would you supplement progesterone xx

  • I have it on prescription, but many people use a progesterone cream, such as Serenity.

  • Thanks for that

  • Hi

    I have just read and decided to do saliva test before I read your post!!!!!!!!!

    With respect I'm surprised I haven't been advised this before? It seems vital to me, and now il have to stop levo but only had a few days of 12, why isn't this wonderful site saying this

    I'm bewildered by all this info but am still confused as my t4 was actually quite good? So I do make that ok, and my ft3 not bad

    So why am I doing this to myself before adrenal test which is following years of high stress ongoing

    And when I get the saliva test back, and it says low whatever, please may I know what to take?

    I'm reading now you have to stop levo first etc, but any thing else to know very very grateful

    It then begs if the pituatory is ok xx

  • You can't treat adrenals whilst on thyroid

  • Thanks but this YOUR thyroid book I e recieved says the opposite?? So who is right we wonder?

  • No one knows. Both approaches can work. I don't have a thyroid book ;-)

  • Unsure why the push for the other brand as yet - are you guessing I'm allergic to levo pls?

  • Chicken and egg as I'm recieved book from thyroid uk by Barry Durrent Peatfield saying what I've said?

  • Why have a saliva test at all?

  • For your own information

  • Jeppy, that is very similar to the reaction that I had to 25mg Levo back in February, took myself off it after 9 days as it was clearly doing more harm than good. It increased all the hypo symptoms and I'm still recovering 3 months later

  • I suspect low b12 (the anxiety, tinnitus and oversleeping are signs). I'm wondering if you get enough b12 in your diet, are you vegan? Or if not, whether you're absorbing any b12 at all. B12 deficiency, adrenal and thyroid issues tend to go hand-in-hand.

    If your endo was worth their salt they'd have checked for deficiencies in b12, folate, iron and vit D already... 'normal' levels are set way too low, so ask for a printout...as doctors just go by the guidelines and will tell you that you're 'normal' when you could be below 300 and symptomatic.

    In Japan they treat for b12 deficiency below 500, but the lower limit is set much, much lower here!

    b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

  • I couldn't get an endo, I couldn't get a prescription until last week 😊

    I got my own private bloods done, I had keniesiology last week and tested that I'm still needing b12 yes, and D. I take selenium and C also. And ash Wanda I bought yesterday for adrenals, I must ask him to test this on me next time

  • Hi there, Jeppy!

    From my own personal experience, I believe you probably don't have a cold.

    What you have may quite possibly have something to do with histamine intolerance brought on by what some studies (since the early 1960s) have shown to be thyroxine-induced histamine sensitivity/intolerance. (See #1 below) It is what I have experienced.

    Histamine intolerance comes about due to a lack of the Diamine oxidase (DAO) enzyme which breaks down histamine. When a person is hypothyroid, there is a lack of stomach acid as well as a reduction of the enzyme DAO, as all the systems of the body continue to slow down in proper functioning.

    Link #2 is a blog written by a women who believes she is not hypo at all but only suffers from histamine intolerance (See Link #2A). I think perhaps it may be a combination of both, perhaps for her. Perhaps not. Learning about the possibilities may be of great help to you. It certainly has been for me.

    OTC Antihistamines help, but are not truly a healthy alternative. However, nature's antihistamine, Quercetin, can be very helpful in that regard. I use both DAO and Quercetin as my histamine levels are sky high. I also avoid high histamine foods. (See #3 below.)

    #1. researchgate.net/publicatio...

    #2. healinghistamine.com/i-have...

    #2A. autoimmunethyroid.wordpress...

    #3. (http://mojogirlfriends.com/natural-anti-histamine-relief-when-you-have-hashimotos/)

    Hope this helps!

  • Very interesting thanks so much

    I felt it too coincidental i had a cold, my daughter knows me well and said it looked like when I used to have hay fever, and another member reported similar just when starting levo

  • Hlab

    Hi

    Yes I am low in b12 and taking a spray I bought

  • Mr sensible

    Thanks, but where does it leave you now. What is way forward for you pls?

  • Hi all

    Thank you so much for giving time to me, I can see my anxiety has really vamped up since taking levo 12.5

    I know it's tiny but I have a sensitive system I know, I could feel what an anti depressant was doing in the first day, I'm a nightmare haha

    This higher anx makes me over anxious, as now, some will say it will settle down, some will say to stop them, I feel I'm making a mountain out of mole hill, I'm changing job and that is vamping it up too as want to be fit and well, if not, what then!! I am sole bill payer, floating anxiety always

    With respect there are SO many views it's hard to know what's what, earlier today I felt happy to check out my adrenals and try sort them, before continuing with levo, as read here in this thyroid book, the thyroid gets affected and dragged down when the adrenals have been overworked and boy have mine 😱

    There is a link above that disputes this view and says it visa versa, the thyroid causes adrenals to weaken???????? On some level I believe the adrenals come first as it seems more logical, the lion chases and it's the adrenals that stave it off with adrenalin first, if they get depleted, then yes, I can see it knocks the system to thyroid out of kilter....

    I actually remember the fist time I didn't react properly after a burst pipe in my home , Ntl burst it, and I was as calm as a cucumber with water gushing through my home,,,I didn't/couldn't react any more, I lost my purse with all my cards and money, didn't react, ,, this followed many life big stuff, e.g. Kitchen fire, divorce, children problems on board work stuff, car crash, i joked it was like being hit down with a big wet fish, but I'm just making point that I think my adrenals did give up some, I'm not being woos really as may appear, i feel fortunate I was a three tsh until 2010 when I hit the uk recession and no job, so from my life story, I do believe it's adrenals first

    Any thoughts xx

    Epistle ova πŸ˜ŠπŸ‘

  • When my cortisol was really low I'd go into meltdown if the tiniest thing went wrong and have severe headache and vomiting if there was physical stress.

  • Poor you! How have you recovered from this? Have you treated adrenals?

  • Been doing that for the last 25 years!

  • How do you mean?

  • I've been treating my adrenals for the the last 25 years with rest, stress reduction techniques, hormone replacement and glandulars - it's not a quick fix.

  • I'd go with that, but it's a pretty complex system and if one bit blows it'll cause repercussions elsewhere. Back to adrenals though.. I'd recommend some specific B vitamins. I've used Thorne 'Stress B' recently which is very good for stress as it says :-)(but pricey) and doesn't contain much additional B12 (but if you're taking a sublingual spray, you've already got that covered). My cortisol levels were going haywire and the additional B5 (pantothenic acid) and B6 in this complex has been very interesting and I feel the benefits now.

    Quercetin is very, very good for allergies...it does bind with iron though, so take it away from foods, or supplements that have iron in them.

    It seems that you've still got symptoms of low b12 with that tinnitus, so it'd be worth going to the PA forum if that doesn't sort itself out. Presumably they didn't offer you injections..

  • Lots of info

    Thanks so much, I'm pleased it's helped, are you on levo too?

    B12 I just went to the health shop, and we doused what was there !! lol.

    I felt like a where wolf, at least it's improving and ismitmtnis that causes some heavy breathing, it's a bit better, I take b complex and D and selenium

    Unsure what has iron in it, it's a complicated business for sure xx

  • I've done my upmost to make thyroxine work for me, but it's taken a lot of probing and research. To be honest I think most people should be spared the amount of (a) time and (b) money that's required to make it work for them and just prescribe NDT!

    I've become a B vitamin snob, because I've figured out that some of the cheaper complexes really didn't help much, if at all. I have a complicated metabolism that requires methylated folate (not folic acid) and high levels of B1, B2, B5 and p-5-p (and methylated b12 of course). I also do well on a Mediterranean diet, so it all figures and my personality matches this as well ;-)

  • Pleased for you!

    I'm afraid a lot of the things went over head what is p 5p?

    How did you know you didn't need folic acid?

  • P_5_P is the co-enzyme form of B6, so gets to work faster and doesn't require any conversions, the same goes for methylated folate.

    I have very low stomach acid, a history of IBS and ulcers and chronic fatigue as a student and more recently low b12 symptoms with neuropathy. I found out about methylated vitamins being so much more effective for someone with my history. Since trying them I've had so much more energy - I'm almost like a 'normal' person.

    More recently I've found out about genetic problems (often in people with Mediterranean ancestry e.g. South of France, or Italian) that mean that we're more susceptible to problems with 'methylation' i.e. converting synthetic vitamins like B6 or folic acid into usable forms for the body, when we're compensating for a lifetime of a typical UK diet. The traditional diet is so rich in good vitamins and good fatty acids that people who live there (especially by the sea) don't need to supplement! It's almost proof, but a genetic test would be the next step.

  • Thanks. V interesting

    You've done so well with research!! And good results for sure, Poor you

    I've got some leaky gut and wheat sensitivity and have healed a lot by taking sustain powder from Nutri, just mentioning as they have good products it seems

    I'm going to read studyball this info another day, and really thankyou and all

    Time to sleep on it 😊🌞🌞🌞🌞

    GO WELL

    ( no such thing as normal πŸ€—

  • Hi.

    Thanks for the info, How do you improve stomach acid?? 😊 Im probably too old!

    Feeling i need to check cortisol, but unsure what to do with the info lol! Am I right to think I need to check adrenals before I attempt to sort the thyroid side? It's so mind boggling! And feel I need to check iodine!? As can't convert without enough

    Hope you don't mind me asking

    Best wishes j

  • Stomach acid is aided by Ascorbic acid powder (diluted) taken with meals, or even better - Betaine HCl.

    I'm not really sure what the right order is... adrenals or thyroid - there are many things like B6, Zinc and Magnesium that help both.

    I wouldn't go overboard on the iodine though (don't supplement it) just make sure you're having some dietary sources of it. It could make your Hashi's worse by increasing antibodies.

    verywell.com/the-iodine-con...

  • Positives up to now of levo 12.5. For 6 days equals an amazing deep sleep , breathing feeling easier, a bit more motivated in home if not asleep

    Negs. Equals. Heightened anx and fear, now concern I should try heal adrenals first

  • And neg also , a hacking deep cough, cold symptoms, unsure if bad, heightened tinitus

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