Large T3 doses

Can anyone on here, and there are a couple, nobodysdriving for example who take huge amounts of T3, that can tell me what levels their Free T3 results come in at.

You're probably bored by my questions but Im trying to work my way through information before I make a final decision,

I assume you're on high doses because you have Thyroid Hormone Resistance which is what Im beginning to wonder is what I have. My TSH is high but my Free T3 is extremely high and way above range without symptoms of it doing so.

Ive cut out my Thyroid medication ie T3 only and Im beginning to feel exhausted in a thyroid kind of way.

I just want to go back to my normal dosage or maybe a bit less but I might be doing myself more harm by doing so. Feel dreadful and desperately trying to keep bright and breezy as I was with the high levels for Christmas.

x

10 Replies

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  • My FT3 was always over range. Interestingly when I changed from dosing twice daily to once daily I was able to reduce my T3 from 150mcg to 100mcg.

    I did think I had some sort of hormone resistance but my health has been deteriorating quite rapidly despite all bases covered. Don't feel it's 100% due to my thyroid so am now looking at other possibilities.

    Check out janeb's posts for some interesting reading.

  • There isn't a member called janeb on HU any more, the account must have been deleted. The only posts of hers that can be found are the ones that mention her in the replies.

  • humanbean - sorry but I got that wrong! Member is janeb15

  • Okay, her posts can be found by looking at her profile :

    healthunlocked.com/janeb15

  • I'm sorry to hear of your problems. I actually feel quite well but the figures belie that.

    At what level have your T3 levels gone to. Also what has been your GPs/endos view whenever it goes high and are they aware of how much T3 you take.

  • Dr Lowe himself took 150mcg of T3 daily and this is an excerpt from a couple of his pages (question dated January 2, 2002):-

    Patients also fall into a bell curve regarding how their thyroid glands respond to any particular blood level of TSH. In response to a TSH level that the typical conventional endocrinologist adores, the glands of some patients will release enough thyroid hormone to keep metabolism normal. In response to this same TSH level, the thyroid glands of other patients will release too little thyroid hormone to keep metabolism normal. These patients will remain ill with symptoms of slow metabolism—despite the same TSH level that keeps other patients well.

    The same applies to T3 blood levels: Patients fall into a bell curve—some enjoying normal metabolism with a particular T3 level, others suffering from symptoms of slow metabolism with the same T3 level.

    What’s most important to realize is this: The variation in how different patients respond to the same TSH or T3 level makes the reference ranges (formerly called the "ranges of normal") for the T3, TSH, or any other hormone totally without value in finding the dose of thyroid hormone that’s safe and effective for individual patients.[1,p.1217]

    In my experience, most conventional endocrinologists, seemingly unaware of the bell-curve phenomenon, make a trouble-causing presumption: that researchers have scientifically established the safe and effective dose of thyroid hormone for all human beings. That dose, they presume, is one that keeps the TSH and thyroid hormone levels within their reference ranges. This, however, is a false and scientifically unjustified presumption.

    Many patients know the presumption is false; they know it’s false because they, like you, become and remain ill when their doctors adjust their thyroid hormone dose according to the TSH level. I know the presumption is false for three reasons: (1) I've studied the research literature which shows that the presumption hasn't been established. (2) I've objectively assessed the tissue metabolic status of patients whose thyroid hormone doses were regulated by TSH levels and found the tissues understimulated. And (3), I've seen hundreds of such patients—formerly kept ill by TSH-adjusted thyroid hormone doses—fully recover their health when my cotreating doctors and I treated them in violation of the guidelines of the conventional endocrinology specialty.

    web.archive.org/web/2010103...

    and from September 7, 2000

    One of the alternative doctors you mentioned (whose name we deleted), who touts the superiority of the free T3 and free T4, recently wrote to me: "I believe my approach is the best in the world: Tell me why it's not and why yours is better!" I replied:

    "I don't believe that measuring the free T4, free T3, or any other circulating hormone level, is the most effective approach to adjusting patients’ thyroid hormone dosages. My belief is based partly on the studies of Escobar-Morreale and colleagues in Spain.[1][2] Those who advocate the use of free T3 and free T4 levels to adjust patients' dosages imply that these levels reliably predict T3 concentrations in cells. However, Escobar-Morreale’s studies make one thing clear—circulating free T3 and T4 levels don't allow us to accurately predict T3 concentrations in the cells of most tissues. His studies show that there’s simply too much variation in cell T3 concentrations in different tissues in the same patient. Moreover, there's too much variation between the tissues of different patients. This makes predicting the physiological and clinical effects of different dosages, and of different circulating free T3 and T4 blood levels, unreliable. Again, there's simply too much variation between patients to allow accurate predictions from blood hormone levels.

    "Dr. Broda Barnes was right when, long ago, he wrote that circulating levels of hormones don't measure what's most important. What’s most important is (1) how the patient's tissues are responding to a dosage of thyroid hormone, and (2) the physiological and clinical effects on the patient of that dosage.

    "Our model of assessment (within metabolic rehabilitation) is taken from behavior modification, in which I was trained in the early 1970s. Using this model, we make multiple measures of how tissues are responding to a particular dosage. We repeat the measures at short intervals and post the results to several line graphs. By inspecting the graphs, we can see how the patient’s tissues are responding to the present dosage. We carefully consider the graphed data in view of the patient's and our collaborative judgment of how he or she is responding to the treatment. We can then intelligently adjust the hormone dosage (and any other features of the patient's treatment regimen) until he or she achieves optimal metabolic health—all without regard for the blood levels of the TSH, free T3, or free T4. We know from hundreds of trial runs that this systematic behavioral approach enables us to control the metabolic status of patients more precisely than with any other method.

    web.archive.org/web/2010103...

    excerpt from last part of above:

    "We can then intelligently adjust the hormone dosage (and any other features of the patient's treatment regimen) until he or she achieves optimal metabolic health—all without regard for the blood levels of the TSH, free T3, or free T4. We know from hundreds of trial runs that this systematic behavioral approach enables us to control the metabolic status of patients more precisely than with any other method."

    Drs Peatfield, Skinner and Lowe and other medical students were taught before the blood tests and levo were introduced on clinical symptoms plus features of the patients.

  • Thank you for this. I shall enjoy reading it.

  • Thank you for this too. As Ive said, if the doctors had tested me, they wouldn't have tested my T3 anyway and my TSH is 6.5 so would have upped medication, maybe added T4 I don;t know (although T4 doesn't agree with me). What Im doing now is taking reduced doses so no doubt my TSH will go up even more but with a Free T3 of 22, I just sense something isn;t right. As Im Hashimotos, I could equally have had a dump of hormones. The diet Ive been on could have agitated it all and thats the reason.

  • i had worked up to 4 grains of NDT and feeling good, i still had symptoms of hypo and still had very little energy. I was tested by endo i had taken my meds that morning, who then flipped out as my tsh 0.01 t4 11 and my t3 10.9 I at no time felt over medicated but the endo went bonkers and some members on another forum scared the pants off me saying i would likely have a heart attack!! i am on reduced meds until my next test next week, during this 4 weeks of low meds i am as bad as i was before medicating, the pain in my arms, back, hips, knees, ankle and heels is unbearable, i can hardly walk, i cant stay awake, i am colder than i have ever been, chronic gastric problems, itching burning skin, crying and feel very ill. So i will be working back up on NDT once this test out the way.

    Tbh i got a lot of conflicting advice treat till your symptoms gone but then told i was on too much an must be hyper wether i felt it or not, so this time i will be guided by myself, my symptoms and my body.

    I have no idea if i am resistant but i doubt it as i felt the NDT working within 7 days, i had been ill for 7 years and have had 80% of my thyroid removed 2009 i didnt think 4 grains was high compared to many who say they take 5-6 grains but it suited me, i still dont think i had found my sweet spot as i was still not very active, it is a minefield of info but i am sure i will get well and i hope you do too xx

  • Dr, Lowe would have put you on t3 only or maybe raised the ndt..since you have no hyper symptoms and your ft3 was over range by quite a bit, you seem to be resistant. You may not convert well. 4 grains doesn't have much t3 in it really. I am on 37.5, more than 4 grs has. some on here are on more than 75..

    i'm really sorry that you let the doctor make you ill. Dose by symptom relief, if you feel hyper and hypo on higher doses of ndt, i would suggest t3 only.

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