Part 2 of article

[2everett]

Part 2

[Madlegs1]

Could you provide a link to the original article ,please. Sounds interesting.

If I come off opiates, I'm still left with residual rls. I will need to take some medication for that, unless I go vegan or such like. So, will I be any better off?

I'm quite happy with my low rate of opiate- and it allows me a considerable freedom in my life.

[nightdancer]

I would like the link, too, although I have already read a few things by her. She is part of the medical community that says you can "think away your pain". yes, we need a good attitude, but it is close to impossible to think away a raging RLS attack. Meditation can help, and music, etc, but it is all a combination of things that helps. I would like to read the whole thing, not much info here in 9 million dollars worth of research, which will be some machine or gadget that will make some doctor and some pharma company very profitable, while we fight the "war on drugs" or lack thereof.

[Pluto46 in reply to nightdancer]

I agree. In some cases it's more a case of matter over mind, than mind over matter.

[nightdancer in reply to Pluto46]

mind over matter can help us COPE, but it is surely not going to stop RLS. And this guy is not even talking about RLS. he has never mentioned RLS since he started posting. I wonder if he even knows what it is. So far, I have seen nothing.

[Hidden in reply to nightdancer]

I agree. My brain seems to be quite good at automatically disregarding an 'old' pain so less attention is paid to it. I have a few chronic pains and they don't trouble me much unless i think about them. It's not so much thinking away the pain, which to me suggests you bring it to the forefront of your mind, but your brain learning to ignore it which I learnt is the natural state once your brain recognises it doesn't have to be on the alert for eg a new injury.

But it is totally impossible to think away a restless leg attack. I try not to think about it till it occurs and certainly don't go to bed thinking about it - but it just creeps up on you, often over and over and over again - last night was one of the worst. You've just managed to get to sleep having done everything in your power to turn it off, when ping, there you go again thrashing about, awake but exhausted, knowing there is nothing else for it but to get up again.

Maybe meditation would get you to a zone where it was less likely to occur, but once it's there no amount of thinking and ignoring does anything at all.

[Joolsg]

I think this is more appropriate to a chronic pain forum rather than RLS. The vast majority of RLS sufferers do not experience pain ( although some do experience excruciating pain). Exercise and meditation and diet have been shown to reduce chronic back pain for a lot of people but RLS for most of us is not pain, but abnormal, intense, unbearable, creepy crawly sensations that stop us sleeping.

We would not be able to function without medication. Opioids are a life saver and are taken in low doses for many years without the usual addiction problems ( unless the RLS sufferer has a history of substance abuse or addiction problems).

[Hidden]

Good to see you posting again! I would like to read the full article as well.

In going along with Joolg's reply, maybe we need to define the word pain here. I recently read the book "The Divided Mind", where the author emphasizes relief from physical pain. Could he also mean the "pain" of not being able to stop the leg movements? I rarely get physical pain, but I also describe the uncomfortable sensations as painful.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I don't have pain but the sensation is certainly intensely uncomfortable and very unpleasant - like a pain without physical pain. My brain recognises it as a sort of 'pain' even though it isn't a pain if any of that makes sense to others. I'll even moan in frustration - quietly so no one can hear!

In other circumstances people describe the pain of grief, of anxiety, of depression, of extreme hunger or thirst and many others. To me rls is a cross between physical and mental pain. So is intense and unrelieved itching though that's different as folk know what is being described there.

[nightdancer in reply to Hidden]

In 28 years of managing RLS groups on and off line, I have seen pain described so many different ways. My pain is not someone else's pain, and you are right Alison7, many different ways people think of pain, and many ways to describe it. BUT, I still would like to see this person mention RLS ONCE.

[TASSanee in reply to Hidden]

Hi Alison7 My Mother never sleeps during the night, the itching all over sensation is unbearable, she groans and rocks! Creams herself all the time, even though she knows it’s on the inside. Her RLS moves her legs, massaging just gives her something to focus on... Her pain is in her thighs and legs. She cannot be at peace and sleep in her bed. Just wriggles in pain and sensation. Scratches herself. She is 83yrs has sleep apnoea, cannot put mask on at night because of jerking, now in her arms. Medication seems to be on track after self medicating on morphine and co-codomol! Ended up in hospital, no Morphine. So withdrawals are great NOT. Just heard her go back downstairs to sleep in her chair if she can. How do you live with all this? Nothing helps. 😢

[Hidden in reply to TASSanee]

It feels like it's impossible to live with most nights but then the morning comes, there's a cup of coffee to help and you just keep going. There's a lot of advice on this site. That's a real shame about not being able to put on her sleep apnoea mask as from what I've read sleep apnoea makes RLS worse.

I don't find sleeping on a chair helps. It's the staying still which is the problem. Try to get her to avoid triggers and do some 'switching off ' tactics if she can like eg knitting as that sometimes gives some respite.

I feel for your Mum. I kind of dread having to deal with this when I'm 83. It's hard enough at 67. But I just keep hoping an answer will be found.

I presume she's had checks for iron ( ferritin ) and kidney function etc?

[2everett]

Hi Jess

The author says that the brain can temporarily stop oxygen in whatever part of the body it likes. This causes very ‘real’ symptoms of a condition. It is not imagined. The reason for this is to distract you from something else.

I have been following the work and teachings of Dr Joe Dispenza. He is a neuroscientist who works in the field of neuroplasticity, the brain is not fixed it can be retrained. I am in a group who are reprogramming their minds and recreating new neural pathways and discarding the old ones which carry information on pain. They were created by hyper arousal. My new neural pathways are carrying information on joy and peace within. I now check myself when I start thinking about pain or arguments etc I think of it as a thought and let it go.

My RLS has gone I get mild pain in my ankle but it is decreasing by the day. If you want more info contact me direct.

[Hidden in reply to 2everett]

Hi! I will contact you directly when I have more time, but I don’t see why I have to. You should be just as welcome on here on here as the next person.

[2everett]

Hi

The anger my posts create make me wonder ....

[Hidden in reply to 2everett]

I also think we can all be a bit on the ratty side sometimes as we're all so very frustrated and tired. keep posting!

[nightdancer in reply to Hidden]

Yes, we get all "ratty" because everyone here is exhausted. BUT, if someone is going to keep posting, could RLS at LEAST be mentioned? I think he is on the wrong forum.

[Hidden in reply to nightdancer]

Could well be I agree.