When Thyroid Hormones Don't Relieve Depression

[PR4NOW]

An interesting article by Dr. Kharrazian with a different perspective. PR

thyroidbook.com/blog/when-t...

[shaws Administrator]

It is more than interesting, I think it is essential reading too, especially for those with Hashi's.

Thanks once again.

I feel some letters with attachments are due to whom I haven't quite decided.

[marram]

Now, THAT's very interesting. The most amazing change was in the face! it was as if she had come alive!

Thanks for this, PR.

[Yana]

When I was first diagnosed I went to the doctor with a variety of symptoms, but the biggest was dead leg. My doctor had said it was a classic symptom of hypothyroidism. Now I'm more inclined to believe it was connected to my gluten problems. Strangely enough it didn't go away entirely until I changed my diet and was properly medicated.

Thanks for that.

[vajra]

Thank you PR. The pieces/research paper linked from this and your other post really do set out the sort of information that makes one go 'ah-ha!!' - why didn't i figure that one out that ages ago.

Scarily so, especially the above which specifically describes the symptoms produced by auto immune interference with the functioning of several neuro transmitters in turn - the symptoms described have been very recognisable facets of my own experience.

Sobering too that while dietary measures may greatly improve the situation, that after time the damage may to whatever degree be permanent.

There has to be some mainstream explanation for the absolute epidemic of dementia our socities have been hit by. We're (my wife and I) on our third parent with this condition, while there wasn't a single case among our grandparents. Bear in mind too that in addition inflammatory/auto immune processes seem to be present in a very large proportion of the diseases that kill most of us these days.

We get blindsided i think by the so frequently trotted out (to thyroid patients/when it suits) professional perspective that depression is (by implication) the result of a lack of moral fortitude/of poor mental hygience (so to speak) - that it just happens, and has no physical basis. (which isn't by the way to say that this is not quite often partially or completely true - mind state is pretty clearly a huge player in these situations)

By this measure depression clearly IS often a part of thyroid and related metabolic illness - not an excuse for continued inability to diagnose or effectively treat it.

It's been my experience too that the elimination of milk and gluten has been necessary to starting to feel fairly well again. My only surpise is that sugar and some food additives don't seem to be mentioned too as they seem to mess me up equally badly - but maybe their effects are more metabolic than brain/neurologically oriented.

You're not the only one Shaws that might feel a few letters with attachments are warranted - it should be a fairly major blow to the catch all diagnosis of 'aw sure it's just a bit of depression, we all get it at our age……' handed out for years to so many of us that actually were seriously ill with hypothyroidism and related complexes of health issues.

I'm not holding my breath for changes to clinical practice. There's a list of pretty daunting impediments to be got past before that will happen - judging at least by my own experience and that of many here:

(a) Just getting a simple diagnosis of hypothyroidism or whatever so that that where possible the replacement aspect of the problem can be dealt with /there is a physical basis (when present) established for symptoms is far from easy - the stock thyroid blood tests don't seem to pick up the many of us producing some T4 but with auto immune thyroid and/or conversion issues (leads to the archetyical 'your thyroid is 'normal', go away…'), and the thyroid anti body and gluten intolerance tests seem far from reliable.

(b) There's minimal practical recognition by most professionals of the significance of (never mind effective holistic treatment methodologies available for) complexes of multiple causative factors and symptoms in this area - gut and gut flora, mind and mind state, thyroid, adrenals, immune system, diet, sleep cycle disturbances etc etc. We're still largely treated for separate symptoms.

( c) Adding another layer of complexity (in the form of the need to match specific depressive symptoms to specific neuro transmitters and to treat accordingly) seems likely to push the possibility of effective responses to the above even further out of reach…

Perhaps the point that we as societies need to take on board is that issues like these need to be dealt with at a more fundamental level - recognising that once 'disease' has been triggered that (while situations can be greatly improved) the horse has in effect left the stable. That an approach focused on treatment of disease cannot deliver.

That preventive measures are required - in the form of deep change in our values. (beliefs about the way we all think, work, live, behave, relate, eat etc)

The good news is that if we reach for a higher principle and view these health scenarios through a 'how we live' lens the causes probably grind down to a realtively few factors - stuff like avoiding actions that are unwise or lack compassion and as a result lead to stress, eating and living healthily, and getting started on some of the sort of mind work that frees us from fear and from being consumed by the urge to chase after stuff we don't really need.

Life shouldn't be an obstacle cource that requires one to reject most of what we are (at east by implication) taught by society.

We shouldn't need to think and live almost entirely outside of societal norms in order to remain healthy - but it seems likely that it'll remain that way for as long as those bent on making a quick buck are left to without challenge market (i.e. repeatedly lie and mislead about) downright toxic and unhealthy foods and other products and arrangements…

ian

[PR4NOW in reply to vajra]

Ian, I am so tempted to make a smart alec comment about 'the Irish and their gift of gab'. However, since the family lore says that we are part Irish and since I suffer from the same affliction at times, I'm afraid it would only turn out to be a case of 'the pot calling the kettle black'.

I do hope that you will write a piece about what you have learned. The only reason I know anything about fetal programming is because of you and all the links you have provided. An overview by you would be useful for others who are struggling down the same or similar path. We need to get it posted on TUK's website because information disappears quickly here on the forum. PR

[vajra in reply to PR4NOW]

Pardon if i'm a bit wordy PR, and (all) please shout if i'm overdoing it. It's not entirely by accident, in that I can write cryptic shorties as well as the next man - but in this sort of situation my inclination is to try to link bits of information to paint pictures (as they occurr to me) for those reading.

That's with a view to helping us to collectively bounce ourselves out of the current and often blinkered way we're societally conditioned to view topics - to step outside of the bubble to truly see not just what is sometimes an 'appalling vista', but also new options for resolution or at least improvement of various health issues.

Yourself and lots of others here with your regular posts of stuff like the above have triggered so many ah-ha moments and connections for me.

It's as above often out of parking bits of information, deferring drawing conclusions at the detail level (not only are these often limited, we having done so tend also to switch off/close to further information), waiting for multiple data points (especially from what's been a pretty long road in personal experience terms) to line up to point to something, and then reaching for a higher integrating perspective/principle (in the best Eastern tradition) that underlying principles and generic solutions emerge.

That's the hope anyway….

I'm reluctant to pitch material definitively, in that i don't feel i have enough knowledge to table it as 'fact'. It rarely is (at the level of specifics) anyway because there's always such a network of variables in play - we each have to walk our own path and apply our own knowing and intuition in making decisions.

That said I think we as a group here do (as a result of our motivation and greater freedom to draw tentative conclusions) manage to bring a degree of joined up and common sense thinking to the complex of issues we discuss. The professionals seem (exceptional individuals aside) so often to be so constrained by personal (i could use less generous language), legal, professional, bureaucratic and speciality related dogma and constraints that 1 +1 rarely is allowed to just make 2…

It's worrying too just how long it takes for research to come through to inform professional practice… Also to think of how little attention is given to prevention in matters like these, it seems that far too many do very well out of the 'illness' industry...

ian

[PR4NOW in reply to vajra]

Ian, that was just an attempt at some gentle teasing, no harm or critique intended. As I said it would be like the pot calling the kettle black. I always enjoy your posts. PR

[vajra in reply to PR4NOW]

Feedback is always welcome PR…

ian

[PR4NOW in reply to vajra]

Ian, it wasn't meant to be feedback, it was just a poor attempt at some humor. PR

[vajra in reply to PR4NOW]

No prob PR, i'm not always the swiftest on picking up cues - and I do tend to write long pieces....

[PR4NOW]

Sandy12, I agree completely that inadequate dosing can lead to continued problems including depression and that it is an ongoing problem. As Drs. Derry and O'Reilly pointed out the average normal dose pre TSH test was 2 to 3 times the average normal dose post TSH test. Most doctors do not understand the limitations of the thyroid function tests and this causes innumerable problems for thyroid patients. PR