Interesting article about the benefits of cold water therapy on inflammation and the immune system. Anyone any experience? MtS
Cold showers: Interesting article about the... - PMRGCAuk
Cold showers
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Mervetheswerve
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there is no way I am trying Wim Hof’s ideas.
I wish I had the courage…I hate being cold. I may, I repeat may, give it a go tomorrow.
I won’t !
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The only thing cold water achieves for me is I seize up! I can't even do an aquafit class in a cooler pool. The only non-pharmaceutical thing that helps me is heat - thank goodness for hot water bottles and I have to say the electric blanket I just decided to get does help the back pain, The idea came from the heated seat in my new car!!!!
I agree about heat helping. Did you see this article in the Guardian: theguardian.com/lifeandstyl...
(Yes of course it was the headline was clickbait for me!)
Yes, saw it too, My daughter has a heated poncho - loves it!
Same here. Being cold reduces me to a stiffened up lump of pain! A hot shower with the water on my neck and shoulders is the only way I can get going in the morning. My 'best friend' is a heated back and neck 'jacket, it's like someone giving me a soothing hug. Heated car seats are wonderful aren't they!
I'm a convert - and to automatic too!
I'm with you PMRPRO, hot wheat packs on my back, very soothing, and electric blanket in the winter! Also I recently read some research that cold water therapy can cause cardiac arrest, the opinions on it seem divided now. I'll stick with heat every day.
I imagine if you aren't used to it and try to start off at the hardcore end, you are at risk of the same cardiac shock seen in holidaymakers who dive into a relatively cool pool when the outside temp is in the upper 30s/lower 40s.
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer
No thanks…
I wondered if readers were aware of any research having been done. I may give it a try….watch this space.
Take a listen to this on BBC sounds. bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001s...
I have been thinking about asking about this. Heard that needs to be at least 30 seconds to have effect and have been doing this at the end of morning shower. Have heard that is definitely beneficial to immune system. Look forward to hearing more !
The most likely sources will be German - finishing your shower with cold water is commonly recommended to improve the immune system. As is Kneipp therapy - walking in cold water in special paths or short use of cold water jets at home.
kneipp.com/us_en/hydrothera...
unesco.at/en/culture/intang...
Several of the villages around here have built Kneipp facilities for tourists to use - often free of charge.
My rheumy has been telling me one of her other male patients jumps into ice bathes daily he told her it helps with his PMR pain for about 8hrs I fear I would cramp up and be unable to get out of the creek lol but cold water obviously works for some I admit there are days when I would be willing to try it or just about anything else
Last summer it was very hot. One one evening I decided to have a swim. Just a few lengths. The water was very cool but not particularly cold. After I'd been out for about half an hour I started to feel very strange. I couldn't remember what we'd done that day, and kept on asking the same questions over and over again. My OH said I asked one question at least 6 times. He was concerned enough to suggest a hospital visit but things improved half way through the night and I was back to normal by the morning - well, my kind of normal! It must have been the extreme differences in temperatures that caused such a reaction and I'm not in a hurry to try it again.
Possibly but it is typical of something called Transient Global Amnesia and the time scale fits too. I have had 3 and the local hospital told me after I had a pacemaker fitted they think they were probably caused by inadequate oxygen supply to the brain - I'd been having bradycardic episodes, hence the pacemaker, I haven't had one since. It is possible the cool water after the excessive heat of the day was enough.
The ED consultant in Durham UK recognised it the first time - the physician on take that night didn't and wrongly ascribed it to a TIA (he was useless, misogenistic and lazy!). I've had 2 here - correctly identified both times. In the UK I was told it was a one-off, they never happened again - not true. My husband took me straight to the ED the first time he was so scared it was a stroke. Me - don't remember anything about any of them except suddenly "waking up" on the ward. It is a good way to go through A&E!!!!
mayoclinic.org/diseases-con...
Thanks for taking the time to respond, PMRpro. When it happened we google'd and found that my symptoms were probably Transient Global Amnesia so decided to leave things overnight and all was OK the following morning. A bit scary though.....
No way, man!
I haven't heard of that but I have heard of some kind of cold therapy. Theoretically it sounds kind of logical but I couldn't do it!!!
I started cold showers about 2 years ago. I do it after exercise and helps me to quickly recover. It is very refreshing. Not sure about impact on immune system, but I definitely helps in muscle recovery. In fact today I did about 90 min mountain bike ride and then took cold shower.
So I did try this twice a week for two minutes for a few months. Yes it def help my pains & I felt great. But it only lasted two hours so only good for a limited time Now it's winter tbh I don't fancy it till Spring
I go in the sea with friends regularly we stay in about 15-20 mins maximum and it really does help ease the joints but for me it makes me feel good and definitely uplifts. We live in north east so it’s very bracing. We do wear wet suits which helps buffer you against the cold. Started during lockdown.
rather you than me, I get cold in the summer so I’d never be able to do it, I even got hypothermia in hospital last year because a lady wanted the window open during the night, they had to put lots of blankets on me and shut the window.
I have been doing this for a few months and then got covid and chest infection to follow, so I don’t know that it’s helped! I didn’t have any pmr symptoms though and successfully reduced to 0.5 mg steroids so I think I’ll keep it up.
The only thing that would worry me is that it says it “optimises the immune response”. I thought we need to suppress our immune system response when we have PMR rather than optimise it. 🤔
I thought the exact same thing....
I'm an open water swimmer and swim in cold water regularly. When pmr hit in October i had to stop but i bought a cold wdter tub and dip in that daily. Only had to break the ice twice 😂. It has helped mye no end I'm sure..both physically by easing the aches and pains and mentally. Might not suit everyone though. Submergion is meant to have more benefits than a shower. I'm back to swimming now but still dip daily when i dont swim.
I think this has to be approached very cautiously: sudden exposure to very cold water if you’re not used to it is dangerous. On the other hand, I regularly swim in a cool swimming pool, and always end my (otherwise hot) showers with a few seconds on cold. These things certainly make me feel better. I hate swimming in warm water: it’s like pushing against a wall; if you’re a competent swimmer, you soon warm up in cool water; and the very brief cold shower is refreshing. I also enjoy the benefits of a warm bath and bed. For what it’s worth - this is very unscientific - I occasionally get a heavy cold, but otherwise I’ve remained infection-free for some time. I have never had COVID, although I didn’t isolate any more than the general guidelines. I don’t want to jinx this record by making any unjustified connections, but regular exposure to cool or cold water doesn’t seem to have done me any harm.
I found that going in our unheated outdoor pool made my aches and pains worse, so no thanks!
I find a swim in cool water very soothing and it really really does seem to help my stiff and sore muscles and benefit lasts for 2 or 3 hours, which may seem somewhat paradoxical, since generally it is warmth that usually helps me. I even posted yesterday that I wondered if the cold water has benefits for the inflammation, as it seems to be so. When I hurt all over, starfishing in bed on the leccie blanket is pure heaven. I also find that a sauna helps me loosen up, so a cool swim followed by a sauna for 10 minutes is ideal for me. Otherwise, cold makes me seize up and I have never been a fan of icing injuries either. So I will pass on the cold showers. The apparent benefits of cold showers isn't a new thing however.
Increased blood flow at a guess, however it is caused. See No 3
uclahealth.org/news/6-cold-....
And No 5 mentions reducing inflammation. Whilst I think I will forego the cold showers, it's heartening to think that not only do I enjoy swimming, but that it might actually be doing me some good aswell.
I've always thought that improving circulation would be an integral component in recovery from this illness, so maybe I am on the right track. And incidentally, one of the key aspects of yoga is claimed to be that it is meant to unblock congestion and improve the circulation. Without going too far off topic, I hope, I just got back from a new beginner's yoga starting up where I live. And it really is total beginner's level. The tutor is a stroke survivor and her speciality is helping people with disabilities to reach their potential. I managed quite a lot of it, even though I am very tight atm. I've got a good feeling about this one, so far, and I hope that it will help to get some of my flexibility back. It will be interesting to see if I am capable of getting out of bed tomorrow morning. 
Hmm - I always have said my best times pre-pred were in the evening after a glass of wine with dinner ...
I did Iyengha yoga once a week after having done an aquafit class in a warm pool until I moved here. I credit them and Pilates with keeping me upright back then pre-pred. No affordable options here though.
Gosh, I have no idea what kind of yoga I did, I had to look up Iyengha yoga. If I had to give it a name, I would say that it is half way between yoga and light physiotherapy.
It was fairly gentle, but I felt that I had worked. I recognised some of the poses, and she had to adapt quite a lot for me, because of how tight my hips and knees are. Luckily, I thought to pop some blocks and a towel in my bag.
Tried it - the effect on my sinuses was horrific. The worst headache ever. I tried it thrice in a week - ended up making myself very ill with sinusitis. Perhaps it works only if you don't have other conditions,
I have done this for years, started to help me get into cold British sea as I like sea swimming. I turn it to stone cold for 30 seconds at the end, but then turn it back to tepid for a couple of seconds before getting out of the shower. I can only say that I can get into cold sea, I haven't had any colds in the five or six years since I've been doing it and my knee and ankle arthritis have improved dramatically. I had PMR eight years ago and have been on 0 pred and been fine with no symptoms or flares since 2017, but I've no idea whether the cold water helped at all! Michael Mosley also recommends it.
Thats fantastic to hear! I haven't been in the sea since September after having some bad news and have lost my mojo but I am determined to get back in by March - I am in North East Nofolk so. I have plenty of places I can go from the Broads to the coast = well done you!
In the far reaches of my memory I have a feeling the comment " good for the immune system "relates to white cell immunity rather than the auto -immune dysfunction we have. I may be wrong. PMRpro?
Few "mights" floating around here in the list of 6 benefits!
uclahealth.org/news/6-cold-....
Germans also swear by going out in all weather to stimulate the immune system. I do think overheated stuffy homes don't help!!!!
I engage in Wild Swimming once the heating is off - strictly March-October for me and Ihave to say it makes your skin firmer and is invigorating, and the company - having a good laugh ladies make it all the better in my experience.
Cold water has been proven to help in all sorts of ailments and humours over the years and I think its restorative and fun!
Hi Mervetheswerve,
Yes it’s good for the calming the vagus nerve, it’s the longest nerve that runs through the whole of your body and organs, or even going cold sea dipping. It helps with inflammation and calming the nervous system down, they say to start with warm shower then turn gradually so it’s gets colder each time you do it so you get used to it, well worth it if you can do it and it does make you feel better 😁
I did 6 sessions in an ice cold chamber. It was miserable and did nothing for me that I am aware of😏
Hi all long time no see. I asked this question 12 months ago and have been using the Wim Hoff method ever since and with the breathing and cold showers , start slow 15 second, you build up very slowly only do what you can manage and I have never looked back. There is lots of evidence that it works it resets the immune system. My horrific skin condition has healed, my pain is manageable not none existent but much much better. I feel strong, well and my sleep has improved. I have lost near 5 stone . I rarely get ill a real 360. The effect after is like the feeling you get when you have been in the sea plus a sense of euphoria. There are lots of pod casts if you won’t to check it out. Wim Hoff recommends the showers before doing cold plunge but obviously each to their own. If you have any sort of heart condition you should be very careful but otherwise I can highly recommend.😀
Brilliant Hiibilly. I’m build up my courage to give it a go. I’m doing a Wim Hof day later this year so need to start acclimatising myself! MtS
I find that I need to do it now, it’s really helped my mental health too, I do a second cold shower when I have exercised, a free real genuine buzz. I feel invincible ,a first in 62 years . Good luck very envious of the Wim Hoff day ,enjoy. I just feel it gave me some control, it was something positive I could do for myself
Sliced Bread on BBC Sounds gave a thorough analysis of the subject today. It's well worth a listen. My reaction is to stay well away from low temperature exposure of any sort. There might be marginal benifits for healthy younger people but for the likes of us it puts us in danger.
Hi, I have been finishing my normal showers with 60 seconds of cold shower almost daily for over two years. Sometimes I don't feel like it, but I usually find it very invigorating. I make the water as cold as it can be and focus on different areas of my body in 10-second increments including my face and chest which I've heard is very good for the vagus nerve. At first, I made it last around 10 seconds imagining a scene that made it bearable. These days, I lean into the sensation of the cold water on my skin and that makes it perfectly okay even enjoyable. It's more difficult in winter as the cold water is colder, but it makes me wide awake and ready to face the day.
whilst I sympathise with Piglette and 123-go I am more inclined to give the Wim Hof route a go. If only I had a shower that worked properly! I have meantine occasionally done a short cut version , by dipping my face into a bowl of ice cold water for as long as I can bear it ( seconds not minutes!). It definitely gives me a kick start and perhaps is helping with inflammation…🤔. Worth a try is what I say. But that’s me! Its not for everyone!
I don't know...when I was young and stupid, as a way of losing a bit of weight, I would drink about 8 10-12 ounces glass of water all at once at night. I would also occasionally fill the tub with only cold water and get in...let me tell you folks, the body starts shaking uncontrollably and it is tough...but I was guaranteed to lose a pound when doing this...I really can't even think of it at this point in my life.
Minus 20C here. No thanks. But seeing all the replies made me realize what a “daily community” this is. A good year everyone!!
I have read that exposure to cold can stimulate the vagus nerve which plays a big role in controlling inflammation. There are other things to do as well. I'm not a fan of cold anything either. Google "vagus nerve"...
I read Wim Hoff at the height of my GCA and I decided I would do ANYTHING to help my immune system.
That was 18 months ago and I still do cold showers daily. I never did the Ice baths just cold showers and my un-heated swimming pool which is always at 13 degs throughout winter.
I have been symptoms free for a year and stopped all meds 3 months ago. I truly believe that cold water swimming is good for the immune system. His book also taught me how to hold my breath and I can now hold it for 3 minutes....that may not sound like long but try and see how long you can do it for.
That’s an extraordinary achievement , Markspoint. Congratulations. As they say, if it works for you…. I started my cold shower routine at the weekend. MtS
I'm also an enthusiast for turning the shower to cold for a minute at the end - having picked this up from Dr Michael Moseley's BBC Radio 4 health advice programme 'Just One Thing', and more recently the 'Sliced Bread' programme mentioned above (all available on BBC Sounds app).
I also swim in the sea (in the summer - I'm not a masochist! - and became interested in the effect of cold water on mood when working as a mental health therapist. Many therapists advise the application of cold water to neck, hands and face as a way of helping people to calm down rapidly when highly stressed and overwrought, as it apparently has a direct effect on the vagus nerve which regulates the parasympathetic ('rest and digest') nervous system, helping it to turn off the sympathetic ('fight or flight') system.
On the subject of 'proper research', the following is a link to a podcast from the UK University of Portsmouth. (Their research into the effects of cold water is a legacy from the days of the big Navy presence in Portsmouth, when wartime survival of sailors and submariners was a priority). It's mainly about swimming in cold water, but contains some excellent information and advice about preparing for it, avoiding problems, and recovering afterwards (episodes 6,7, and 8 in particular.)
port.ac.uk/news-events-and-...
Hope helpful. 'Any port in a storm', as the sailors say!
Very interesting Greenthought. I’ll definitely check out the link you’ve shared. MtS
I have been taking cold showers following advice from my son who does wild swimming. I find it does relieve the pain and can last several hours. I normally finish my shower with 3 minutes on cold, the first minute is the worst and then it’s not too bad.
Power to you, Richard! I’ve started rinsing off with cold but it’s a matter of 20 secs or so. Could not contemplate 3 mins….yet!
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