Some thoughts from Mary Shomon.
Is Thyroid Diagnosis And Treatment Sexist? - Thyroid UK
Is Thyroid Diagnosis And Treatment Sexist?
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greygoose
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34 Replies
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I looked up the Royal coll of Endos to see how many were male - couldn't get figures. But they had done a recent census, which did not reveal the male female breakdown. In itself interesting. The only bit where there is a male female breakdown was on hours worked - I wondered whether that was a " men work more hours because women have children and are unreliable" mindset. On those figures, about 30 per cent of endos in England and Wales are female, but many are working shorter hours than men. So it is dominated by guys. And we all know that hypo is a disease dominated by women.
Although some male doctors must be OK - I do think that my generation, now top consultants, on the whole are institutionally chauvinist. And I believe that the unspoken view that women are unreliable, and obsessed by a desire to find an excuse for weight gain, may be one of the reasons that this area of medicine is the mess it is.
nightingale-56• in reply to
Maybe men work longer hours because they don't want to go home and look after the children, get dinner, do housework etc.! Don't know how women manage it and go to work as well. No wonder we are more susceptible to thyroid problems! (All said with tongue in cheek as our lovely men on this site are suffering too). What really puzzles me is the fact that husband and wife invariably suffer together. Is it catching?
Ah! Yes, that is interesting. Have you read Broda Barnes book? Can't remember the title but I think he only wrote one. Well, he has this theory that birds of a thyroid, flock together Or something like that. He said they're attracked to each other because they display similar traits and recognise that they won't have trouble keeping up with each other. They're both going at the same pace.
However, surely that could only work if both of them started getting hypo very early in life, or they married late...
Mind you, as there are more hypo women than hypo men, it does mean that some of us are out of luck...
Anyway, it's a very interesting theory and I'm sure warrants more interest than it currently générâtes. Along with lots of other strange theories that I won't get into...
GG, Given that men also struggle for a diagnosis, I think it is less do with sexism and more to do with the appalling ignorance of doctors on how savagely thyroid dysfunction, impacts on every aspect of health, relationships and work.
There has to be some sexism given the posts on here where " it's all in your head" comes up ,but overall I agree with you Clutter. It is ignorance and the ten mins you get cannot deal with all the symptoms.
Oh, it's definately both. There are more and more men with hypo; but I think the numbers are greater now than they were in the 'beginning'. For doctors it's basically a 'female' disorder. And that's probably why men have such difficulty getting diagnosed - doctors Don't automatically think thyroid when men present with symptoms. One doesn't preclude the other.
Oh dear. My gp probably was considering me as petite paper woman. To some doctors it seems to be difficult if patient is smart. I don't want to say most people are stupid , they just never question the treatment doctor suggests.
Doctors these days are annoyed that patients have access to Internet and can educate themselves. Doctor just considers a person like that hypocondric ( happened to me) and tell them to stop self diagnosing.
Where is willingness to help patient as that is the basic idea? Why someone wants to become a doctor if they don't care? And that is easy to say as they have access to same info as we all if they want to.
They do know drug companies are making the rules. But how so smart people as doctors are supposed to be can live with it ?
I would agree that the treatment is sexist,most sufferers are women.
And that preconceived idea makes it difficult for men to get diagnosed.
So you don't agree that most sufferers are female?
Did I say that? Where did I say that?
I said that if doctors have the preconceived idea that it's a 'female' disease, they're not even going to think that a man might have it. And that makes it even more difficult for a man to get diagnosed.
Doctors have these divisions in their head about male and female - obviously there are différences but there are an awful lot of similarities.
Like my doctor when I asked to have my testosterone tested. He laughed and said in a patronising tone : but you're a woman, women Don't have testosterone, dear. So, if low testosterone had been my problem, I would never have been diagnosed by that doctor.
If a doctor gets it into his head that you can't possibly have something, for whatever reason, then he's going to go all round the houses looking for something else when the answer is right Under his nose. It's both ignorance and sexism.
Its the way that people are diagnosed that is wrong, its hard for anyone, male or female to get a diagnosis.
That is a totally different arguement and nothing to do with the subject in hand. 
Chaps really need to start making some noise about their experiences, contacting the Daily Mail would be a good start.
greygoose• in reply to
Can't comment on that!
• in reply togreygoose
Don't be shy grey!!
Seriously, a high profile/s'leb male can only help. As much as I hate to say it - it's a man's world.
greygoose• in reply to
Well, you're right there!!! But it's the Daily Mail I can't comment on. I know nothing about newspapers, never read them, Don't know what sort of impact that would have.
What would be good would be some sort of health documentary, telling the truth, not the party line on thyroid issues.
• in reply togreygoose
grey - there was a very good article in the Telegraph about thyroid sufferers and it was much commented on. One would expect the 'Torygraph' to be taken seriously, compared to the Daily Mail anyway.
I'm just suggesting another way of highlighting the negligence that's experienced by thyroid sufferers where females are in the majority and the men are forgotten about. Whilst it's perceived to be a woman's problem, it needs to be highlighted that it's not exclusively so.
Agree with your comment about a health documentary but it would need to include male sufferers to get maximum exposure.
Sorry, I'll stop ranting but I get so bloomin' cross with the medical establishment.
greygoose• in reply to
Oh, so do I! Sometimes I have to stop reading on here when people talk about the stupid things their doctors have said and done, it's just too much. That such ignorance should exist in people we trust our lives with, is just unbelievable. When I visit a doctor, I have a terrible urge to say : hello, doctor, how many people have you killed today? But I manage to restrain myself.
But so many people still see the doctor as god, would they even believe what's going on if they Don't have the problem themselves? Not the people I know. And people on here have reacted to advice by saying, thank you but I think I'll continue to follow my doctor's instructions - even when it is making them worse.
I think if their were a documentary, it should be centered around men. Something along the lines of : this is considered to be a women's disease, but is this just because men aren't getting diagnosed? If so, why? If not, why? What's wrong with diagnostic Tools? Are doctors sexist? Are they well-enough educated? And if men manage to get diagnosed, are they properly treated? If not, why not? Is there a difference in the treatment of men and women? If so, should it be that way? Etc, etc, etc.
But unless you have a film-maker for a bossom Buddy who also happens to be a hypo male, I Don't think you're going to get it made! lol
There are many high-profile males with thyroid disorders - Presidents Kennedy and Bush Snr. being extremely well known.
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Somewhat odd though, to think of thyroid diagnosis being on gender lines when six out of six GPs at my surgery are female.
I know what you mean but I find that female doctors are often as chauvanist as the males. Seeing a female doctor - even a gynacologist - is often not much different to seeing a male, it's never got me any sympathy or a feeling of sister-Hood. They're just as hard on women as the men are.
I'm aware that there are high profile males with thyroid problems, but how many doctors are? Would we be aware of them if we didn't have problems ourselves?
Just glanced through your list and was surprised to see Mae West had a possible extra thyroid!!! I've never heard of that happening. How would that affect someone? Would it make you hyper? She looked more hypo to me.
• in reply tohelvella
Yes indeed helvella. I forgot that we already have a male s'leb sufferer, namely Mick Hucknall of Simply Red.
Very surprised that all your GPs are female though.
Yes,doctors do come out with some crackers. I particularly howled when a member on here was told by her GP that 'they didn't believe in supplements'. That doctor is downright dangerous spouting such nonsense.
grey, I do think the tide is turning and people are waking up to the fact that sometimes the doctors do get it wrong. Even my late mother complained about doctors and how they didn't listen to her, preferring instead to come out with some nonsense. Just cos they hadn't heard of it that it did not mean it didn't exist, usual blinkered and hard of thinking approach.
My friends and family have had their eyes well and truly opened by listening to my experience. I sincerely hope that it's encouraged them to question the medical profession. The internet has opened up a new world for us all and it is so empowering.
You have some excellent ideas there for a documentary. Something I'm curious about is whether there is any particular age at which men begin to show symptoms. For women it seems to be more prominent in middle-age.
The UK thyroid world really does need a well-known spokesperson!
The thing the male endos dismiss, the contempt they show, is for the female account of symptoms. There are two possible scenarios, it seems to me - either they've got the TSH as a measure badly wrong, as so many believe.
Or there is another condition (maybe more than one) causing the symptoms which eventually leads to Hashi's.
If they believed women's account of their symptoms, they would be looking hard for that condition.
But most - not all - seem to be just dismissing what we describe. "Yes, yes dear."
The only way you'd get a documentary would be if there was some exciting breakthrough in the science, I think.
greygoose• in reply to
No, not necessarily. Sometimes documentary makers like to dig up old problems, myths, mysteries etc. But I think there would have to be a big splash about it in the media for some reason - like the queen was diagnosed Hypo, or Elvis Presely was proved to have Hashi's (now, there's a thought...).
As for another condition causing the symptoms eventually leading to Hashi's... doesn't sound likely - they've actually gone the other way, and 'nvented' two new conditions to explain continuing symptoms after they think the patient is 'cured' - Fibromyalgia and CFS (that's going to provoke howls of disagreement, but that's what I believe). Which are so convenient! No blood tests to diagnose, not treatment and no cure! Therefore much less work. What more could you ask.
Or if the Duchess of Cornwall got it. Along with Posh. And Lady Gaga.
greygoose• in reply to
Now that's just jealousy! lol You envy Kate's fantastic slim body. Well, so do I! lol Yes, that would cause a stir.
Is Posh still in the head lines?
But I Don't think Lady Gaga ought to get it, or they'd say that's why she's weird. lol
• in reply togreygoose
I was a journalist for 30 years. Celebrities spark off news pieces. And new scientific discoveries can too, of course. There is a strong link here to your chauvinism point, Greygoose. Men still run papers, and you just have to look at the Jimmy Savile business to see the ruthless chauvinism in television. They want to show pix of sexy women - there is a fight even to keep middle aged female TV presenters on screen. Health programmes can feature a kind of circus show - oooh, look at this person too fat to move - whose skin is like cabbage leaves - but a programme idea about the troubles of overweight, middle-aged women who feel tired is dead in the water.
Panorama might do something if there was a really strong new scientific controversial news angle. It would feature a lot of male hero scientists and some glimpses of passive, fat female patients.
Oh, let's all settle down and watch some more people choose houses and garage contents and celebrities cooking.
greygoose• in reply to
Yeah, I know. Pathetic, isn't it! How did you manage to survive for 30 years???
With ruined adrenals! With RSI! Hey, but let's be of good cheer, Greygoose. There is more intelligence and dispassion and knowledge in five questions and answers on Healthunlocked Thyroid UK than the whole of the Daily Mail, most days. As you know, the power is moving - the media is right here. Researchers are beginning to look at forums. We can together focus down on the questions which need to be asked. We can collect a huge readership, we can dominate the web on the issue of patient experience. (Dum, dum, dum... mounting excited music. Ghost of Emily Davison flutters above title waving encouragingly.)
You are making a difference. And an even bigger difference can be made.
greygoose• in reply to
Right on!
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