sleep and buspar problems?

[Artyhype]

I've been on buspar for about 3 months 5 mg twice a day slept great but started having more anxiety so I upped my dosage but that seemed to give me insomnia... I'm going to back down on my dosage and see if that helps. I also have xanax for sleeping but since no one wants to prescribe that anymore I only use it sparingly (too bad since it works for me ) It's the waking up WAY too early insomnia . any suggestions?

[FreddieFaulenze]

I'm 81 and have learned from my doctor that getting anymore than 6 hours sleep at night is rare for someone of my age. So like I did, plan for 6.

[kaliska0]

Anything that increases serotonin decreases my sleep. I cannot take something like buspar or ssri's at all if I want a chance at good sleep. I get more help from dopamine. The 2 neurotransmitters essentially compete for space in the brain and while dopamine is considered stimulating it is also needed for sleep. Too low or high of dopamine will both cause sleep issues. Wellbutrin is one of the few things I slept normally on but it shot my heart rate up. I absolutely refuse anything based on serotonin despite the current popularity of such meds among doctors.

However, adding in dopamine increasing substances is generally not helpful for the average person and can worsen anxiety for some. Usually it only helps if you have some signs of mild adhd, reduced cognitive ability sometimes summarized as "brain fog", or a history of bad reactions to SSRIs and several serotonin based antidepressants. If you want to test it then basic dopamine increasing supplements would be macuna puriens or l-dopa, l-tyrosine (slight risk of headaches), or for much stronger effect uridine and there are some less common concentrated trace amines.

I would suggest glycine and for added benefits you can take it as magnesium glycinate. Some take 5-10grams worth of mag gly. I would start with 500-1,000mg for a few evenings before testing higher dosages. Glycine has many benefits for sleep and especially can help regulate sleep times. It also improves quality of sleep and amount of rem or deep sleep, which can help make up for lost sleep hours. Unfortunately glycine also doesn't taste so great so higher doses can be difficult to take.

NAD+ also shows promise for regulating sleep timing but in some places it's difficult to get NAD itself. The precursors such as NMN or anything that says nicotinamide in the full name are cheaper and easier to get. They should give much the same benefits but may take longer or higher doses to work. I only take 150mg twice daily of NAD+ and it's overall flavorless.

Benzos like xanax increase gaba. Valerian root is one of the lowest side effect and consistently effective gaba boosters you can generally get without prescription. You can also get gaba itself in various forms as otc supplements but it absorbs very poorly so most have better luck with substances that increase gaba indirectly. Phenibut is probably about the strongest option and frequently used by those with anxiety who can't get good anxiety meds but withdrawal from it can be worse than from benzos. It is usually not recommended if you have limited experience with self dosing supplements and may not be available without a script in some countries.

Also make sure to block out sunlight and noise in the mornings. Some people are just very sensitive to morning sunlight and your sleep is at it's lightest toward morning. Even if you can take naps in the middle of the afternoon with full sunlight exposure you may wake up to to the tiniest bit of morning sun. You can get blackout curtains or sleep masks. White noise machines can also help cover up the noise of morning activity from increased traffic outside or neighbors.

Majority of your useful sleep (deep and rem) typically happens at the beginning of the night so unless you have other sleep disorders losing morning hours has the least effect on your mood, health, and restfulness. That's why very few people complain about waking too early compared to not falling asleep early enough or waking in the middle of the night. There are also genes linked to reduced need for sleep hours. Some are just done sleeping after 6hrs and don't need the typical 8hrs.

If you can still get the same hours of sleep at night and fit in a nap during the day there is no problem with splitting your sleeping hours up. It's actually more natural than trying to sleep 8hrs straight.

[Metabobbly in reply to kaliska0]

There is an interesting question that I am looking at experimentally at the moment as to whether increasing the levels of ketones also moves the GABA Glutamate balance towards GABA. This may be one of those subtle things where a little bit helps, but a lot does not.

There are quite a few ways of increasing the level of ketones some involve reducing glucose and some not.

[kaliska0]

I've looked into ketones some but mostly for energy enhancement to counter chronic fatigue syndrome and to reduce how much effort my body needed to put into processing proteins into enough glucose for energy when reducing carb sources. I have not found GABA imbalance is a cause for my insomnia and altering levels of GABA or glutamate have minimal and temporary improvements so I don't typically research everything for it's detailed effects on GABA like I do some other contributors to insomnia. Anxiety groups might be more likely to have researched GABA in more detail than those with sleep disorders.

Most of the effect of ketosis and even more so supplemented exogenous ketones is still theory. Even in the most complex, detailed articles I have found explaining the effects of ketones on the body GABA is only briefly mentioned. Nearly every article that includes GABA does state that ketones (natural or supplemented) increase GABA and reduce glutamate. They just don't reference good sources that directly studied it. Majority of the info that ketones raise GABA seems to originally be based on ketogenic diets lowering the risk of seizures and GABA lowering the risk of seizures. At some point it appears researchers did prove this was directly related but finding the actual studies that confirm a rise in GABA is the reason ketosis reduces seizures and is the direct result of ketones instead of only theories based around GABA production is a little difficult. Finding the exact quantity of ketones to take for a specific effect is probably not possible until more research is done.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

hvmn.com/blogs/blog/exogeno...

spandidos-publications.com/...

perfectketo.com/ketones-brain/

frontiersin.org/articles/10...

I've taken bhb salts off and on in straight powder and pills with various other supplements. I haven't had a very noticeable effect and no change in sleep. It may not address any of my problems or it might partially be the low doses I took. One major problem with using ketogenic salts is the dosages needed to reach the levels considered most effective usually requires somewhere around 5-12grams each day. BHB salts are probably one of the most disgusting substances out there. I can tolerate the supplement that burns my tongue and makes everything taste weird for hours but I can't get past 1gram of bhb hidden in the strongest flavored drink I could come up with.

Ketogenic esters may work better and are more often used in studies. It takes far less to get a high concentration of BHB. I haven't found a good source for ester forms and even if I did it might be too expensive to be worth it.

[Metabobbly in reply to kaliska0]

There are sources for the Esters in the USA. I have bought some of one of them and will do some experimentation with it at some stage, but I have other priorities at the moment. I have put it in my car as I am going away for a couple of days and may try it there.

I do think the Ketone approach has some merit. I am having a go at the HPA axis at the moment.

Octaonic/Caprylic acid may help as well.

[peaceandfaith]

Hi! Did you go back to taking 5mg twice a day? Do you feel a little better again? I ask because I am considering taking it. My psychiatrist prescribed buspar and Prozac but I’m scared to take both at the moment so I was gonna start with buspar.

[Artyhype in reply to peaceandfaith]

I did but I'm only on day 3 so I'm not sure... it might be affecting my sleep again so I'm dropping down to once a day to see if that helps. It helped so much in the beginning so I'm kind of at wits in and yes 6 hours is enough sleep but I'm talking 3-4 hours of sleep sometimes. Try the Buspar esp if anxiety is your problem. Prozac if depression is your problem

[peaceandfaith in reply to Artyhype]

Thank you so much for the feedback I think I will try maybe just one a day for a week and then add the second. I Just get nervous that I get the side effect of nervousness?? Like why is that even a possible side effect from the med? 😅

[Artyhype in reply to peaceandfaith]

Yeah it doesn't make sense but everyone is different. You should know in about a week whether it's working for you. I also bought some GABA supplement and I think that's helping me get back to sleep.