Hi, as I am feeling a bit stronger generally I was thinking about increasing my exercise and perhaps going swimming once a week.
I used to be quite a strong swimmer and always swam breaststroke. Can't remember where but a couple of times I have heard it mentioned that breaststroke legs put strain on the knee joints as they are hinge joints - unlike frogs legs and prefer to go up and down - not sideways!
Early on when first diagnosed a doctor suggested an exercise bike would strengthen hip muscles and protect the joints. I got one , used it quite gently and one knee became painful, I was limping and had fluid on one knee for a few months .Rheumatologist eventually put a needle in and extracted the excess fluid and injected it with steroid and it was healed.
I have tried swimming with crawl legs once or twice but my mind and body want to swim breastroke. I know there are no absolutes and we are all different to a degree. Any thoughts from swimmers or non swimmers please.
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Animalover65
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In my experience nit is simply a case of start really low with a session one would regard as ‘pathetic’ and wait 48 hours for any fallout before doing it again. Build up slowly. My guess (forgive me if I’m wrong) is you went at the bike a bit too hard in the belief it was relatively benign. Your knees didn’t like the onslaught of repetitive stress and complained. If one has been used to high levels of exercise it really does take the biscuit to be taking such baby steps. Regards breast stroke, who knows of it is wrong for you? Do a few (!) strokes and then just tread water for the rest of the time perhaps and leave it at that, stand back and wait. It may be you are fine until a certain level and your body complains but not by a trial by fire. Our bodies can change a fair bit so it’s trying to find the new you and where the boundaries are, but aiming low with a slow (!) buildup with anything newly introduced is key.
Another thought about the bike, did you watch your leg form when you were cycling for any weak muscle induced lateral movement?
Thank you SnazzyD. I think you are probably right that I got the exercise bike when my inflammation levels were quite high and thought I was exercising very gently, which would have been gentle for those not suffering from acute PMR. Re the swimming I will think low and slow.
I didn't really look down when using the bike. What would weak muscle induced lateral movement look like? PS the bike is now ornamental in the living room- as I have a small house and often doubles as a clothes horse! LOL
Your knee and thigh would not be in a straight line all the time when you look down. Watch if the knee moves out to the side a bit as you push down. When my hip muscles were really weak my knee would flap like this as I went up stairs, when pushing down on the next step up. If your bike isn’t set up correctly for you it’ll upset your knee because it takes on all the forces of your big muscles in a wonky way. There is a lot on YouTube if you search for cycling knee.
I am a regular swimmer and I was diagnosed with PMR in 2020 during lockdown, so couldn’t swim then anyhow. I started again when we were allowed to, very gently at first, just a few lengths and stopping before I felt I’d had enough. Time slots were regulated so I couldn’t swim for as long as I used to, even if I’d wanted to. I’m still swimming, but only 20 x 25m a session - which is enough for me. My other issue is arthritis. I had a hip replacement in 2010. Like you, I favoured breaststroke, but there was a question mark about that after surgery. When I started swimming again then I used a float so I could swim with just my arms, or just my legs: a conventional stroke doesn’t matter then, and I could build up my strength and flexibility. I wonder whether that might work for you? Whatever you choose to do, my advice would be to ease yourself into it. Good luck
Sounds pathetic but my first forays to the pool at my gym since diagnosis with GCA was to walk a length of the baby pool (very warm in there), breast stroke back, repeat for 20 mins. I then used the foam weights to do a few exercises from my old Aqua sessions for 10 mins. Felt great afterwards. Do take it slowly. Your body will thank you. Pacing, pacing pacing. It’s kept me sane and I’ve been able to taper well with (so far) one minor flare last September.
Go for it! Swimmers and non-swimmers alike. Post-onset of PMR I joined a disabled swimming club, having not been in the water for some time, during which my spinal curve had degenerated. To my disgust I found I couldn't swim on my front because my legs wouldn't come up behind me. I got a nice fat float to go round my waist and paddled around on my back kicking gently. Pure delight. Also there are impromptu exercises to do, hanging onto the side and high-kicking.
If you are otherwise disabled or in pain there are things to check out. Has the pool a hoist? A slope to get in and a metal chair to be wheeled in. If the pool's in the basement, is there a lift? You don't really want bouncy teenagers. Some pools have over-50s sessions.
Riding a bike and breaststroke are very different so it is more a case of trying and finding out. Start at a low level for a short time and work up to see how much is possible. I found aquafit was better for me - and that was with PMR and no pred as it was before I got a diagnosis. It was kept me upright and mobile until I started pred after 5 years! Now the physio ordered me to go to aquafit here - the regional rheuma charity arranges them. They are off for the summer now - I really miss the once a week session but they have contributed a lot to getting back to be able to walk well after a meltdown with my back in March last year.
Thanks PMRpro, there is something quite uplifting about being in water.
It was 3 and a half months until I got my diagnosis and that was hell , it must have taken strength to keep going for 5 years. Would you consider going swimming before aquafit starts again?
Not really - our pool is closed for a month or two in the summer to do "Works" ad everyone goes to the outdoor pool in the town and swimming there is not an option as it is full of tourists! Lucky if you can see the water!
Inelegant but doggy paddle is quite instinctive too. My fitness was so poor when I jumped into a pool in Ibiza, I felt like I was drowning. This was lack of stamina and breathlessness.
Not tried swimming since PMR diagnosis. I used to swim miles when young, but when OA developed I found swimming really hard and painful. Part of my physio after and before joint replacement involved work/swimming in the pool but after a few goes the physio and I gave it up as was causing more problems than it solved. Using the bike caused, relatively, no problems. I guess you have to, gently and slowly, find out what works for you, we are all different.
Can't help with the swimming, but a pedal exerciser uses the muscles differently and is, I think, less strenuous for the knees. I was advised to get one when I injured my knees in 2020 and still use it daily for about half an hour, as well as now walking without difficulty. It helps keep supporting muscles strong without actually stressing the knee joint.
You can get a good qualiity pedal exerciser for about C$80, much better than a flimsy cheap one which I suspect would lead to frustration and not be used!
I started to go swimming because it was easier than walking. I was doing 'crawl legs' but I ended up with the same knee problem as you and am now about to have a steroid injection! It was flipping the lower leg backwards and forwards, and the slight sideways movement that hurt. Of course, it wasn't necessarily the swimming that caused the problem
I think I would go and give it a try, and just back off as soon as anything starts to hurt. That's what I'm hoping to do, eventually.
Yes I think you are right- gently does it. Re the removal of fluid from the knee and steroid injection. It was done by the rheumatologist. ( I am not keen on medical procedures like most) but he was very swift and skilful and by the time I thought about saying ouch it was done. Hurt less than a lot of other procedures and it fixed it.
I have been going swimming around once to three times a week since I got PMR apart from a couple of breaks to have two hip replacements. I was told you should not do breast stroke with a replacement hip as you could dislocate it. I am sure that is not true regarding swimming with bad knees. The great thing about the water is that it supports you. I then have a cheese Chiapatta and read the free papers along with chatting to other people who are around. Really relaxing.
I used to be a trustee of Arthritis Care (now Versus Arthritis) and I presented a certificate to one lady a while back who had been taking people with arthritis swimming every week for twenty years. She should have got an OBE not a certificate! We used to be able to use hydrotherapy pools locally too, but that all seems to have disappeared. I would love to set up a charity that installed hydrotherapy pools throughout the country. I think it would improve the health of so many people. I need a big lottery win!
I now swim twice a week and find it beneficial. Because i hadn't swum for years i Googled breast stroke to teach my self the correct way. Buying goggles and a nose clip really helped me stop that head out of water style that kills my neck and lower back. Nothing lost by giving it a try.
Hi Animallover65 I think swimming is the best exercise overall. I swim twice a week most of the time. I swim breast stroke mostly but throw in the odd couple of lengths of crawl just to change things a bit. You can swim breast stroke without turning your legs out too much to start with and gradually build it up. Can you swim on your back. It’s possible to swim just kicking your legs on your back and gently moving your arms in and out at the side if you can’t manage the full arm action.
I am currently having problems with my knees for which I’ve seen two physios and been examined well by them. They believe the problem is patella femoral pain syndrome which is caused by weak thigh and buttock muscles etc, presumably caused by PMR. They both gave me exercises to do but also insisted I should keep up the swimming including breast stroke. I should also ice my knees 3 times a day.
I hope this gives you some encouragement, Remember you can always stop if you feel uncomfortable and doing exercises at the side of the pool is good. At my pool there are many people who walk up and down as well.
MrsPractical, it’s interesting to read your symptoms as I too developed a right knee problem (twisted it badly climbing into the driver’s seat of my car) then later a pain in my right buttock (which causes me to limp) after stupidly climbing many flight of steps on holiday. I’ve been referred to 2 different departments for investigations. I’m concerned they may give conflicting treatment. Did you find this or did they work together for a solution?
I too was a breaststroke swimmer. And I found it did cause my knees to swell. I have muscle wastage in my legs, so cycling, I could not control my knee swerving inwards. I know I need aerobic exercise to be healthy but find it a struggle to get it! I recently moved and have joined a gym that does aqua and it has made me so happy! Maybe i can finally start to lose weight and gain balance.
Hi Coralfluxx, that's great that you found your aqua class. I found a ballet class which consists of over fifties women. Its just an hour and the music is very uplifting. Like you I want to add to my aerobic exercise so feel inspired to experiment gently with the swimming.
Hello Animalover,I used to swim breaststroke and occasionally backstroke. Some people consider that swimming, because you are in water, takes the strain off the joints, whilst still building the muscles. My husband has recently had an ankle fusion and bone graft. He is not advised to lift anything heavy and can only walk a certain distance, but I have seen a video on line on ankle fusion recovery, where after 10 weeks the gentleman regularly goes swimming. Have a word with your doctor, but I would be surprised that he/she would dissuade you from any form of swimming, which is excellent for keeping fit. If you do have problems a good swimming instructor should be able to help you adapt your breaststroke style.
Thank you bluepuddy, my rheumatologist is more helpful than the GP surgery and I see him again in November. I will experiment with swimming- taking things gently.I hope you and your husband are able to enjoy swimming together soon. x
My first two years of PMR coincided with Covid so all I could do was walk for an hour a day but when the pools reopened, I gave it a while then returned to Aqua and swimming
I think that swimming is wonderful exercise for almost everyone. You could try using a pull buoy, which is a sponge float that you hold between your knees. It gives buoyancy and stability to the legs. Or you could get a pool noodle, which is a large foam tube. You can do lots of exercises with a noodle while it gives you support.
As you are a swimmer, I think you would enjoy being in the water whatever you do!
Hi there, real swimming is great if you can do it, but I agree start slow. Be careful with your legs style of movement though/ just saying that from my experience and an injury that occurred.
You can also do a whole range of aqua based exercises- I focus on that in a heated or warm pool and on a good day can do 45 mins including stints of running on the spot up to 10 mins at an interval with repititions.
You can add water weights as well to increase resistance and build strength.
You will have to listen to your body so as not to cause tissue damage.
Hi Animalover65, you’ve had some very good advice which I can’t really add to (I was in my past life a swimming instructor). I would just add that getting in a quiet pool and floating around feels pretty good!
Hi there I too am an avid swimmer and one of the exercises that is recommended for PMR is swimming because it Can be gentle.
From the start I knew I could loose muscle so got water gloves, bad idea since I started to rip muscles but I've continued to swim constantly.
I've never not swam but my advice is to start slow. I too like the breast stroke and have no problems but I have a pool and swim up to 2 hrs a day and in the winter we're south diving. The one thing pmr never took away, just slower doing it.
I’d suggest aqua fit as opposed to outright swimming. I managed 3 fifty minute classes a week for the first 4 years of my PMR journey. I could choose the level of output, rest if need be, and it provided a great stretch and strength-training for a wide variety of muscles while providing some cardio. The warmer the water the better.
I tried swimming laps and it was too hard on my shoulders and neck. Now I am focused more on weight-bearing exercise to strengthen my bones (walking, dancing, pickleball), but also start the day with a range of slow stretches by our lovely pond.
Good luck with whatever exercise you go with, and as others have mentioned, go slow and pace yourself.
Thank you PMRCanada. I imagine starting the day doing exercises by your pond is very inspiring! And it sounds as if you have been very committed to your exercise programme. I love dancing too. I have recently started a weekly hour of ballet. Its helps strengthening the muscles and the music is beautiful. The woman who dances in front of me is 78 and very graceful and strong. I am nearly 66 and think that ballet may be the way to go! and hopefully I can build on my fitness with the water based exercises.
Do a bit of everything, little and often. It will take a while to get fit,but as long as you balance moving and resting you should recover well.
In April I was at the same stage with similar questions and my 'negative head' gave me reasons not to do anything.
I started aqua aerobics and the movement to music helped me gain a positive head, all joints feel more relaxed and looser. The social aspect of exercising together helped too.
I've lost an inch or two and feel well.
Three years ago I couldn't lift my arms, had 'deathly fatigue' and felt that would be me forever.
Little changes consistently and plenty of rest will make a difference.
Thank you Bibberty, yes I was thinking back to the 3 -4 months pre diagnosis when it was too painful to wash my hair or bend down to put food in the cats dishes- had to drop it from above the bowls. I would lie awake night after night and my cat Daisey would come and lay up against my head on the pillow - she only did that when I was most ill. Lost her 3 months ago and don't think I could get another cat, might be a dog next time.
I started an adult ballet class a few weeks ago and the music is lovely and its good to get out and mix with other women. And yes its so important to rest enough to take care of the temperamental adrenals!.
I look forward to adding swimming gently into my schedule. Keep up the good work...
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