Prescription drugs

[Pam34]

theguardian.com/society/201...

This is only going to make things more difficult for those of us on prescription drugs!

[Hidden]

I HOPE it wont come to that. At least the Prof. in that article is talking sense on why they SEEMS to be more pain meds prescribed than there used to be. And doctors here in the UK, are usually VERY careful on not over prescribing pain meds. I know alot of people who will find they need more and cant get them from their doctor, will actually go to the internet and get them that way. They talk in the article about being dependant on meds, that is a whole lot different to being addicted. Are they going to take insulin away from diabetics because they are dependant on them to stay alive. I HOPE we are not going to have a fight on our hands to keep our pain meds like those in the USA are doing right now. ( I am still a bit sleepy, so i should have said all the meds that have been mentioned in the article. )

[Pam34 in reply to Hidden]

I hope you are right. So far I have not had a problem with my doctor and Tramadol but I expect a battle every time I go!

Travelling to Australia next week and going through UAE airspace - you wouldn't believe the hoops I've had to jump through to get permission to travel with Tramadol!

[Hidden in reply to Pam34]

I get my Tramadol with no problems from my doctor. i also get Tramacet, which is tramadol/paracetamol its a lower dose of tramadol. Well, best you get the right permissions to travel with Tramadol Not like that woman who took all those tramadol to Saudi for her boyfriend.

[Pam34 in reply to Hidden]

Ha - that's what scared me! Can't be too careful.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I think that is very sus - how did she get her hands on that Tramadol considering it is a Class C drug in the UK and can only be got with a prescription. Anyone travelling with drugs needs to keep their prescription with them. I do and I've never had issues.

Did she get it illegally or did she get it for herself and not take it therefore scamming her Dr? I have limited sympathy for her as anyone going to those countries should take nothing more than bottled water and long sleeve tops!

I read one time of a guy who was passing through one of those countries and had a cannabis seed stuck in the grips of his shoes and ended up with him in prison.

Anywhere that will lift you for kissing someone in public is not a place to be complacent in!!

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

It was all over our news. the woman had got them from a friend who said they didnt need them anymore, there were 129 tramadols, she got stopped and arrested. Pleading she didnt know they were tramadol didnt even look at what she had been given by her friend just packed them in her case.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Pleading ignorance doesn't wash any more, who in their right mind would risk a holiday, or worse their freedom like that? She must have known they were pain drugs and were not available in the original country for a reason, a quick look on line would have kept her right if she hadn't heard any of the horror stories from those countries.

[Hidden]

Why is there a problem when people are dependant on opiates to treat a condition and no problems when they are dependant on B/P tablets to control BP problems? Jebus but there is a lot of sh1te around dependence and it is frustrating how little Drs understand about dependence, tolerance and addiction.

In the north of Ireland there are regular reviews on GP's prescribing practices which results in the peoples needing the drugs being put off them while those abusing manage to stay on them!

I suppose there is fears coming from the mess the Yanks are making however as many here will know the US system is a mess and has separate issues than the UK. I hope they manage to leave us poor RLS sufferers alone.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Yes raffs all this is now coming from the USA, where alot is going on to reduce people taking strong pain meds, I belong to FB RLS groups and one in particular, where i see all the info. Even chronic pain sufferers will suffer from having trouble getting their doctor to prescribe the pain meds they need, so not just us poor RLS sufferers. They are all scared over in the US on how they will survive with either reduced pain meds or what they do if they cant even get any of them. So far all i tell them is i HOPE its not something we here in the UK will have to deal with. SO, i hope we dont. Its of course the abusers who are making it hard for those who really really need them when nothing else they have tried works.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Hi Elisse First of all I wanted to apologize for ignoring our rls community lately, have had afib probs and successful surg last week and then was hospitalized with the flu. Am now home and glad to be back. At first I wanted to stay out of the pain med discussion but I find I can't. Though I don't currently take pain med for my rls the day may come when I need them. I feel fearful also about my own future regardingthis. My recent experience has been this: In the last few weeks I've needed both pain meds in the hospital and a prescription to take home and fill. I have no bad hx re RX meds, don't ask for them very often and feel I am probably an example of a patient who takes them sparingly and for the right reasons. Though I got what what was ordered when I needed it there were subtle changes in the way my requests were treated-waiting longer, small lectures on the dangers of the meds, and outright suspicious attitudes from some caregivers that let me know if I really needed them. My doctors didn't make judgments re me but I could see they were feeling pressure about what and how much they ordered. So I feel pressure is being put on everyone. I used to think of my country as having many freedoms but more and more, not only re this med issue, but in other ways, Big Brother is here. I don't know what the answer is but just wanted to weigh in on the subject. Thanks for listening. Also our country's divisiveness and violence seem to be getting worse daily. I'm probably going to be criticized for saying this but the word 'dictatorship' comes to mind.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

And of course the reduction in prescribed drugs is leading to such a boom in illicit drugs by desperate people trying to survive - very sad.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

AND the opportunity for Big Pharma to develop some new, expensive drugs that won't go generic for years and the chance to make more big money on their"safer, miracle" drugs. Ugh!!! (What a cynic I am!!)

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

The other thing, and sorry to go on, is it's not the abusers who are causing the problems with addiction.

Yes, there are abusers, but the main issue is that folk have inadvertently become addicted while being prescribed something which they thought was safe and the problem has crept up on everyone and is now being highlighted which is only right.

I have been retired for almost 7 years and I knew about this issue well before I retired.

Folk would say to be I shouldn't worry and they wouldn't abuse the drugs or become addicted. And my reply would be for the great majority it's not the person but the properties of the drug which is the problem and that I was not accusing them of anything or suggesting anything adverse about them, I was just warning them.

The other thing, which doesn't seem to apply to RLS ( but it might ) is that when pain starts folk find them very effective eg for arthritis, back pain etc but recent trials have shown that in fact the folk are often eventually not getting any real benefit when tested against placebo and the pain killers work much better taken occasionally. Ie they think they are working but in fact in testing they have lost their effectiveness if they are asked to categorise level of pain.

Folk think their pain eg arthritis pain has got worse but in fact the painkillers have lost their effectiveness due to regular use.

This is a completely different story for cancer pain when there is no problem prescribing more and more to keep folk pain free.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Also, this whole mess is creating, I believe, a lot of unnecessary anxiety in patients who use drugs responsibly and now have to worry what will be available-and at what price- when they need them.

[nightdancer in reply to Hidden]

Lately, this is exactly what I work on now, most of my time is taken up with this in the US. My RLS groups have MANY people who can only get relief from pain meds, including me. People are mad, scared, and shaking in their boots. We are fighting HARD every day, I work with the Pain News Network and the Chronic Pain Network. Half the info being put put there is "scare tactics", and it is working, SADLY. But, I will not be intimidated and will fight with my last breath our rights to be on medications that help us lead a normal and functional life!! Thank GOD, they just legalized marijuana in the state I live in, as of July 1st. We have had medical marijuana for a decade or more, but now it will be totally legal. it is my salvation, especially for chronic pain and sleep. But, I also need my pain meds to survive and to function. and, at least half the people in my groups HAVE to take pain meds to get an relief from RLS.

[Hidden in reply to nightdancer]

I'm in the same boat as yourself, I need opiates, all other drugs either don't work or end up causing more hassle than they are worth.

The Drs always throw dependence at you as if it is the only thing people can get dependant on. I am happy to be dependant on an opiate if it leaves me pain and RLS free, equally I'd be happy dependant on paracetamol if it did the same!

[involuntarydancer in reply to Hidden]

Oh but Raffs, surely you can appreciate that there is no potential high for the high bp sufferer from his meds. The fact that yours could be enjoyable and make you feel a pleasant mellowness means you must be punished and have them taken away. What happens about your rls I hear you scream? Scream louder; but in the dead of night when no one will hear you.

[Hidden in reply to involuntarydancer]

I know the drugs can cause a high - although I've yet to feel said high - so that makes them bad, bad for business - I'd really need a drug that removes the RLS but causes other problems Big Pharma can then prescribe more drugs for.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

No, drs do understand about dependance, tolerance and addiction!

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I believe most doctors do understand but over here (US) they are losing their independence and ability to make the best decisions for their patients not only re pain meds but in other ways because the government is grabbing more and more control and, in my opinion, has a punishment attitude toward many things now instead of a helpful problem solving approach. What is that saying about cracking one walnut with a sledge hammer?

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I will have to disagree with that, well in Ireland and UK anyway.

I know several people working in addictions, I am friendly with GP's, SHO's, nurses and in the past I was very friendly with a consultant psychiatrist and I have a deep interest in addiction brought on by family and friends suffering.

I have read reams of research and spoken with Drs and I can testify in court sworn on a bible they do not have the correct knowledge and often mistake dependence for addiction.

GP's are sign pointers with a little knowledge on many things, unfortunately as has been shown by a multitude of research GP's have poor knowledge of addictions and indeed mental health.

They may understand what each word means, (anyone who picks up a dictionary can), yet they fail to understand the causative factors and the interplay between them, the drug, the situation and history of the patient.

If GP's understood addiction there would be no addiction services!

Plus, prescribed drugs aside, they have little knowledge in the illicit ones which further compounds the problems

[nightdancer]

The UK is following the lead of the US. The statistics that are always used NEVER mention illicit drugs like heroin and counterfeit Fentanyl. You really have to dig deep to find statistics that are not "pills only". The CDC admits the statistics are skewed on their web site, and so does the DEA. And, now other countries are using the "fake opiate crisis" in the USA to further their agenda. This is no help at all. A friend from the UK sent me this this morning, I and my heart sank, now we have to defend the world, not just the US. This is a nasty and dangerous trend, groups of addiction "specialists" are the ones pushing this, paying off Congress, the DEA is dirty and so is the CDC. They do good things in some cases, but not on this issue. They are lying, they never mention the heroin overdoses. The pharma companies are in charge of this, with other "safer meds" being developed, it all comes down to $$$$$$$

[Hidden in reply to nightdancer]

So true. I believe we (USA) are the greediest country on the planet re meds. I just filled my Tamiflu prescription. I have medicare plus an excellent supplementary insurance company that I pay a sizeable monthly premium for. Each Tamiflu pill cost me a $10.00 copay. Welcome to the wonderful world of Big Pharma. I wonder what type of prescription coverage THEY have? Also when I was in the hospital last week I discovered there is a shortage of the plastic IV bags US hospitals use. Seems a factory in Puerto Rico that was totally destroyed in Hurricane Irma manufactured many medical supplies for the US. They haven't been able to rebuild because of lack of funds.

[Hidden]

I don't think it will make much difference. It's been something that's been known about for a good while.

Basically though Drs are damned if they do and damned if they don't. There is huge pressure from patients to prescribe these things for pain, RLS etc and a large amount of complaining if they are restricted and then a large amount of complaining that Drs didn't take enough care if addiction occurs which it does.

If folk are advised that they don't work long term and to keep doses low folk kick off and say they are being deprived to save money etc, same as occurred for ages when the 'antibiotics don't cure viruses' message was being explained and now you get both that and also 'these drs hand out too many antibiotics'.

The same occurs with antidepressants. There were campaigns to make sure depression wasn't missed and to make sure antidepressants are prescribed for long enough and now 'drs are handing out too many' despite access to talking services being so poor.

Drs are the trained ones with the privilege and huge responsibility of being able to prescribe. The vast majority take this seriously and try to do their best for each patient. It can't be that patients just ask and are given.

I understand the nightmare of RLS myself though and how desperate we all are for some decent sleep.

Some years ago many might have complained if there was no access to DA's and now there are complaints of overprescribing!

It is not easy!

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Going to have to disagree again Alison7. What Dr worth their salt will prescribe an antibiotic for a virus? What Dr prescribes what the patient demands and not what they want to prescribe?

I am assuming that you live in the US where you have a little more leverage on your GP. In Ireland and UK it isn't as easy to get what we want/need and I have had to spend over a year teetering on the edge of suicide as I couldn't get the correct drugs as the GP would not prescribe until I was seen by pain clinic. If opiates were that freely available I wouldn't have had to plan my suicide!

I appreciate that when things go wrong they blame the GP but I would say much of that blame is justified, ( I was never warned about DA side-effects and I was stopped dead with no withdrawal with them which we all know here is not the correct action).

Equally many are prescribed potent drugs and never reviewed and are left with a load of drugs they no longer need and they then make their way onto the black market

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

No, I'm a retired GP from Scotland.

But let's not argue. You are entitled to your view and I am entitled to explain mine from my different perspective. I just know first hand what it was like, how things constantly evolved since I began my student days in 1969 till I retired in 2010, what the pressures were and still are etc in all fields and also what a difficult job it was to get right. I doubt there was anyone who tried harder than I did to be as perfect as I could be, keep as up to date as I did in all fields, pass on as much info as possible and to understand as much as possible. I couldn't have lived with myself otherwise.

I always hate it when the Drs are the fall guys. Folk don't understand how intricate the systems are, how fast things evolve etc and I think it is counterproductive to blame drs. We will get on best if we all work together rather than adopt a blame culture or imply that Drs don't care. It is bloody hard work and stressful and no one would do it if they didn't care.

For many years it has been obligatory to review repeat prescriptions. That is exactly why folk prescribed opiates are contacted and questions asked.

I know what I and my colleagues did and what happens in Scotland. I don't know about Ireland but I do know about here.

I have truly awful RLS and understand everyone's desperation. I would do anything to get in fixed. But I won't blame the wrong people.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I in no way would say the GP's jobs are easy. As much as I bitch about Drs, like in all walks of life there are good and not so good. Knowing many people in the health field I understand the constraints and nonsense that governed your practice, I'd have found it desperately frustrating and indeed I spoke recently with an ex-GP who left due to the restrictions that confined his practice.

Unfortunately there are those in the medical field that are convinced of their own correctness leave little room for the view and knowledge of the individual. I have come across Drs who knew less than me in the particular situation yet refused to listen to me as I had sourced my information online, (obviously not looking at the BMJ or NICE on the web!). Equally I have had a Dr turn to me and say what way do you want to treat this? A fantastic approach.

The problem I have is for the ordinary man - if I go to a car showroom and say I want a family car that is economic and a good runner and he says he thinks I need a 1964 MG then I can very easily see he is wrong and go elsewhere - If I go to a Dr and say I have RLS and need help he may decide I need a high dose of a DA when in fact I need an opiate and as an ordinary citizen I don't know. THEN when I do go and learn and even using the guidelines they are meant to use they demand to try a different route. At times like those the mind boggles.

Personally speaking if I have to level blame it is on the politicians who are in the keep of big pharma and the ridiculous drug laws with the 2016 NPS legislation being the most blatant and recent example of this.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Yes, I know how frustrating it all is for all sufferers of RLS. No one gets how awful an effect it has on your life. Right now I am slumped on the sofa aimlessly watching TV as I have no energy to do anything else, half dozing.

Arrogant Drs who won't listen and who get apparently riled by folk who come armed with expert info are a nightmare. We were always advised how 'expert' a patient is about their own conditions. In fact I used to go to training days where it had become mainstream to have an 'expert' patient as one of the speakers and even though I thought I was understanding sometimes I was chastened to hear what it was like from their point of view.

Unfortunately though as we all know there is a lot of nonsense on the internet as well and Drs have to be very careful to sift through all they are presented with and make sure it is real evidence and not 'fake news' and we also do have guidelines to follow.

If you prescribe 'off licence' or not within guidelines as a GP and something goes wrong it is not defensible whereas the more specialised you are the more that is OK. That is why sometimes folk have to be referred to the specialist services so that it is OK.

We RLS folk are all desperate and exhausted and very short of sleep so it makes it all a nightmare.

The same knowledge update necessity applies in every condition a GP sees though. Everyone with every problem needs/ wants their GP to be as expert as possible but they can't be experts in all fields and need time to see patients as well as study non stop. They are also constantly bombarded with updates on everything under the sun and there isn't time to read it all!

And yes there are constant 'tick boxes' which make the work even harder to do properly and according to patient needs.

There is now a big recruitment problem for both training as well as retaining GP's and shortages in other specialties too. So we need to look after the ones we have as well as them trying to look after us!

I too share your frustration and have had my own share of Drs who won't or can't listen, specialists as well as GPs. But that is due to their own personalities not the fact that they are Drs.

Anyway, end of from me on this subject!

[lee1983]

I have a whirlpool tub and when I have done all I can and nothing works I get in my tub with very hot water and sometimes it help I may do it 2 time a night. the doctors don't have a answer either sometime I walk in my driveway until 4 in the

morning I dont think there is a answer I am 74 been a widow 3 times and have

a large house and lot of land and I work just as long as I can stand up. that is how

I deal with it. they say I have completed grief n (no kidding) we will all get to the end some day. carolyn