Hi there.... was wondering if anyone on here has had any benefits from fasting? I have had PMR for about 7 years and decided to ‘give my body a rest’ in the hope it may concentrate on ridding itself of the unnatural state. Have lost weight which benefits my old knee injury - which btw is where the PMR hit first but stuck on 2 mg which is not symptom free but manageable.
Fasting...?: Hi there.... was wondering if anyone... - PMRGCAuk
Fasting...?
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Nicobeak
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What sort of fasting? I do TRE (time restricted eating) and I think that has helped keep weight gain under control. Other than that I don't hold great hopes for short term more extreme forms of fasting - you may feel a great deal better while doing it but I doubt the effects will be outstanding long term once you go back to more normal eating patterns.
I do TRE too, not strictly, but I try to eat everything between 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. I'm not sure how much help this is regarding weight control, but for some reason it helps psychologically to know I'll have nothing but a cup of redbush tea or camomile tea between 6 o'clock and bedtime. I would restrict myself to noon to 6 p.m. if it wasn't for having to take my pred. I've experimented and 10 a.m. is okay for me. I wouldn't risk taking it any later. I did try the 5-2 diet for a short time when the TV programme was first on, but I simply couldn't hack it.
Thank you. It’s interesting to learn about others experiences.
I try to eat at the same time each day......nothing for 13 hours from evening till morning....I started this when became pre-diabetic, lost weight, and the weight has remained the same for nearly 2 years...I was amazed how quick I got used to it.....
Do you use milk in your tea?
Not in the herbal tea I drink in the evening.
I stopped eating dinners for a while; I lost weight and it helped me wean myself off Omeprazole. This also coincided with a significant drop in my perception of the background inflammation. What I mean is that I didn't feel the usual pain in the morning and while taking 5mg of Prednisolone I felt pain free. I am planning to try that again. Once I got used to it I didn't crave food in the evenings any more, but my family was objecting to eating without me. I take my steroids in the morning otherwise, I would have happily skipped breakfast. This is effectively a form of time restricted eating rather than proper fast. I think it worth a shot. I would try different versions and see what suits you the best. Just make sure your meals, when you do have them, are extremely nutrient-dense.
Thanks. My doctor insists on Omeprazole though didn’t have it prescribed for at least a year - no ill effects I know of. I find it easier not to start eating as if I have lunch, I’ll be starving by early evening. Supper is always good food and I eat as much as I want and what I want albeit in smaller quantities
A lot of rheumatologists no longer prescribe it routinely. I was on AA as well and once I started experiencing acid reflux, it was clear I needed Omeprazole. But a few weeks after I stopped AA, I started tapering Omeprazole and no longer need it. I do have a large breakfast with my steroids and take Aloe Vera in a glass of water first thing every morning.
I overate at Xmas and felt really awful. Bad heads. Giddy. Sweats. Pain - you name it and I had it. I am now eating some of what they say is good for you if you have pmr and trying also to follow the Mediterranean diet but not entirely to the book. I feel so much better for it and have only lost about 2lb in just under three weeks but that's fine by me. My Dr has advise me to take 15 mg preds for 1 week now which is down from 17.5 so I'm hoping it is not too quick. I take my tablets at 5pm in order to try and get some sleep but I usually only get 4 hours. Have lots of trouble sleeping.
Four hours seems to be my magic number too at moment. I'm currently exploring if any sleep aids help. An essential oil diffuser that emits low level 'white noise' definitely helps me with more restful sleep....sometimes, and I'm about to try a weighted blanket!
Good idea as I have a really heavy duvet on. Can hardly turn over so I'll see how that goes too.
I had a fit bit for Xmas and my sleep pattern is awful. 3.1 hours one day 4.3 hours another day and one day 2.5. How do we cope on that. Makes me wonder but we have to don't we until we get the answer. If I could get about 5 or even 6 I would be happy as I have never slept more than about 6 or 7 all my life. Love the early mornings. I think it's waste of a day if you are in bed to long in the mornings. Let me know if you come up with an answer for sleep . Thanks.
Since I went through the menopause, I've never slept really well, but whilst on higher doses of prednisolone (above 7.5mg in my case) it's become increasingly more and more of a challenge. Some nights I get 6hrs but most nights about 4hrs and at least once a week at the moment, I'll literally be awake all night! I feel ok for the most part because I'm off work at the moment and can rest as much as I need to during the day....although I don't sleep during the day. My oil diffuser definitely helps relax me but on the worst nights I'm not sure I'd anything would work! I'll definitely let you know if I find anything that has a significant positive effect.
But did you feel you were OK BEFORE the fit bit told you that? There are warnings from sleep experts that the sleep figures on a fit bit are often very inaccurate and you are probably doing much better than it thinks!
No. I haven't slept properly since going on steroid back in November but I take it just as a guide. I sit reading at maybe 2 or 3 am so I am aware of what sleep I have. It just gives a rough guide as far as I am concerned but just wish I could sleep. Paul Mckennna guide is in the Mail today but unless he hypnotises me I still don't think I would sleep. I'll keep trying but thanks for your reply.
My fitbit (also a Christmas present!) used to flash out blue light in the night. Just more interference in our rhythms from external objects I feel. I gave it up and I can say that my sleep improved. But that was before I got PMR and set my alarm for 2am!!
I have noticed it just a couple of times. Must have been awake when it happened. I've tried wearing eye pads now. They seem to be helping and I don't find them uncomfortable. Had 4 hours last night which is a little better. Started doing a puzzle for about 1 hour before I go to bed. I'll try anything. I sometimes feel hungry about 8/9 pm but I won't eat then as I am fasting from my meal at round about 5pm till 7am. Find my pmr is better if I don't overeat now and it's helping keeping my weight off. You can't win with everything with this complaint can you. We'll beat it won't we.
We will Cosmos22Marigold! By listening to our needs and being kind to ourselves.😀
I am trying the diffuser that you recommended. Seems to help somewhat, but I still wake at stupid o clock
I've found that it obviously doesn't prevent me from waking during the night, but it definitely helps me relax and therefore puts me in a better mindset for eventually drifting off to sleep. The more I use it, the more effective it seems to become. However, I don't use it every night....on those nights that I know I'll probably be ok I leave it off (I can always switch it on if I'm wrong and find I can't get to sleep) I don't want to become completely dependent on it. Being selective with essential oils also makes a difference, so a good quality one with aromas that promote relaxation, rest and sleep is what to look for.Like any sleep inducing 'remedy'....it's unlikely to resolve the problem completely, but if it eases or minimises it then that has to be a good thing. I hope you find it helps you.
I find a calcium pill last thing, and Melvin Bragg’s ‘In our Time’ in the headphones, only just loud enough to strain to hear! He sends me off and the calcium keeps me asleep longer. I wake up to Boyle’s Law after I have gone off to China’s Cultural Revolution. It sounds like I am joking but works well most of the time.
Thankyou for your suggestions. I've not heard of a link between calcium and sleep before. Interesting!
Both calcium and magnesium are said to help sleep:
After reading on here that calcium helps with sleep I take my calci d at bedtime with spoonful of yoghurt. I’ve had good night sleep since.
Just as you mentioned it, I really believe sleep is under rated. It is of vital importance for all things both physical and mental. Have a listen to what Matthew Walker says about it. He’s a neuroscientist specialising in sleep. Also, good quality CBD really helped my sleep.
You're completely right......good quality sleep is the foundation stone for promoting and maintaining good health, and when it's lacking in both quantity and quality that can be a worry. For people such as ourselves, sleep will regularly elude us, so we have to make a choice....either we worry about it, stress over it and therefore further aggravate our health and well being.... or we accept it as part of our 'situation' (at least for now) and do the best we can to embrace anything that's safe and effective to enhance our sleep.
I think, previous posts, there were a number of us who joined the over eating at Christmas club. Sleep that's another interesting conundrum, I think that even taking on board all that the experts say its quite an indidual thing, some people seem to need many more hours than others. I have been very used to disturbed, sleepless nights since having OA in the 90's. Lying in bed, tossing and turning because no position is comfortable and then worrying and stressing about not sleeping is a bigger problem than getting up, having a drink, reading quietly in a very comfortable chair or setee, watching TV and moving around when necessary. I guess my body and mind has got used to this, so the sleep factor of Pred and PMR is not something I have found particularly stressful. I take my Pred around 02:00 which seems to work for me, as many here know I'm generally around on the forum at this time and may even be walking the dogs. Actually did two hours work this morning, but that's another matter!!!
Hi Bcol.Well, weirdly, I've just slept from 10.30pm through till 7am!! I even woke at 1.30am, went to the loo and then managed to get straight back to sleep! I'd so like to know what it is I do differently (or don't do!) that makes the difference between a good night's sleep and a bad one!
At the moment I've the added worry of whether my house is going to flood! The meadow opposite us is designated flood plain....which is fine....unless the water rises further, as it did in 2001, when it took 6months living in a rented house whilst ours was fixed! Currently the water has burst the river, come across the meadow and our road, and is up 2 of of our 6 front doorsteps! It's snowing now, with more rain forecast this afternoon, so I could be afloat by tomorrow!!😄 Keeping my fingers and toes crossed!
You'll have had your early morning walk?? Was it in the snow?
That's not good news re the water, I'll keep everything crossed for you. Fantastic night's sleep, sometimes it just happens without any seeming ryme nor reason. An added bonus to life that day!! Just got back from walk, no snow but absolutely tiddling down, full waterproofs on but everything still straight in the washing machine, contemplated putting the dogs in as well, as they were as muddy as they were wet, but relented and did them by hand. Hope all goes well for the rest of the day, but realistically I don't think the forecast is on your side. Fingers crossed. Take care and possibly move a few things upstairs now rather than leaving it until last minute. Sorry probably teaching Grandma how to suck eggs, or whatever the phrase is.
Haha! Thankyou. Yes....we have a flood 'plan of action' in place. The meadow has always been designated flood plain and our houses were built 3m above highest recorded water level.....until 2001!!!! Since then, we've never been flooded again but had 2 close calls over the years. This is the 3rd one! Thankyou for your concern. On the upside, the 'lake' outside our house looks really beautiful and there are so many water birds to see.
That's not good. Flooding is horrendous. Do hope levels do not rise any more.
Thankyou. Me too!
As if sleep wasn't enough to worry about then you have this problem. Hope you keep dry and well done on that good night's sleep.
Thankyou.
Haha! Completely became distracted there with my potential flooding! I meant to also say, that I agreed with you about no longer really worrying too much about the sleepless nights. I'd obviously prefer to be able to sleep but fighting it just makes me feel worse and as I can rest during the day anyway, there's no significant reason to allow it to stress me further. Interestingly, I did actually have my oil diffuser on last night!
Now, when I can't sleep, I more readily accept its going to be one of those nights and will get comfortable with my hot water bottle next to me....my book and the news to read on my phone. I of course visit my friends here too. 🙂
Hi Kendrew. I’ve been reading all your posts on lack of sleep. Up until a couple of years ago I had terrible insomnia (I sometimes wonder if it was this that triggered my pmr). It lasted for me for 2-3 years, not being able to get to sleep until 1, 2,3 am or even later and always being awake by 6am. Having tried everything under the sun, I finally heard of Dr Guy Meadows’ methods. I would highly recommend his book, The Sleep School and he also has an app which is easy to follow. You do have to subscribe to that but it was worth it for me. It’s a completely different method to anything else and is based on acceptance and commitment. Unless it is pain keeping you awake, I would highly recommend this method.
You mentioned that you don't use the diffuser "if you think you will sleep well" - what makes you think that you don't need it? What are the signs?
If I've had a really bad night when I've not managed to fall asleep at all, I'm so tired the next night that I'm falling asleep as I'm reading, so I know once I settle down I'll drop off easily. Seems to always be the case that If I'm nodding off whilst I read a chapter of my book, I always manage to fall asleep reasonably ok.
If only!!! I nod off in front of the TV or while reading but in bed - wide awake!!! Or I get to sleep OK but wake sometime 3 and 4 and am awake for a couple of hours. I think I hear people getting up for work/leaving the block. Not being noisy - but I have awfully sensitive hearing.
Then OH brings a cup of tea about 7 and I can drop off at half past ...
Will do thanks. I really need some sleep.
Morning, not come across TRE before, learn something new everyday, actually I learn many new things every day on this forum. Anyway, you are certainly right in saying that keeping your weight under control is a huge benifit if you have OA and unhappy knee and other associated joints. I don't specifically diet, let alone fast but I do eat at regular ish times and rarely snack. I have a banana and yogurt with my Pred around 02:00 ish, breakfast around 08:30 ish, usually porridge, lunch if anything but often don't bother, bit naughty there and reasonable tea/dinner around 18:00. Nothing after this other than drinks, tea etc.
This might seem a bit off topic, but if you are interested in trying to heal your body with nutrition you should look into the book “Liver Rescue” by Medical Medium. Or any of his books really. I read it and did the 9 day cleanse and feel amazing. The last day is a juice fast, so your comment popped out to me.
Hi, really interesting. Please let us know how you get on.I have read about how fasting can "re-boot" our systems.
I recently did a couple of weeks eating around 700 kcals a day, and felt better than I have for ages.
Overate during Christmas, and back to feeling rubbish again.
Am planning on dropping my BMI to around 20, see if that helps!
🙂
I think it’s good to stop eating at 8 pm - in reality usually earlier and fast TIL breakfast at 8 pm
When I have increased RA Inflammation/swelling, I juice for 3 days and it goes away in general. I know if I don’t eat or drink water for a day, the inflammation goes down. But, juicing also seems to help.
" if I don’t eat or drink water for a day" - do you really mean you don't drink water for a day?
There was a study that showed a strict vegan diet reduced joint pain in 50% of the RA patients followed but it returned as soon as any animal protein was returned to the diet, even a small amount.
So sorry! I meant I drink water, but don’t eat (or juice), just water. But that was before I figured out juicing, mostly green and veggie vs. fruit, for 3 days will quiet my inflammation, and I then go on to eat a regular food diet. For me, that’s always 80% anti inflammatory foods - very similar to Mediterranean diet. But since moving to the UK I do have treats like the wonderful cakes here way too often :). I think the years prior of eating so well means I can have a more expansive diet, but for several years it was absolutely no dairy or gluten or red meat and mostly veggies and lean proteins and healthy fats. I also always have omega 3 supplements (2000-5000mg a day) as that helps me. Everyone is different. I didn’t find vegan or paleo helped me exclusively. As long as I keep my nutrients up and eat healthy, Whole Foods I do well. And, as mentioned, on my off days I juice. Maybe happens twice a year? Of course tomorrow is another day with these diseases, so.... (per the conversation above, I also use a CPAP and getting sleep was a game-changer. I hit my RA and AS on all fronts - I do yoga for stress as well. Stress, sleep, diet. And I love my meds. I am grateful for the the drugs we have now that my aunt, who died from complications of RA and mom, who is disabled with AS, didn’t have early in their diseases.)
Studies have shown that body recovery is improved by over 30% when eating no meat in a 24 hour period. I was plant based however for nearly a year, and didn't make a difference but going back to it now to maintain weight and seeing if it helps this time.
Very possibly - but we have both veggies and vegans on the forum who developed PMR and GCA.
Hi Nicobeak
I have a book by Upton Sinclair called the fasting cure which is very interesting. Lots of research in this book.
17 months ago I fasted for 5 whole days only drinking water, no medication
and every bit of my pains disappeared, with the support of my doctor i kept an eye on my blood pressure and blood sugar every 2 hours in the day time. it was heaven however like PMRpro said as soon as you start eating again the pains come back.
I now eat for 8 hours a day however this has not helped my pains, weight or sleep.
Whenever I eat rice pasta potato bread etc at tea time I feel awful and sleep really poor. Food is definitely a reactor to my PMR pain.
I tapered off preds 7 weeks ago after 25 months.
my doctors advised this because every muscle hurt in my body.
I still suffer from painful hips and shoulders and also painful numbness in my neck and down my arms and feet.
However the pain in all my muscles has now disappeared which was very debilitating.
I have a rheumatologist phone appointment next week and was going to ask for a kennalog steroid injection to see if it will help me. Not sure what other drugs I can be offered.
Sleep no better either.
Another more recent book is the 5-2 fasting book by Michael Mosley. He tried a full 5 days fasting and felt great but suggested we eat less for 2 days a week.
There is also the Paddison programme that you can read by Clint Paddison. He goes back to very basics and Introduces foods slowly to see what your triggers are. It’s for rheumatoid arthritis but can help other Inflammatory diseases.
I have never advised anyone to fast it’s up to the individual, just sharing my experience.
In all the books it says it’s helps to reset the bacteria in your gut.
I
Hope this is useful
You were told to stop taking pred because of muscle pain? May I ask why you started taking it in the first place? At least in my case muscle pain is PMR!
Can you explain why a systemic steroid injection would be a better choice than ongoing low dose oral therapy? I'm genuinely curious about this. Hadn't heard of it before, only the injections for joints which are ultimately counter-productive.
I was diagnosed with PMR in my hips, bottom of my spine and shoulders in October 2018 and started on 20 mg steroids. This was a great relief.
The rheumatologist I saw 5 months later didn’t seem interested because in my treatment as I was only 49.
12 - 18 months later all my muscles in my body apart from my head started to hurt plus I had small ruptures in my legs.
My doctor thought it could be the side effect of the steroids and wanted me to tapper off them ASAP. I have now been off steroids for 7 weeks and even if I still have horrific fatigue and still some pain in my hips and shoulders my muscle are much much better.
Therefore If I can help it I don’t want to go back on oral steroids.
My brother suffers with Palandromuc rheumatism and has these Kenalog injections which helps the swelling in his joints, I want to ask the rheumatologist if it would help me.
It is a steroid injection that you have in your backside which can help your whole body. If I can’t try that I will ask for injections in my hips
I maybe clutching at straws hoping for more relief.
That is very interesting. Sounds like you've had a terrible time. What sort of dose of pred were you on when these side effects started to cause so much trouble? I hope those at least have cleared up. I also hope you do get some helpful treatment. Best wishes.
I started with trouble on around 15mg but didn’t go to the doctor until I was down to 5mg.
I feel if you call the doctors since covid they make you feel like it’s not important because so many people are dying of covid. You always get the message is it an emergency.
The very reason health care officials wanted the politicians to clamp down right at the start and to keep up the protections to keep down the numbers. I know covid takes priority because it's so infectious, but for the individual involved it's not really more important than situations like yours, or the person who is missing routine cancer screening, etc. Really an impossible situation. We do indeed live in interesting times.....
I've done the 8/16 fasting for over two years. I don't eat a lot and it suits me fine. I did take off about 6 kilos but then the loss of weight seemed to stop, now I'm steady on 157 kilos (9 stone). If I started losing weight again I would go back to eating a little something before going to bed.
Sounds like we have lots in common. PMR started in my knees 3 years ago, although I'm currently at 9/8.5. I too have lost weight which helps, but with covid this year, and now no deep water exercises (only winter walks), I find 5 pounds has crept back on. Was just going to start TRE next week (10am - 6pm), and believe eliminating snacking in the evening will hopefully result in more (necessary) weight loss for me.
Lots of great responses to your enquiry. Good luck.
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