Wild/cold water swimming to manage inflammation?

Several weeks ago there was a thread which mentioned wild/cold water swimming as a way of managing/helping inflammation. Anyone who was interested might also be interested in this week's The Life Scientific with Mike Tipton, Prof of Extreme Physiology. Apologies to those not in the UK who may not be able to listen.

bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000w9t5

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer]

The use of cold baths in sports injuries for inflammation is well known, but not sure it works in our kind of inflammation (may do) - but cold water swimming is supposed to be very good for mental wellbeing.

[Hidden in reply to DorsetLady]

Prof. Tipton suggests that cold water treatment may be useful for inflammatory conditions. I share it because I think, based on discussion in previous threads, that it may be of interest and not as a recommendation.

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Hidden]

I know you’re not recommending - it wasn’t a criticism of post, just a comment.

[PMRpro Ambassador]

I can listen - radio is usually OK.

Constance was given the cold chamber cryotherapy in a rheumy spa clinic and went home worse than she'd been when she arrived there!

[Hidden in reply to PMRpro]

That's good - I know that my daughter (in Belgium) can't get iplayer but wasn't sure about BBC Sounds.

I'm not sure that 'cold chamber cryotherapy' involves but I found listening to Mike Tipton informative. He's a research physiologist, not a medical doctor and certainly not a rheumatologist but the programme gave me food for thought and I share it on that basis.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Hidden]

Far more use, a physiologist, But I suppose I AM biased ...

[196_]

I regularly go cold water swimming. I find that it lifts my mood

[Longtimer in reply to 196_]

"Cold water swimmi ng" makes my husband and son laugh..it's all they ever did when you nger...jumping off bridges into lovely rivers etc.......wonderful memories of children enjoying themselves....all shut off now!....half today can't swim...

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Longtimer]

Same here - it always makes me laugh down on Lake Garda where there is a sign on the beach at Lazise that it is dangerous to swim in the lake when the water temperature is under 19C!

[Longtimer in reply to PMRpro]

Oh dear...words fail me...when we have been past places we went years ago...unbelievable the warning signs are everywhere....memory

Lake Garda now theres a place to swim in......if allowed!....

Shocking news about Lake Maggorie (?)......the cablecar.....have been in one...husband being a mechanic....didn't look happy with the jolts going up.......worth it though when at top of dolomites.....👍

[Hidden in reply to PMRpro]

Our Italian friends though it hilarious when we took them to the beach on a typical British summer day - jumpers, fleeces and coats absolutely necessary.

They said that it helped them understand why British tourists would head to the beach while their continental cousins hid inside! They did admit that seal watching and building sandcastles on one of the UK’s most amazing beaches had charms which couldn’t be found in the Med but could not be persuaded to paddle.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Hidden]

My sympathies lie with them! I never did really like the beach but needing a windbreak just doesn't appeal at all, Maybe I've lived here too long

[Hidden in reply to PMRpro]

It’s about expectations! We have a dog who is selectively deaf - she’s particularly deaf if she thinks that she can see someone with a picnic so, for us, walking on a deserted, windswept East coast is bliss. She might roll in something unmentionable and is bound to find dead fish to eat but we can all enjoy the experience.

Our Italian friends certainly enjoyed a brief spell on the beach followed by fish and chips and freshly cooked doughnuts on the quay. The 7 year old had a particular passion for Mr Whippy type ice-cream which appalled his mother who has brought him up on delicious, homemade gelato.

I certainly agree that freezing behind a windbreak as an endurance exercise is not fun!

[Hidden in reply to 196_]

Good for you! (That looks sarcastic, it’s really not meant to be!).

I’m lucky that I find lane swimming, particularly at our local lido, really therapeutic. I think that the almost metronomic repetition is quite meditative. I find walking and running in nature (as opposed to walking/running my local streets) similarly soothing - particularly if I’m on my own or it’s just me and the dogs.

[196_ in reply to Hidden]

I agree. I find any swimming therapeutic and gentle walking.If it helps, it helps and that's all that matters

[Grannyasbo]

I heard the same program and made me wonder the same thing. I know a number of friends and acquaintances who swear by it. And was was thinking pre PMR of trying it. Not sure now. Me thinks it could go either way. So any other experiences fellow PMR folk have I would also love to hear. Thanks for raising NorfolkEnchants.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Grannyasbo]

I had PMR for 5 years without pred. The most important part of managing it was an aquafit class almost every day at my gym where they had a warm pool - too warm really for serious swimming and probably a bit warm for aquafit if the truth were told, However, occasionally the boiler had a hissy fit and it was cooler than usual - and I would walk down the steps and almost straight out again and head for the sauna or steam room. I knew if I went in for longI would just seize up and it would take ages to get moving again - what was, after all, the aim of the exercise!!

[Constance13 in reply to PMRpro]

Give me 33 degs every time!😂😂👵🏻

[piglette]

I really enjoy the Life Scientific. Today’s was particularly good. I was wondering if the same worked with a cold shower!

[dartmoorlass in reply to piglette]

Mike Tipton did mention the possibility of future research to check if simply paddling in cold water could have similar effects. Will there be enough financial interest to back such research, let's hope so?

Personally, I long to get back into a swimming pool. Prior to PMR/GCA I swam regularly, finishing each session with a 10 min float session on my back ........wonderfully relaxing. However, 6 years older with the added complications of permanent side effects from both illness and meds, I hope to simply find myself a quiet spot in the pool where I shall hold the siderail and do as many breast stroke and crawl kicks as my body will allow followed by kneeling and doing the same with all arm movements. If my body permits, perhaps I'll be able to try a few swimming strokes at a future date. I remember how thrilled you were after your first swim following diagnosis. Hope all continues well.

[piglette in reply to dartmoorlass]

I really missed a swim during Lockdown. It is great that we are allowed back in the pool again. The pool I go to is only 25m long though. A nice temperature, not too hot.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to dartmoorlass]

Awh, bless! Has he never heard of Kneipp therapy?

suedtirolerland.it/en/leisu...

kneipp.com/us_en/kneipp-mag...

It would be rather re-inventing the wheel

[dartmoorlass in reply to PMRpro]

Thanks for the really interesting links PMRpro. I don't know about Mike Tipton but I'd never heard of Sebastian Kneipp - should have - he sounds my sort of down-to-earth observant chap. It seems many observations by countryfolk of the natural world and its seasons have created movements which have stood the test of time, my father sowed and planted according to the phases of the moon. Many years ago the UK had a Naturopathic Clinic at Tyringham, those of us who attended were looked upon as 'cranks' . It was basic, I remember standing, half naked against a white-tiled wall whilst an Amazonian directed a cold water hose up and down my spine. Five days and various treatments later, my lower back problems had been sorted without any surgery or painkillers which had been suggested by my NHS Ortho consultant. These days the Spa Hotels/Boutiques in the UK appear to be more about pampering than genuine naturopathy but maybe I haven't done enough research.

Thank you for all the work you do for us all, you're always right up-to-date with latest well researched info. I'm afraid I don't post very often, too many negative experiences which could cause anxiety to a nervous person. I know they'd have upset me when a newbie!

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to dartmoorlass]

We actually have a Kneipp parcour in part ofour relatively small village and almost every larger place has one. They are very popular with tourists when on walking holidays.

[Hidden]

Fine listening choices Grannyasbo and Piglette.

Personally, I’m too much of a wuss! I love swimming and regularly swim at our local, heated lido but can’t quite summon up the enthusiasm for cold water swimming. I have swum at Hampstead Ladies Pond and in my youth used to regularly brave German and Swiss lakes (freezing, with lots of meltwater) and the North sea.

I was just about tempted to try swimming in the Norfolk Broads this summer but a friend told me a horrible story about swimming in a local river and getting out covered with an unpleasant substance all over himself. Much of the Broads is full of agricultural runoff.

Also, as I’m taking methotrexate, I’ve been warned that I am more at risk of picking up tummy bugs, eye infections or something like Weil’s disease because I’m immunosuppressed.

I do turn the shower to cold before I get out which is enough to make me swear but probably not enough to really affect inflammation!

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Hidden]

The Germans think so - you start with a few seconds at the end of the shower and build up the time. I have even seen work suggesting just splashing your face or arms with cold water improves the immune system function.

[GOOD_GRIEF]

My main concern here would be cramping. Make sure someone qualified is nearby if you need help.

[Coffeebeans]

I'll check this out thankyou.

You know I really do enjoy my twice weekly at the moment 10 degree dip!

[Hidden in reply to Coffeebeans]

I thought of you as I listened.

[Coffeebeans in reply to Hidden]

Wow - small world.

I was posted to the Institute of Naval medicine in 2000 for around a year before I left the Navy. I remember the cold water trials going on when I was there.

We always did water rescues horizontal - all this stuff came from this research going on 😊

[Highlandtiger]

I've just listened. Thanks so much for posting about it. As well as the bits about inflammation I found all the rescue stuff fascinating, particularly about rescuing people horizontally rather than vertically. Makes so much sense when you think about the increased pressure underwater. It's so simple but it needed someone to actually think about it. I'm now binge listening to other episodes!

[Hidden in reply to Highlandtiger]

I hope that you won't be disappointed. His guests are so varied that I never fail to have my interest piqued.

[Highlandtiger in reply to Hidden]

Definitely not disappointed so far and I’ve listened to 4 now... The marine conservationist's obvious enthusiasm for diving in general and humphead wrasses in particular made me realise just how much I am missing scuba diving... All the guests were very engaging in their own way.

[Hidden in reply to Highlandtiger]

I bet you googled humphead wrass - I did!

[Highlandtiger in reply to Hidden]

No! I’ve actually dived with them many many times. Big gentle giants. Sometimes called Napoleon wrasse. Her description was spot on. Massive big lips and eyes that watch you intently. They sometimes come close and interact with you and then there's their beautiful patterned skin... Like her I’m a bit of a log obsessive and have been diving for decades so have actually logged almost 3 times more dives than she had. But I just loved her enthusiasm and she'll have a lot more diving ahead of her than I do!

[Hidden in reply to Highlandtiger]

I'm very jealous, I've never been scuba diving but would love to give it a try. My OH, despite being very sporty, is not much of a swimmer so we've never had the sort of holiday where I might have been able to give it a try. Perhaps it will be something that I can investigate in my old age!

[Highlandtiger in reply to Hidden]

Oldish thread but I just happened to see this pic on an old laptop today and thought of you...😀

Napoleon wrasse and me...

[Hidden in reply to Highlandtiger]

How fabulous! Thank you for sharing - I'm even more of the opinion that I need to learn to dive now.

[whitefishbay]

Interesting.

[Louisa1840]

I think I've read that "PMR will burn itself out when it's ready" I think I'll wait for this to happen rather than submit to cold water therapy! I do think that aqua fit or gentle swimming in a WARM pool is very comforting though and a good choice for PMR patients.