Flu jabs

[maria40]

I'm trying to find out about the interactions between those who are immuno-suppressed and recipients of of live flu jabs. Is there a time limit on contact? I'm planning to get one - though I haven't in previous years - and my grandson, going into Year 7 will presumably get one at school. I've seen so little of him in the past three/four months and had hoped we'd have a little more contact soon. He starts school in September and I shall get my flu jab as soon as I get the notification.

I'm sure PMRpro will have then answer to this. Thanks in advance.

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer]

Your vaccine will not be the live version - so no issue . I had mine all through my GCA/Pred days.

Your grandson’s will be the live version.

Nhs guidance - nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinati...

[maria40 in reply to DorsetLady]

Thank you for this. I knew that his was to be live and mine inactivated but was not sure how long - if at all - I would have to avoid him after his vaccination. Seven days will not be the end of the world after 3+ months!

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to maria40]

No it won’t!

[PMRpro Ambassador]

You mean you are concerned about needing to avoid him after HE gets the live vaccine?

oxfordahsn.org/wp-content/u...

verywellhealth.com/live-vac...

may help settle your concerns.

And this

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/186...

says "Shedding was generally of short duration and at low titers. Study findings support the current recommendation of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices that LAIV recipients should only avoid contact with severely immunosuppressed persons (e.g., hematopoietic stem cell transplant recipients) for 7 days after vaccination."

All the situations they speak about are people who are severely immunocopromised - and we really aren't, even at higher doses of pred. I doubt you have much to worry about - and he is old enough to wear a mask when with you for that week if you are really worried.

[maria40 in reply to PMRpro]

Thanks so much for that. I was worried about having to avoid him for another long period.

And I hadn't thought about the mask wearing - his and mine.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to maria40]

You'd need to avoid him for longer if either of you got the flu!!!!

[SheffieldJane in reply to maria40]

This whole thread just makes me long for a big, slobbery, grandson, kiss. I envy you the dazzling possibility! 😁 ( my 3 are in Australia).

[maria40 in reply to SheffieldJane]

He's getting to the age where kisses are seen as a bit sloppy but we'll still have a good hug. I'll keep my distance for a week after he has his flu jab (or spray) I'm looking forward to seeing them properly next week when shielding ends .

[SheffieldJane in reply to maria40]

Lucky you! 🤗

[Blossom20 in reply to PMRpro]

How immunocompromised are we on Pred at say 15mg? I know that's difficult to answer...but for example normal healthy people can fight off colds and such like...how weakened is our immune system?

[maria40 in reply to Blossom20]

I really don't know. My concern is with my cumulative dose, although at the moment I'm on 12mg , I've been taking steroids for 20 years now mostly at around 5mg and don't know how much that affects my present immunity or lack of it. I remember the first NHS advice on shielding mentioned doses above 20mg but nothing about a cumulative dose. How long have you been taking them?

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to maria40]

Don't think cumulative dose affects the immune system - it is the dose you are on at the time that might. 5mg is well within the physiological dose range - if you weren't taking pred then your body would be making more cortisol so overall there wouldn't be a great change.

I've given up worrying about cumulative dose too - 11 years and lots of that time on above 10mg and I haven't disintegrated. Yet anyway

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Blossom20]

Don't know - depends on the person I think, I don't seem to get worse infections on pred and I'm at 15mg and have been for a long time.

[maria40 in reply to PMRpro]

Well, I suppose the answer is to get flu and pneumonia jabs, wear a mask and keep our fingers crossed because this seems to be a long haul.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to maria40]

Think washing the fingers might be even better

But long haul? Definitely. And the sooner everyone gets into the habits we need to encourage the better!

[maria40 in reply to PMRpro]

Just listened to a very sobering podcast from the Guardian which suggests that immunity - whether natural after illness or from vaccine - may only last for two or three months. The hope it seems is now to produce or stimulate T cells which fight the infection and also some hope for Interferon B. So much for BJ's 'back to normal by Christmas'!

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to maria40]

I read in our local paper yesterday that the first person to be identifed with CV in Germany already has no antibodies that are measurable. They do think that it is possible the memory MAY persist (that means the immune system can respond if you are reinfected) but they don't know if that applies to the natural antibodies as it should with the Oxford vaccine. The conclusion must be that even if they can produce a vaccine, it is likely to be one that must be repeated at intervals. It also is a factor in the use of donated plasma - how long will a recovered patient have enough to help another sick patient?

As for BoJo's back to normal by xmas - where have you heard that before? That's what they thought in both WWs. It isn't going to go away any time soon - too few have had it to have any hope of herd immunity but it is now in the poorer countries who have little option besides letting it run rampant - you can't social distance in the favellas and townships.

[maria40 in reply to PMRpro]

Six monthly vaccinations were suggested in the podcast but all is uncertain yet.

Bought a bargain package of hand soap yesterday - sounds as though it may be needed.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to maria40]

Hope they can develop and sub cutaneous version that many of us can administer ourselves!!! Though it will help the unemployment figures as they will have to take on hundreds to give the jabs!!! Nice little number for retired doctors and nurses ...

[Jan_Noack in reply to PMRpro]

antibodies were expected to drop to unmeasurable in a few month..so as expected. They had hoped perhaps T-cells might provide some at least partial immunity for longer? Did they measure T-cells? Is that not possible in blood or saliva?

The other question I have had re immunity from the SARS-CoV-2 virus is as Eurasians at least seem to have some partial immunity against the common cold in that it seems to affect aboriginals in Australia and perhaps native in St America worse? ..or maybe it is their poor living conditions with the cold on top? ..but I thought it may be that either..we have undergone selection of the fittest re the common cold? (I know a few different viruses here and some (4?) coronviruses)..or we have somehow developed some immunity, maybe T-Cells? I never worked it out from reading papers.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Jan_Noack]

T-cells are the hope for one of the vaccine approaches - there are several concepts. But all of it is an unknown as yet.