Phased return

[Helliwelli12]

Just finished my 2nd phased return now back at work. Had a meeting with my boss and hr yesterday and have been told if my error rate does not improve in 2 weeks they may pursue termination under capability. Personally I'm struggling to do my work due to my condition maybe its time to let go. The question is do I hand my notice in now or just let them go through the process. Surely they will have to pay me before they let me go. Does anyone have any personal experience of this situation any advice would be helpful.

[Kendrew]

Hi Helliwelli12,

I had 3 phased attempts to return to work as a teacher in a nursery class at a primary school, but like yourself, I just wasn't able to work efficiently & at full capacity, and take care of my health in the way I needed to.

My headteacher and SLT were very supportive though and it was finally decided after regular meetings throughout this whole time with HR and OH that proceedings to medically retire me would be put in place.

This involved an independent medical assessment and a few documents to sign but was fairly straightforward and meant I was entitled to claim Employment & Support Allowance for the past 2½yrs till reaching state pension age this year.

It wasn't a huge amount but it definitely helped and its not means tested.

If you're struggling to do your work and it's not supporting your condition or health & well-being, then I personally think its time to accept that changes need to be made. You have to put your health first here. Pushing through most definitely doesn't work with PMR/GCA.

I was desperately upset to have to leave the job I'd done for over 15yrs and had loved with a passion, but I quickly realised that I'd made the right decision when I began to experience vastly reduced stress levels, no pressure to be at work each day and significant improvements in my condition.

For the first time I was able to focus on just myself and what I needed.

If you're near retirement age then I'd definitely think carefully about just handing your notice in though, and consider the option of being officially medically retired if you haven't already. (Sorry....nothing much on your bio)

Other factors to maybe consider:

- have your employers made 'reasonable adjustments ' to allow you to return to work

- have you had an appointment with OH (you should have access to an Occupational Health officer/team, and I think I'm right in saying an OH health report would be required before you were 'let go' on medical grounds.)

I wish you all the best and hope things reach an agreeable outcome for you.

[Helliwelli12 in reply to Kendrew]

Thanks for your advice I am 60 so wanted to work a few more years. I definitely won't hand my notice in as I have too much to loose

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Helliwelli12]

Believe me - early retirement can turn into something pretty good! Just because you can't manage one job because of ill-health, it doesn't mean there aren't other equally valuable things you can do. It gives you many options from part-time to voluntary work while being "paid" for doing it as a pensioner. Retirement on medical grounds usually means you get a full pension, not one reduced for the years you went early. And taking the stress of "needing an income" away can have a very beneficial effect on your health. Stress doesn't play well with PMR or GCA and you have both a stressful job and the stress of a threatening boss.

Not sure what extra training will achieve ...

[Helliwelli12 in reply to Kendrew]

Thanks I've had assessment from oh and they are giving me additional training but it is a very pressured job and I do feel like my boss is on a vendetta to oust me out.

[Kendrew in reply to Helliwelli12]

Just make sure you explore your options before making any decisions and if necessary organise a chat with a legal advisor....most offer a free half hour consultation or a reduced rate consultation with no further obligation. High pressure jobs unfortunately are not particularly compatible with managing PMR/GCA effectively.

Wishing you well though.

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer]

Very difficult situation for you, but I’d say don’t hand in your notice, that way you’ll probably walk away with nothing.

They have suggested termination, so let them go down that route… that way you will be entitled to certain benefits from your employers and afterwards from the state.

But you do need advice…. from OH and HR internally and maybe CAB externally.

All the best.

[PMRpro Ambassador]

Have you a union rep? You urgently need independent advice as to YOUR rights so you don't forgo any benefits or awards you are entitled to. But I wouldn't just capitulate and hand in my notice because then they can say it was your choice,

[SnazzyD]

I think voluntarily leaving employment is not a good thing as you might close the door on any potential payments around the reason for leaving, your health. Perhaps Citizens’ advice bureau could advise. I can appreciate it is so hard, but so soon after diagnosis to be working under pressure is a monumental effort and drain on your body which will almost certainly slow your recovery.

[Helliwelli12 in reply to SnazzyD]

Yes it's really difficult but I am taking heed of everyone's advice so definitely not quitting

[herdysheep]

I echo all that has been said. Definitely do not hand in your notice. I went back to work after 6 mths on sick leave but I would have been better off being retired on medical grounds instead of thinking I need to get back.

You need good advice and may be someone helping you negotiate the outcome.

[Sharitone]

I had to give up after an attempt at a phased return. It was just too hard. Here is some info which should be helpful.

citizensadvice.org.uk/work/...

citizensadvice.org.uk/benef... - for info on statutory sick pay

citizensadvice.org.uk/work/... to check you have been paid anything owing to you.

I was working for Citizens Advice. We always used to advise people not to resign because it could make you voluntarily unemployed, which means you may get sanctioned for some months, ie not get any benefits. However, that was not for people who had to give up because they were sick. If you want advice on your particular case, you could contact CA. Ironically, CA themselves were very reluctant to dismiss me, and in the end I had to resign!

[Rose54]

contact ACAS thay will advise and support you

[Bcol]

Hi there, agree with the previous comments, so don't resign, let them go through the process of showing where they made adjustments in the work place to accommodate your illness, which by law, they have to do. If that has not happened and they dismissed you, you would have a case for unfair dismissal at an industrial tribunal. Citizens advice is a good idea if you do not have a union to back you.

[CygnusX1]

If you're in a union then speak to them asap. If PMR is covered under the disability strand of the Equalities act 2010 then the company must make reasonable adjustments - this can mean altering your workload to help with the error rate. They certainly can't just fire you if you're covered under the act/law. And if it were to go to tribunal and they lost you'd be receiving a payout. The question is whether PMR is covered as a disability ?

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to CygnusX1]

I think it is - been discussed many years ago and I think it was then.

[Helliwelli12 in reply to CygnusX1]

It is GCA I suspected of having is this covered?

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Helliwelli12]

If it affects your ability to work, then it should be covered. Contact the ACAS helpline for more advice

acas.org.uk/what-disability...

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer]

This subject was discussed in a previous post -

healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk...

[Abcd123455]

not sure if somebody has already said this already as I haven’t read through all the posts. I would definitely suggest you do not hand in your notice. If you need to apply for anything like universal credit or support to add to your finances it would go against you if you voluntarily left. It’s a horrible place to be I completely understand, but you need to ride it out for financial reasons if nothing else. Good luck.

[Rubha]

I was a union rep for EIS (Scottish teaching union) and I would not advise leaving voluntarily. Teaching is a very stressful job and not a sedentary one as many people think. I am also not sure how much an OH professional could actually help in teaching. However, your head can put things in place to reduce your stress levels e.g. reduced class contact /size/ PSA assist etc. Personally , I’d go down the route of letting « them » let « me » go as you have access to much more financial assistance. Good luck .

[Indigo2417]

I echo the comments above about not handing in your notice. I was in a job some years ago that had a number of targets and I wasn’t meeting all of them. I wasn’t ill then, but it was stressful. I was trying to do a thorough job and in doing so not meeting a target. It’s easy for your boss to make you feel like a failure because of that. I feel that your boss is trying to make you feel like a failure so that you resign. Is it possible to take someone in to your meetings with them? It might help you to feel a bit more confident if you have some support and your boss might not feel so inclined to bully you if there is a witness. If they do ‘let you go’ it won’t be because you are a failure. You don’t need such a stressful job if you are trying to cope with an illness and you don’t need a bullying boss either. Get some advice as others have suggested above. It won’t necessarily be easy going through it, but hopefully once it’s done, you can feel a bit of relief and be able to reassess what you want to do from there. My very best wishes to you.

[neas999]

NEVER resign or ADMIT you can not do the job if you have a union get them involved because if they terminate your employment you could have good grounds for wrongful dismissal at a tribunal. be careful and good luck

[Noideas]

If you have any more meetings with HR take someone with you and get them to take notes, union rep if possible

[Koalajane]

I hope you get this sorted soon. It can’t be doing your health any good at all as it is so stressful.

Please get advice as soon as possible from Citizens Advice. I think you have said that you are not in a Union but you should not be being treated in this way.

[Bignorhill]

I presume you are in the UK. Your employer can terminate you for capability but some clear targets need to be set for you to achieve and it certainly not a 2 weeks and you are out scenario. As some else said you should be asking if there is another role you could do or there are adjustments that could be made. Under UK employment law now you can ask for reduced or more flexible hours, say work slightly longer on some days and take a day off, they must give reasons why they can not accommodate.

As always with HR issues make sure you document what is said and request a witness to attend any disciplinary meetings. Ask for the minutes of any meetings held and request access to your file to see what the employer may have already put on record.

As an employer I hate the tactic of getting signed off sick but while you are signed off it is difficult to question your capability but if sickness persists they can start to go down the medical route but that takes more time.

[S4ndy]

I agree with what everyone has said. Do not hand in your notice. This will effect future benefit entitlement.

If you are unable to fulfill your job because of sickness then my advice to you is to get a fit note from the doctor. Fit notes don't just have to be cancelled/cannot work. They can also be for reduced hours or duties if this is appropriate.

I imagine that you have a pension where you are and so it may be better to go for medical retirement. Is this an option worth investigating?

I had to give up my business when I became really ill with PMR on top of several other conditions. It was becoming impossible for me to cope with all the driving etc. Best thing I did for my health but it was very stressful at the time. Hope you get a resolution x

[Wizards]

I know I'm in Canada but we all suffer. My Dr had me on a 3 mos leave trying to figure out what was happening. At the end of 3 mos still not diagnosed and back to work pt. I couldn't do it and I walked in his office and told him the day in the life of me.

He said I know what you have and I went off on long term till retirement. It was a struggle to get benefits it Canada through my work insurance but I hired a lawyer that works for the insurance companies and I won.

Moral of the story don't give up and look into your avenues.

Good luck.

[Hulotsholiday]

Sorry to hear of your difficulties. My advice is DONT under any circumstances walk away. You’re covered by the Disability Discrimination Act and you can’t be bullied or harassed into leaving. Your employer must meet stringent obligations to help you. Keep written records of every meeting or contact with times and date. Have a witness if possible. Keep a record of how you’re made to feel. I’d suggest Union or advice from have a look at the Benefits and work site. I’ll check the link and post as an edit to this. .

benefitsandwork.co.uk

[random901]

Hi Helliwell. Lots of good advice here. You mention "vendetta". Please don't think you are being paranoid. My demon headteacher certainly waged a personal vendetta on me, to the extent he'd come around to my house to post things in person - it gave him a feeling of control, I think. DO keep a log recording not only incidents and conversations, but also how they made you feel, and DO get union or some legal representation involved ASAP (wish I had sooner) as Hulotsholiday suggests. Shocked to read emails (retrieved by union) written between said headteacher and other members of staff gathering "ammunition" against me. Almost went to tribunal but my cardiologist advised against this because of stress involved. Hope your situation is resolved before it becomes detrimental to your health. Oh, and as PMRPRO says, retirement can result in happy changes! Best wishes 💐

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to random901]

Amazing how much less retirement living costs compared to working too isn't it!!!

[Stills]

I don’t have PMR but a chronic debilitating rheumatoid condition. I managed my desk job which was very stressful until the pandemic closed the company down. Aged 60 then , with plans to retire at 62/3 I have not worked since and don’t intend to. My point is that being relived of the stress has helped my mental and physical wellbeing enormously and I didn’t realise the terrible weight the role put upon me until I stopped doing it. However my advice is like most here, do not resign. I wish you all the best