Why do Endo's refuse to see a connect between the thyroid and adrenals ????

[menothyro]

My Endo is a real twit or just needs to up her education. I think I know more than she does lol. Anyway she will NOT listen to anything about adrenals sluffs me off says I am fine and well I know different. Why will they not listen to us thyroid sufferers. My GP sadly was the same, not listening etc..etc.. well poof he is gone and now looking for another GP hopefully not a twit ..grrr Anyone have this happen with their Endo?

[Hidden]

Poof my GP has gone too but I have seen 2 other twits in the locum dr camp since who also dont listen. I think it is in their training. Good luck with new GP. Gentle hugs Joolz.x

[Heloise]

Oh my, you must be new, meno. I've been reading this forum for a couple of years and that is probably one of the main topics! How little understanding there seems to be about our condition. The difference is that the patient is willing to learn but the GP is not. This is a terrible dilemma but some have taken the bull by the horns and had their own blood tests done and treated accordingly. stopthethyroidmadness.com/l...

[menothyro in reply to Heloise]

YUP YUP and YUP XX

[Heloise]

stopthethyroidmadness.com/a...

[Schenks in reply to Heloise]

Huge help - and with shot adrenals, I can't research. Thanks, Heloise.

[Heloise in reply to Schenks]

Hi Schenks, I've bookmarked a few articles which I think are very helpful. I'll send them to you message box and you can look them up when you feel up to it. Have you seen any of the videos from Dr. Clark that I've been posting? Those are very informative and all you have to do is listen.

[Schenks in reply to Heloise]

XXX

[Schenks in reply to Heloise]

Not seen them but will now!!

[ivy77]

What is the problem with your adrenals? How it affects you and what dose are you on of thyroid meds?

Hypo people have blood sugar issues, this is where adrenals are beeing under pressure, trying to balance out sugars.....but on good thyroid therapy this should all get fixed...

Most of times people are just overmedicated and this puts stress again on adrenals!when i wrote a post about standard protocol for hypothiroidism i said it should be combination therapy!i just did not know back then that its only very little t3 needed to make your sweet spot!...and most of times people are on too many t4 like i was, and proved it with my graphs posted here!!

My experience

[sulamaye in reply to ivy77]

Hi I'm interested in what you said ivy77, could you post a link to your graphs? The impression I get reading the posts is that everyone needs slightly different things and probably the only way to find that out is by trial and error. How did you work out what you needed? I'd be really interested to know.

[ivy77 in reply to sulamaye]

Read my latest post,on how it went with me, and i think i am avergae hypo patient no specialties about me when you go to my profile, you can find first 2_3 posts where are put my graphs too.....the latest post i wrote summs up all what i have learnt...my learning curve has been steep, i learnt about t3 only in the last 20 days...and it can cause you adrenal fatigue if on too high doses, which are mostly advocated here

[menothyro in reply to ivy77]

Ivy77.

I want to thank-you for offering more info. I appreciate it and the info from all the other Poster's to this question. I also know that now I am not alone and that Endo's sometimes or in many cases can be our own worst healthcare provider re: thyroid/adrenal connection. I feel the Oath they take is a joke lol.

Keep fighting everyone on this matter and be your own best advocate..our bodies our right to be well. Wishing all good luck XX

[menothyro in reply to menothyro]

P.S. Not doing so good today and yesterday either so will not be replying to any other posts at this time. I will get there asap. Sorry XX

[cc120 in reply to ivy77]

Hi ivy77, are you on only T3 treatment?

[ivy77 in reply to cc120]

No currently i am taking 100t4 + 3 mcg t3.....and was for a year or more stable at 150 t 4 only......i missed my sweet spot around 65mcg t4, i do think little t3 is needed in most of patients!! I am no advocate of t3 only, i am for middle , moderate and logical path, am not dealing with outlier cases i dont understand those

This small amount of t3 makes huge difference for me.....for some patients this can be 12.5 but all above that i just think is not for majority

[cc120 in reply to ivy77]

Thank you Ivy77, here's a link comparing adrenal fatigue and hypothyroid symptoms, also talks about primary and secondary hypothyroid, ie thyroid problem caused by adrenal fatigue and vice versa:

drlam.com/articles/adrenalf...

[ivy77 in reply to cc120]

So yes even on 150mcg of t4 i would wake up from 2_4 if i did lets say some exercises more intense then usually.....i would just not put too much ephasis on it i think under good therapy this would sort out,so good therapy is takingnit slowly so all parts of body can catch up, going too fast with thyroid hormones puts pressure on adrenals again...i agree, so you have that feeling of hyper when you increase the dose and then it settles down eventually.....i know how blood sugar issue can exhaust adrenals, and make you feel very tired, and all my panick atatcks i had in the worst phase of my hypo, were connected to blood sugar drops....usually at the end of the day, when i lack energy!thats why less sugary diet is really helpful, more protein fats bit less carbs, like 30% of all

[cc120 in reply to ivy77]

Hi Ivy77, yes def re: blood sugar, exhausted adrenals, very tired, and panic attacks. Also just a feeling of dread and fear. Here are some links I have found helpful, and just realised I really need to read again:

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

As a part of stress—either physically or emotionally induced—the adrenal glands release more "cortisol." Cortisol is a hormone that helps the body adapt to cellular needs that abruptly change during stress. The blood cortisol consequently rises. The increased cortisol transiently suppresses the thyroid system. Increased cortisol reaching cells of the pituitary gland suppresses TSH secretion. As a result, the reduced TSH reaching the thyroid gland decreases the glands' release of thyroid hormones into the blood. The increased cortisol reaching other cells inhibits their conversion of T4 to T3. The result is a body-wide slowing of thyroid hormone-driven metabolism.

capitaldistrictvitalitycent... : points out that

'People with hypoglycemia tend to have difficulty making the right amount of cortisol at the right times of the day or night. They also have blood sugar levels that spike and then crash throughout the day. If they go too long without eating they experience lightheadedness, irritability, shakiness, a spacey feeling, and other symptoms that signify the brain is not getting enough glucose. In these cases, not only does blood sugar drop too low during the night, but the adrenal glands don’t produce enough cortisol to keep the brain fueled. In response, the body sounds the emergency alarm by releasing “fight-or-flight” hormones. These stress hormones raise blood sugar back to a safer level. Unfortunately, they also raise stress, which can cause anxiety or panic in the middle of the night. Hence the waking up at 3 a.m. and not being able to fall back asleep.'

And canaryclub.org/cortisol-str...

‘Sleep disturbances: Cortisol production follows a curve from highest levels around 8am, dropping throughout the day until the lowest levels are reached about 11pm. In early stages of adrenal fatigue the body compensates with high night time cortisol. In this case the person finds it difficult to relax from the stress of the day and has trouble going to sleep. High night-time cortisol results in reduced REM sleep which is neither restful nor restorative. This can lead to depression and reduced energy levels the next day. In later stages of adrenal fatigue, the body may produce adrenaline ("fight or flight" hormone) in an attempt to compensate for low cortisol. ‘

So hopefully, Seriphos will help level cortisol out. Though according to roslin:

roslin - healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

‘I think the best way of keeping your blood sugar level is to eat a low carb high fat diet or a paleo diet with reduced carbohydrates. I have been able to come off hydrocortisone and have lost almost 9kg in 9 weeks. I follow dietdoctor.com/ ‘

stopthethyroidmadness.com/t... - Circadian T3 Method (CT3M or T3CM) for Adrenals–a great way to treat your low cortisol! – to help keep cortisol level.

[ivy77 in reply to cc120]

Yes that was me panick attacks from blood sugar issues, thank you very much!!

[cc120 in reply to ivy77]

You're welcome and thank you : ).

[cc120 in reply to ivy77]

I think it was blood sugar problem that had me feeling faint every time I stood up all day yesterday. Started Naturethroid approx 3 months ago, gradually rising to 100mg, how much longer do you think before my adrenals/blood sugar gets sorted?

[ivy77 in reply to cc120]

How much t4+ t3 that is? For t4 it takes probably 3 months to stabilize if not 6!!it goes very slow...and t3 effects you can see litteraly in 2 days!.....i must know more info to tell when you will stabilise.....but experience is you should not do too much effort on a therapy if you do then it doesnt fit you for some reason

Feeling faint when you stood up means low blood pressure:-)too, could be from weakness yes so blood sugar as well or iron deficiency and blood sugar issues are more connected to feeling weaknesses all of a sudden, and starving inside...and lack of energy......hypo people often have it! Becasue adrenals are trying to cover up for lack of ft3 in blood

[cc120 in reply to ivy77]

I have been on ferrous fumarate 210mg x 1 a day for over 3 months, with vit C. So iron might be OK, but fainting prob due to blood sugar/low blood pressure. I have also been taking Seriphos, as have been very stressed. But as my cortisol is low in the day and high in the evening and night, I think this can suppress cortisol too much in the day as well as at night, so might also be responsible for my dizzyness?

[Heloise in reply to cc120]

When do you take your Seriphos? My bottle says to take it fifteen minutes before dinner. Perhaps the timing is important.

[menothyro in reply to Heloise]

The Integrative Med Dr. told me take it 1 hr before bed no time on bottle ,so not sure why times are different but when I researched it there are different times to take ..sorry cannot recall the website

[cc120 in reply to Heloise]

Hi Heloise, I'm a bit perplexed as to how Seriphos has affected me. When I first took it, I took 2/3 capsules late afternoon and was really sleepy/whacked out the next two days. Though wasn't sure it was the effect of the Seriphos as can react in that way after a very stressful time, which I was having. But a member suggested abstaining for 4 days then taking half a dose. So had to open the capsule, to split the dose. I imagine this means stomach ingests a lot quicker. Took half a dose early/late afternoon for about a week. Perhaps less stressed, not sure. Then increased to 1 dose but without capsule, to ensure has effect during evening/night rather than next day, for about a week. My brain got a bit fuggy (again not sure this was caused by Seriphos) so reduced back to half a dose. You see, I'm not sure these symptoms are caused by Seriphos or my hypothyroid condition, for which I started NDT approx 3 months ago, increasing gradually from 30mg to now 130mg.

[menothyro in reply to cc120]

I take it at bedtime 1 hr before 2-4 caps..play with the dosing see what happen best wishes cc120

[menothyro in reply to menothyro]

P.S. I was given this for adenal support as well as a scrip for pegnelone maybe look it up

[cc120 in reply to menothyro]

Thank you menothyro.

[Heloise in reply to cc120]

T U CC. I bought mine through I herb.com and read quite a few reviews. Perhaps you could read some which gave it a low rating and see if they had similar problems.

[cc120 in reply to Heloise]

I have read on there and on this forum that some people find that Seriphos completly wacks them out, and therefore discontinued.

[Glynisrose]

Because

a) They are told what they can do by unelected groups such as the BTA

b) It is of no profit to them as they are paid to test and prescribe

and

c) they 'study' the endocrine system for approximately 1 afternoon in all their years at university!!

[menothyro in reply to Glynisrose]

hahaha u r so right on ..nice one

[JLTsirius]

I have a rather enlightened GP - However, when I asked her outright "you don't treat adrenals do you" her response was "NO and in my opinion we are failing very many sick people". So she was able to do nothing and that did not sit well with her......

It's down to us to do our research and find out how to help ourselves. The first thing is to know what your cortisol is doing, this is only avail via private saliva testing. I then bought books, read websites, consulted with a Naturopath and started a regime of supplements to help the adrenals. In addition to that made sure my Iron/Ferritin store/D3 & B12 were all at adequate levels, none of which were.

There is a lot of help on the WWW - But seeing a Naturopath saved me going into a deep decline. None of this is cheap, but waiting for the NHS to 'wake-up' was not an option for me.

best

JLTsirius

[Kitten-whiskers]

Hello Menothyro,

Seems common sadly, It did happen with me - the first endo was arrogant and nasty, resulted in an argument and I really managed to get under his skin - he was shouting and waving his arms at me - They don't like the thruth, but I let my feelings known - Yipppeee, All I got out of it was a blood test (how unusual)

Best wishes

[menothyro in reply to Kitten-whiskers]

Yup ..keep on pushing we all need to do this! XX

[marmaris]

I approached this several years ago and I had to come off hrt for 6 weeks prior to having a short synthathen test which proved I was fine according to them. The Endo was cocky and said "My you know your stuff", of which I replied I was a Nurse in the same Hospital. That seemed to deflate his ego a bit.... I am learning myself about adrenals and I know that I have been under a lot of stress for a long time, I get the afternoon slum, horrible. Any advise please, I take all the necessary supplements but an extra boost is what I need.....

[cc120 in reply to marmaris]

reallyfedup123 on

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

SUGGESTED:

if your adrenals are stressed ensure you take a really good multi vitamin before bed plus at least 1000mg VIT C and Liquorice root tincture which should be available from G Baldwins Herbal Suppliers on the web in London

[greygoose in reply to marmaris]

Actually, what your adrenals need is a rest and time to recover. A 'boost' could just make them worse!

[MissCC]

Most don't care to hear what we have to say . If it wasn't taught to them in med school, they don't believe it. I've been suffering with symptoms for the past eight years , the only help I received was from acupuncture and herbal supplements ; and diet .

[BeansMummy]

I don't think mine knows much about Hashimoto's and the thyroid, let alone I should dare say "adrenals" to her as well. I don't think she would cope too well.

[AddiFeelsCack]

Yes, I too have an idiot for an Endo, my Dr is great, she had her hands tied as had to get the Endo to let me get my adrenals tested, I wanted 24hr saliva test, but he refused and said the urinary collection test would be better for me - WHY? - he also commented on how there was no difference in the tests apart from the saliva test was more expensive. He dismissed daily average temps as "hippy dippy stuff"

They wonder why we get annoyed, if they took the time to actually 'care' for us as the Hippocratic oath they take implies they will we would be heralding them as magic workers.

Sad and miserable

=[

[TSH110 in reply to AddiFeelsCack]

I bet all those hypo people that survived in the days of NDT only would not call it hippy dippy stuff. Feeling cold with hypo I guess we just imagine that. Such a brash display of ignorance and arrogance. Hippy dippy TSH if you ask me - changing all day long and they think that is a scientific and definitive measure of our status they really are very stupid people.

[cc120]

suite101.com/a/hypothyrodis...

What Happens if I Take Thyroxine with Adrenal Problems?

Even if the adrenal insufficiency is slight, it will adversely affect thyroid conversion, tissue uptake, and thyroid response.

If the T4–T3 conversion doesn’t happen as it should, the body can become toxic through unused T4. If it is converted, but the T3 cannot enter the cell walls due to adrenal insufficiency, the T3 cannot be used, and may reach toxic levels. In either case, T4 and TSH blood tests will appear normal, but the patient may feel really unwell. (6) If a physician raises the thyroxine dose in this scenario, the situation worsens still further.

The reaction varies with degrees of adrenal insufficiency. Symptoms may include: a sudden feeling of exhaustion, nausea, headache, inability to concentrate, trembling, muscle weakness, loss of peripheral circulation leading to numbness, lack of muscle control, giddiness, slurred speech, and cognitive impairment.

And as the literature included with this drug points out, the result can be extremely serious in anyone suffering from severe adrenal insufficiency:

“Levothyroxine is contraindicated in patients with uncorrected adrenal insufficiency since thyroid hormones may precipitate an acute adrenal crisis by increasing the metabolic clearance of glucocorticoids [a too-rapid withdrawal of cortisol]. Patients known to suffer from adrenal insufficiency should therefore be treated with replacement glucocorticoids before starting any Levothyroxine sodium treatment. Failure to do so may precipitate an acute adrenal crisis when thyroid hormone therapy is initiated.(2)

Adrenal insufficiency must always be addressed before starting any thyroxine treatment.

[menothyro]

Thx for all the responses, support, shits & giggles about Endo's ..hahaha I believe in stopthethyroidmadness they were rated numero uno for stupidity (incompetent) lol CHEERS ALL!

KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT!! WE CAN STRIP OFF THE INVISIBILITY CLOAK AND REVEAL THIS DISEASE FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS...LIFE DESTROYING!