Diet & detox & effects on TSH blood test

[Vikkiod]

I am really trying to lose weight (join the club) & have been dieting hard & trying the clean9 detox this week. Doing ok, but am going to have my first set of private bloods done with new Endo this week and want to have true & realistic bloods. Do you think the detox & diet will affect things like my TSH levels? Arghh! Any advice, anyone? This is all new to me! X

[greygoose]

I don't know anything about detoxing, but I would think the dieting would make your TSH higher, if anything!

'Dieting', in the accepted sense of the term, is really not a good idea when you're hypo, and it's not going to make you lose weight becaus your weight-gain has nothing to do with what you're eating. It is due to your metabolism being low, due to your T3 being low - which I imagine it is if you can't lose weight.

So, what happens is, if you restrict your calories too much, you can't convert your T4, the little that your thyroid is managing to make, into T3, so you will become more hypo. Every function in your body needs calories, like breathing and digesting. And when calories are in short supply, conversion is the last in line for a hand-out. So, in the end, you get more hypo and put on even more weight. But that weight usually isn't fat, it's water tied up in a substance called mucin, just Under the skin, that doesn't let it go. So, dieting won't help that, anyway. In fact, hypos usually need more calories, not less.

Hopefully, someone that knows something about detoxing will come along and answer the second part of your question.

Hugs, Grey

[Vikkiod in reply to greygoose]

Awh, thanks for that & taking the time to reply. I know that you are right but I am a desp woman and just can't stand feeling soooo fat. Fingers crossed the endocrinologist that I am seeing on weds will be help. X💖

[greygoose in reply to Vikkiod]

Fingers crossed for you, Vikkiod.

[Heloise in reply to Vikkiod]

What kind of diet are you trying? There are some that don't let your body think you are starving which is what triggers a TSH problem. I think the one called 5:2 might be the type.

[Vikkiod in reply to Heloise]

Thanks for replying. I have done every single diet known to man. I am officially a diet junkie as when I am not restricting, I am getting fat again😔 I am doing a half hearted version of the clean9 detox. It's ok but not sustainable long term. None of them are! Fingers crossed when I get my metabolism sorted (dream on, Sister) I can just go back to eating 'healthily'. I currently cannot shift an ounce without extreme measures🙈

[Heloise in reply to Vikkiod]

Vikki, how is your FT3 level? I hope you have or are getting that one done. I have read that if you are not optimally replaced, you are burning 17 calories less per hour than normal function. So raising metabolism should be the priority rather than a low calorie diet. Taking T3 of some kind may be a better way of doing that.

[Vikkiod in reply to Heloise]

I think you are absolutely right! My instinct is def telling me that I am not converting. I am going to request that I have everything tested incl. reverse T3. I know I need meds but don't really want to go down the T4 synth route as I've heard one of the side effects is hairloss. Already struggling with that! Thinking that NDT would be a good place to start? Not really looked into T3 on its own. Any advice? Suppose it depends on the labs? X

[Heloise in reply to Vikkiod]

I've been on everything and think everyone should start on NDT. Are you in the UK as I know they are reluctant to test and worse about treating unless you are very bad off and worse than that....offering NDT. It is very pathetic.

Vikk, I hope you try to learn more about metabolism...it's vital for this condition. Adrenal dysfunction is a big problem with hair loss as well.

Look at some of the topics here:

stopthethyroidmadness.com/s...

[Jodypody in reply to greygoose]

Hi Grey. Just to let you know and at the risk of locking horns with you again. There is no evidence to suggest we need more calories. We need quality food but burn around 200kcal a day less than your average person so eating less unfortunately or upping activity is the only way and yes around 50/60% of hypos have mucin that goes when given NDT surprise surprise. Incidentally you might want to do some digging around on Google about this High Fat Low Carb diet that's getting a lot of press. Upsides are that you get to eat plenty of calories but your body without carbs uses fat for fuel. I'm interested and giving it a go as all foods are unprocessed and I do love butter and cheese lol. Downsides are you feel a bit rubbish for the first few days while your body switches to burning its own fat for fuel. But hey we are used to feeling a bit rubbish so what the heck x

[greygoose in reply to Jodypody]

Well, Jodypody, I have read what I said in several places, I didn't make it up. Even Mary Shomon has said it. And lots of people, in my experience, lots of people do lose weight when they up their calories. I guess it just goes to shox that we're all different! But if you're existing on 1000 calories a day and still putting on weight, then that obviously isn't working, either!

However, I'm not quite sure of the reasoning there - sounds like it's a lot more complicated than that. We burn 200 kcal less than other people, granted, our metabolism is low, but we still need calories for stuff like breathing and digesting, and converting. And, if there's not enough calories, convertion stops... Given that the calories in vs calories out thing is bogus, anyway, I'm not sure how this works. I don't know, I can't get my head around this. Do you have any links that show that?

And who said only 50/60% of us get mucin? One reads and hears lots of doubtful theories - no reason why yours should be anymore valid than mine - for instance, a doctor once told me that when you're hypo you should put on 4 kilos, not a gram more or less! So, in England hypos would put on 2.2 pounds? How stupid is that!

I agree with eating quality food. And I do know about high fat low calories diets. And I usually ask people if they're eating enough fat. Low fat diets have ruined lots of people's health.

[Jodypody in reply to greygoose]

4kilos is actually 10+ pounds and I've related to that before as it's an average for hypothyroid. I'm again only going on written medical literature. Just google mucin in hypothyroid and it will appear. 1,000 kcal is too low but calories in and out do matter to a degree. The problem stems from GDA. It's 2,000 for a woman. Well maybe if you're 6ft and bounce around all day but if you approach it more scientifically you will see a distinct difference. You need to calculate your basal metabolic rate. This takes in to account height weight and age. I'm 46, 5ft 3 and about 120lbs. My BMR is 1456 kcal. That's if I'm sedentary and want to maintain my current weight. If I want to lose I have to create a deficit. Either by eating less (which I won't/can't do) or upping the anti on activity which makes me feel more positive in general. Another interesting thing I read is that sweating is useful to us as we don't normally sweat and it's a useful and essential way of ridding the body of toxins. So much so another article recommended sauna therapy. Anyway, I mentioned the low carb high fat diet as you are actually able to eat more calories due to the way your body switches to burning it's own fat for reserve. I now have to eat around 1850kcal per day but that's easily used with my coffee with double cream 😊.

[Vikkiod in reply to Jodypody]

Thanks, JodyPody & Greygoose. 10lbs is prob about the extra weight that my body and I are having a big diagreement about! I am also nearly 46, 5ft 3 and 130 lbs. if I ate 2000 calories a day I would BALLOOOOOON. It's def nearer 1000 just to stay as I am😏I need to get this sorted now. I am sick of losing my hair & carrying hot water bottles around. Thanks for the discussion, ladies. It's great to know its not just me.

[Jodypody in reply to Vikkiod]

It's interesting now that they are u turning on what is deemed healthy and saying there was never any scientific evidence that fats like butter and cheese (yum yum) are bad for you! I'm a firm believer that it keeps your skin young too as is panning out when I see bodybuilders in the gym post 40 with sunken cheeks 😀.

[Jodypody in reply to Jodypody]

And one more thing........ Fat keeps you satiated whereas high carb sugary foods make you hungry......makes sense to me

[greygoose in reply to Jodypody]

Yes, well, I never did believe that fat was bad for you and have never stopped eating it.

But all you've said above is for people without a thyroid problem. Once the thyroid goes wrong, everything changes.

BUt, each to his own! I just know that a few years ago I was on NDT, six grains, and blew up to a massive 120 kilos and then stopped weighing myself but kept on growing. Had problems sourcing the NDT so went onto T3 only in the meantime and the extra weight just dropped off. I don't count calories, I eat what I want when I want, with lots and lots of fats of all sorts.

Contrary to the medical profession (and I take it you haven't got any links to post), I believe that personal experience is Worth it's weight in gold, because we just can't trust all those who pretend to know everything :

naturalnews.com/048644_medi...

as has been proved by the fat débâcle, no?

[Jodypody in reply to greygoose]

Oh Grey. I give up. All of my findings are hypo related. My first post related to someone who had hashimotos and referred her to a fellow sufferer who wrote a blog championing the LCHF option. But here's the the thing if you go high fat you HAVE to go LOW and I mean 20/30g of carbs. That is the pay off and there's no getting away with it. It works. My reference to basal metabolic rate was to make you understand you don't actually need that many calories and even less when you're a) sedentary and b) hypo. Tough call but true and yes you will have burned extra calories with the addition of T3 initially but if you keep eating over and above what your body requires you will lay down fat. No getting away from it. End of. Rubbish and not what you want to hear but completely true

Sorry x

[greygoose in reply to Jodypody]

It's not about what I want to hear, Roly, it's about what works! To hell with theories! When people say they are on a low calorie diet and still putting on weight, your theory obviously isn't working (sorry to repeat myself). One has to come up with an alternative. And I still say calories are a load of bull. So, giving up is the best thing to do. lol Because you won't convince me.

Oh, and saying I eat what I want does not automatically mean I over-eat! I find that slightly insulting.

[Jodypody in reply to greygoose]

Well clearly my method is working and yours isn't so what does that say! I'm not fully medicated and T3 is too low. Got my Endo appt to get my T3 soon so I can take a more relaxed approach. Until then I'll just have to be boring and super strict. Beats putting on half a stone every week cps that's what does and will happen otherwise.

[Jodypody in reply to greygoose]

P.s when I said if you keep overeating I didn't mean you personally obviously 😃. You are even more sensitive than me. I meant in general

[Vikkiod in reply to greygoose]

Hi Grey, really interested to hear about your swap from NDT to synth T3. This is all so new to me! That seems to have really helped you? Are you just on T3 now? How's that affecting your symptoms. Hope you don't mind the grilling! X

[greygoose in reply to Vikkiod]

I don't mind at all, Vikki.

I am just on T3 now. I don't think that T4 in any form was good for me. It made me ill. However, the funny thing was, when I tried T4 + T3, I still had all my symptoms, losing hair, etc, but I was also losing weight.

Then i went onto NDT and everything got worse! Perhaps that was because I was Hashi's. NDT doesn't agree with some Hashi's people.

So, I still have some symptoms, like fatigue and sore feet. But I think a lot is down to nutritional deficiencies. Especially B12. I'm exploring vits and mins at the moment.

It may not be perfect, but it's the best I've tried so far. But then again, I think there might be some permenant damage due to the fact that I know I've been hypo since I was a child, but only diagnosed at the age of 55. And then mistreated for about ten years. Which is why I've had to take my treatment into my own hands and self-treat. But don't get me started on doctors! lol

[Vikkiod in reply to Jodypody]

Thinking back I did eat high fat/low carb about 6 years ago for about 6 months when the low carb thing first grabbed my attention. On reflection i was prob feeling better then & it does suit me. I do vaguely remember bragging that I was feeling warmer!!! Ditching the sugar & grains has got to help but it does need to be replaced with something. All the evidence does seem to lead to good fats. Bring out the avocado & coconuts! I have managed to get a cancellation appointment with wonder Endo on Friday. She specializes in nutrition, metabolism & thyroid. She knows my TSH is only 3.8 but will def treat me. I can't wait. I've got a great feeling about this..Thanks for your comments. Love it. X

[Jodypody in reply to Vikkiod]

There must be something in the air I've just had a calls to say mines been brought forward to Thursday instead of March 5th. Tip = try and persuade her to put you on natural desiccated instead of synthetic replacement. Tell her you're willing to be uber compliant x best of luck and let me know. X

[Vikkiod in reply to Jodypody]

Oooh, must be! That's great news. Have emailed & spoken to her sec and she can't prescribe NDT but has said that she can 'advise'. Thinking that maybe synth T3 might be enough but won't know until I get my bloods back. Apparently she goes through them with a fine toothed comb. Like the sound of that. Are you on NDT? it seems to be like the thyroid holy grail!? X

[Jodypody in reply to Vikkiod]

It would seem that they are happy to prescribe it so it's up to me to convince. I like you had a hunch I wasn't converting and I was right. My T3 actually dropped even further after taking T4 only but TSH had gone to 0.6. T4 had only gone to 13 which is still a bit poo. So yes despite training like a nutter it's only my face that gets warm and I have to just diet permanently. Lucky me 😃. The T3 is the bit that affects metabolism so without it we are doomed.

[Vikkiod in reply to Jodypody]

Right then. Next step Mastermind, specialist subject T4 - T3 conversion problems. If that really holds the answer to my 25 year long quest to stay slim, warm (awake!) & to keep my hair, then i'm all over it😋

[Jodypody in reply to greygoose]

ukconspiracy.myfastforum.or...

This is the medical document posted on here recently that states that 55/60 % of hypothyroidism patients have mucin.

"I thank you" for if you remember monty Python 😀

[Vikkiod]

I have been on a crash course since last week & am currently sat surrounded by STTM, Dr Peatfield's & Mary Shomon's books😳 Have made a huge dossier of what I need to do as soon as I've had these bloods done & got a diagnosis. If this Endo isn't right, then I will go to a private GP, even if I have to pay for the scripts. We can't be help hostage by Big Pharma & incompetent medics! The problem I have is my desire to be slim overrides my common sense😔

[Vikkiod in reply to Vikkiod]

Yes, I am in Cheshire, by the way. No recommendations GP or Endo wise yet but i'm sure I will find a way. Thanks so much for your support. X