Who's laughing about kale and spinach now?
medscape.com/viewarticle/98...
Although they are thinking about cognitive decline in aging and dementia, cognitive problems are also associated with many drugs, including steroids. I eat vast quantities of broccoli, lettuce and other dark greens and drink a load of tea!! Seems it might be worth it 
I have never liked Kale or Spinach - other greens especially a pointy cabbage, broccoli and do peas count as green? 😕
Not sure - they do list various items for the various flavonols ... Broccoli counts. And tea ...
All brassica vegetables , so cabbages are good too , and the lovely festive Brussel sprout🌱Peas , peashoots , and lettuces are good in their own way helping maintain weight by improving levels of fat soluble vitamins which help immunity and antioxidants to help inflammation .
Ah yes - but this is specifically flavenoids ...
I have read that it still includes dark green cabbage and sprouts they also include quercetin, kaempferol, and apigenin, interestingly, red cabbage is another good choice , containing anthocyanins, yet another festive vegetable.Green tea is definitely a great addition , not just for PMR, but it helps protect the stomach from the increase in stomach acid and bad bacteria which can help in reducing those stomach problems taking the steroids , along with the yoghurt .
By the way , are you suggesting below that you are going to be trying to do the move in the picture for your daughter. Are you planning to be the fairy on the Christmas tree this year ?
That's going to make serving Christmas dinner very interesting😄😄😄🧚♀️🎄
No wine for me , even my rare festive tipple , I'm in the process of being tested for PBC and Autoimmune Hepatitis at the moment , yet another unwelcome gift from my Mum!
No - she has 3 consecutive nights on the ED over the weekend. Just anticipating what she might meet ... Not me - she is in Scabs!
AHH! So multifarious Christmas decoration hanging accidents then . What fun!!!!!
Here you are:
health.harvard.edu/heart-he...
Loved it Heron, I eat peas all those that are mentioned nearly everyday and I just love it when they are grown and I can pick them,sort of brush them with my fingers and eat them there and then. Blame my Grandad who did the same. Mam used to go mad, always saying wash them first. My answer was always, Grandad doesn't bother. You and that link brought a big happy memory back to me. Thank you .
me neither........then I started making a morning shake to take my Prednisone with, using kale, spinach, broccoli, blueberries, pomegranate juice and a banana....and it is simply delicious. Even my husband drinks it and that is saying something. It is the banana that masks all the 'green leafy taste' and makes it into a fabulous tasting drink.
I've always eaten lots of raw spinach, and some kale. Also love tomatoes and tea, so.......🤞🤞🤞🤞
Doing something right then..good to see wine is included.
I thought that!
okay, so looks like I can carry on drinking red wine, eating sprouts and also tomatoes
I have a recipe for poaching sprouts in Riesling. Wonder if it would work with red wine ...
only one way to find out!
The Riesling version is rather fine ...
all round to yours for sprout testing tomorrow then 😂
I’ve drunk plenty red over the years and eat greens of all sorts including sprouts which is why my hubby says I’m full of hot air!
Up UP AND AWAY
🎈 🎈😂😂
Thanks Pro. Will have to rethink my diet. Not fond of a few of those veg.
Love all of them! Thanks for posting this, PMRpro
I am not a kale fan particularly, but the cafe where I have lunch after swimming has got rid of the lettuce and baby spinach leaves in their salad and substituted it with kale and very thick cabbage leaves (Chopped up but raw). The result is I don’t eat them!
Yuk - cost cutting?
There's a North American shortage of romaine lettuce these days because of climate change affecting California. We're going to have to get used to this sort of thing happening more and more often, sadly.
it is Little Gem lettuce they normally use. I would prefer they forgot the kale and cabbage as they are pretty uneatable raw.
Sometimes I can get a kind of looseleaf kale, I forget its name. Maybe wild kale? Anyway it's much much nicer than the curly kale which by this time of year is not very nice either raw or cooked, it's so tough, but seems to be all I can find these days. I guess what I was seeing in the supermarket last fall was imported. There is a kind of cabbage which is quite nice raw, we call it Savoy cabbage and the flesh of the leaves is not so thick, but I like cabbage steamed in a chunk so it has just started to change colour, and served with butter and salt. Still have cringy memory of the limp grey leaves of school lunches.
Probably most common variety in UK ….originally from Savoy region in France.
It's actually hard to find here, haven't seen any this year. 
Wok stir fry is another way to deal with the tougher greens. Finely shredded and only a couple of minutes. Can add all sorts of other stuff for flavour. Yum.
I hated it as a child, we grew our own so it appeared a lot in winter. Have you tried roasting it?
my Dad grew kale when I was a kid. He called it ‘gas cape greens’. Pretty good description I think!!
I absolutely detest cabbage. I remember (not fondly!) school lunches where they gave us cabbage regularly. But I used to pretend to cough & then spit it into my hanky. My poor dear mum on wash day…..🤣
I still don’t like it to this day🤮
love Savoy cabbage cooked that way. I wonder if our bodies tell us to eat these things that are good for our conditions in a kind of warning to our systems , a bit like pregnancy cravings....
It is said that anyone with unrestricted access to a healthy diet will get all the nutrients they need over a period of weeks just by the variation in what they select.
Cabbage done right is edible raw - here at least! It is a common winter salad component and of course - sauerkraut, also in salad.
here also. In fact I look forward to soon being able to pick up bags of "Supersalad" at our local market shop whenre all the shredding etc has already been done.
Well, what luck ! I genuinely love spinach and kale…call me strange…
Me too!
love all greens especially kale and rocket and watercress, hope they count. 😆
oh I love rocket & watercress - with spinach too.
Feeling vindicated! Thank you....
ooooooh idea, home made red wine and with winter greens! JOB DONE 😁
Thanks fog this, only just had a chance to read it. Pretty happy with eating most things on that list and certainly drink lots of tea. I note it says wine rather than red or white.
Thank you for posting great article. Interestingly kale is number one vegetable for fighting macular degeneration, spinach is second - so yes 👵 Grandma was right! 😄👍🏻
I have just completed six weeks on Dr Goldners raw green smoothie regime for inflammation and to be honest, I feel brilliant.
I was diagnosed with PMR in. June, then suspected GCA in September. I was at a very low ebb, weeping in the rheumatologist’s consulting room as I felt so awful and wondering how I could ever get back to normal work. Tapering pred from 40mg, now on 15 and I am pretty much more pain free than I ever have been, and much less fatigued.
I cook food for a living, making everything from scratch, so no highly processed food and always thought my diet pretty healthy. However, being ill for the first time ever made me really think about my diet and exactly how much variety of veg, especially leafy greens I actually did eat, and some days it was woeful. I was feeding everyone else and neglecting myself….a chef’s occupational hazard I guess.
I have always sniffed at the smoothie fad but realise that if this was going to work there is no way I could chew my way through that much raw greens (especially kale as it is so tough) so when a friend lent me her nutribullet (consigned to the cupboard along with juicer and bread maker) it was a life changer; it’s really quick to shove in 75% raw leafy green stuff (kale, spinach, parsley, watercress, rocket, mustard greens, chard, turnip tops) ..whatever is to hand and add 25% other anti-inflammatory fruits in season like berries, apples, pears, oranges. Half a banana or avocado makes it creamier and more substantial and then a tablespoon of chia or flax seed for the omega3, some ginger and lemon juice, a pint of water and it really is pretty palatable. I have it as my breakfast (it fills you up too) before the pills and it will keep me going til lunch.
I’m avoiding too much refined carbs and sugar and (especially processed) meat as well but really enjoying eating as many different veg as I possibly can in the rest of my meals and I’m full of beans (!) It can’t entirely be coincidence and I’m glad I persevered…I’m quite fond of my glass of green sludge in the morning…oh I’ve lost a stone in weight too since the summer.
Food is the best medicine…along with lots of water. Red wine is ok too! Cheers everyone…I urge you to give it a try.
I've just read your reply Reedmaker, and ditto.....same for me every morning, raw kale spinach and watercress, lime juice and 4 heaped teaspoons of chia seeds and flax seeds, some water, into my nutri bullet and hey presto! Came to the conclusion years ago when I first started this (suggested by my son who is PT and knows a lot about nutrition) that it'd got to be good for me. My hubby has it too.
Thanks for posting. Love all those things - thank goodness! 💐
a really informative read ! Thanks as always - note to self ….must eat more greens !
I have kale, spinach and watercress in a smoothie every morning! Have done for about 7 or 8 years, so despite since having PMR (4 years ago) perhaps my brain will stay intact??? 😀😅 yet as I'm getting older I'm not as alert as I was.
When I was a kid we were always told that the worse a veggie tastes, the better they are for you.
Being told they are good for you - that’s definitely enough to put kids off 😳
I was told that most children don;t like spinach. Naturally, being the contrary miss I was, decided I would like it.
I love spinach in sandwiches. Loads of it too
Ah but there was an incentive, I was determined to get bigger and stronger than my older Brother (7 years) and do you know what, it worked.
That made me laugh out loud!
Cavolo Nero is an easy form of Kale to grow from seed in the UK . It has puckered leaves, not like curly kale, and is very tastey. Just beware of caterpillars in the summer by covering with fine mesh.
Sometimes the kale will grow on for several years. Another good variety called Kallettes is also easy to grow from seed and is like a cross between kale and Brussel sprouts.
As has been said most of the green veg taste good liquidized .
I usually chop up the Kale ,remove any thick stalks and mix with other veg when cooking.
Stinging nettles are one of the most nutritious veg, very high levels of vitamins and minerals. I only pick new young leaves, which will then keep coming except when frosted. Excellent liquidized into a soup !
That is all a bit of a worry for me as my Adcal-D 3 says it shouldn't be taken within 2 hours of food like Spinach rhubarb, bran , whole cereals etc., and things high in oxalic acid, so I decided that rules out having spinach at all. By the time I factor in the Omeprazole, steroids, various blood p tablets, Vit B1, the rhumy suggests for my various damaged nerve problems, and now Fexofenadine Hydrochloride the Locum thinks might be worth a try for my Hayfever plus the 5 lots of eye drops a day, I sometimes think I haven't got time to go out. I shouldn't think Hayfever would be a problem in Dec in the UK, more like an allegry, but she hardly glanced at my 4 weeks food diary she requested.
Taking calcium mid-morning and mid-afternoon is enough of a gap. It is so they don't mix in the gut so shouldn't be taken together.
I also have to space medications even though I don't take calcium supplements at all now - but one heart drug doesn't mix with anticoagulants. They are all allocated a space in a dosette box and alarms are set on my phone. I am lucky - a small tablet goes down without water but I take up to 5 or so in a handful when it allows.
You don't just take antihistamines for Hay fever. I have to take one a day to reduce allergy responses in general and to reduce Mast Cell Activity. It's a H1 blocker . I also have to take a H2 blocker , an antacid medication for the same reason. They can both reduce the effects of GERD , motion sickness , itching , reflux and Neurological pain response to various stimuli in hypersensitivity conditions. The H blocker combination is being used on an ad hoc basis for people whom might have Mast Cell Activation problems , and there have been small trials of their use for IBS and Fibromyalgia , more often in the US than the UK at the moment in combination with vitamin supplementation.Antihistamines are also often tried to reduce insomnia in people with Neurological pain issues.
I was sceptical, it does nothing for my sleep but my neuro pain did reduce by about 20% using the regime , probably because pain signals weren't being set off so much by itching and skin stimulation or mild food intolerances.
Have they tested your Vitamin B 12 level ?
Getting on the injections when they found my Deficiency has made a big difference to my neuro pain and digestion.
Thank you, so much to think about, maybe this locum is a keeper, she was at least interested enough to suggest a food diary. I will certainly ask about a test for my Vit B 12 level. I must get more involved with my medical problems. I'm afraid I have just accepted that a healthy diet would take care of me, but realise the acid reflux can cause throat cancer eventually. So glad they have found something to relieve your health which sounds very complicated. Till I got diagnosed with GCA/PMR I didn't realise just how many problems our health can throw at us. Take care
I do a salmon, beetroot, balsamic vinegar one pan dish that you roast in the oven. For the last few minutes you sprinkle kale on the top and spray it with oil, so it goes crispy. It's really nice that way. Also, for the OH I do a Nutribullet smoothie most days with spinach or kale, walnuts, seeds, cinnamon, cocoa, orange, blueberries, celery. Perhaps I should try it myself!
I see that “tea” is referred to in the study, but it never says what kind. Got to wonder if that is green or black (or any other) or whether it can be decaffeinated or not. Can’t assume….
The tea that is best overall for health , and has promising results in various research trials, is Green Tea.It appears to have the highest flavonoids and can be preventative against bacterial infection , including h.pylori.
You can have it in various flavours , as long as those flavours are not artificial or including sugar.
Rooibos and Black tea comes in second , because of the tannin content , especially interesting in cardiovascular health.
To get the tannin quantity required they do need to be brewed very strong and can be a little dry or bitter on the taste buds .
After that comes White tea and Jasmine tea.
If you can have it on your medications it is followed by Ginger tea.
If you need to sweeten your tea Manuka or good quality local honey is best . These honeys can have their own medicinal preventative properties.
Chamomile and Chrysanthemum are known for their calming qualities , including the digestion but they don't have the level of antimicrobial, immunity building and cardiovascular health benefits of green or black.
Ah yes - but it depends WHICH flavonoids ...
Whichever you are going for one point I'd seen in a tea study was that decaffeinated tea had a considerably lower amount of flavonoids , quercetin and polyphenols than the caffeine equivalent. The concentration levels of different flavonoid types changes in the process of making black tea from the green leaf.
Can't see the point of de-caff tea or coffee!!! Water'll do fine ...
Or calorie-free soda. Not that I drink soda anyway, not for decades.
Me neither. I find them all too sweet. Tap water saves a fortune ...
Or " Corporation Pop" as my Mum used to call it😄
I suppose if you really love the flavour of tea or coffee but really can't cope with the caffeine it's a pleasure for your mind , but does little for the body.My various rare conditions seem to create a total reversal of usual preventative advice . I have to have more salt for the Dysautonomia. Use nicotine inhalers and skin patches to reduce the ulcers. Drink fresh brewed coffee for part of liver / bile regulation as well as more carbs and sit with my feet up a lot!
Who knew all those decades of trying to live a healthy lifestyle was killing me!!!😆😆😆
I actually treated myself to a Tea Advent calendar from Austria , today's flavour was Rooibos Mulled Wine , it was very tasty.
I noticed them in the village shop the other day. No - mine is chocolate ...
Couldn't find a chocolate one with the sugar free dark chocolate. So I just enjoy a few chunks of my usual bar with my tea
I was given a jigsaw puzzle advent calendar! Twenty-four 50-piece jigsaws, pictures of Christmas cookies, candy, etc. Although I yearn for the ones of my childhood where you opened a little window and there was a surprise picture.
I bought those to send through the post to my girls , they are in their twenties but still love a picture calendar. You can still find them on Amazon . I bought my OH a calendar which has pieces in it that allows you to build your own radio , he loves stuff like that.
I think both green and black tea are good for us, and yes they are different.
Thank you, blearyeyed!
Thanks all, it all makes for interesting ideas, I could try the smoothie idea, if it doesn't taste as bad as it sounds, I started with fruit smoothies till I read about the huge amount of fruit sugar I was having, was also putting the whay from my home made yoghurt in, which was supposed to be good for muscle building, then read to avoid that, possibly in my quest for reducing my reflux (or was it nerve damage?) I had reflux before I ever got GCA/PMR, but was never suggested anything other than Gavescon which I decided made me worse. All garlic, ginger. spices onions and caffeine have been ditched at the moment sadly. Mid Pred I had the best two summers I can remember for hay fever, now on a lower dose it is back to lack of sleep and clogged throat all night, so after the first rush of being able to clean cupboards out at 4 am things settled down for a time so I had certain things to thank pred for. It was even suggested somewhere Green tea flushes out a lot of good things as well as bad, so confusion is easy for me I was convinced it was OK.
so do I 🤣😂🤣😂
Just wondered, are frozen spinach, kale etc much less effective than bought fresh.
It is said that frozen veg are nutritionally as good as and in some cases better than fresh. Vit C, for example, degrades from the moment of harvest and frozen veg has that process halted within hours instead of continuing on the shelf and in the veg drawer.
In the case of Scottish raspberries
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/121...
"Scottish-grown red raspberries are a rich source of vitamin C and phenolics, most notably, the anthocyanins cyanidin-3-sophoroside, cyanidin-3-(2(G)-glucosylrutinoside), and cyanidin-3-glucoside, and two ellagitannins, sanguiin H-6 and lambertianin C, which are present together with trace levels of flavonols, ellagic acid, and hydroxycinnamates. The antioxidant capacity of the fresh fruit and the levels of vitamin C and phenolics were not affected by freezing. When fruit were stored at 4 degrees C for 3 days and then at 18 degrees C for 24 h, mimicking the route fresh fruit takes after harvest to the supermarket and onto the consumer's table, anthocyanin levels were unaffected while vitamin C levels declined and those of elligitannins increased, and overall, there was no effect on the antioxidant capacity of the fruit. It is concluded, therefore, that freshly picked, fresh commercial, and frozen raspberries all contain similar levels of phytochemicals and antioxidants per serving"
I won't list all the abstracts I read but it seems to depend on the particular fruit or veg but in all cases degradation of flavinoids was less in frozen items than in dried or long shelf storage. Freshly picked and used is best, then frozen with shelf stored being less good.
The only thing with frozen spinach I've got a feeling that it says on the pack that it shouldn't be used raw. I might be wrong, but I think I was going to use it in smoothies once, but then found that I couldn't.
Mine would have been Tesco's own brand. Just looked at the pack information on their website and it says 'warning, do not eat raw'. Maybe theirs is a bit of an oddity?
For those interested in tea as a detox agent, this could be of interest:
healthline.com/nutrition/gr...
very interesting thank you
PMR Flare up after Covid? 
Sharp pain below right breast under ribs. PMR? Steroids? 
PMR can be a right old struggle
your history of PMR, GCA
How long did you have PMR symptoms before your Diagnosis?
