healthunlocked.com/vasculit...
This has just been posted on the VasculitisUK forum and I thought some people here might find it helpful. Sorry it isn't terribly clear - but I can just read it on my Chromebook.
Also p2 here:
Should you be shielding or just being REALLY stri... - PMRGCAuk
Should you be shielding or just being REALLY strict about keeping away from people? A flow chart from Addenbrookes to work it out
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•
Is this the same flow chart on the read more here bit at the bottom of the page? I can't tell on the phone.
cuh.nhs.uk/for-patients/out...
Yes, page 2 of the pdf that pops up when you click on "read our advice here" (in orange at the bottom of the page)
cuh.nhs.uk/sites/default/fi...
• in reply toPMRpro
Thanks for confirmation.👍
As usual: THANK YOU!
All very well to tell everyone over 70 to stay indoors ("no exercising outdoors") even if no other risk factors but I'm not staying inside until the local authorities tell me to. I am well used to social isolation, but my daily walk keeps me sane. Or at least as sane as possible 🤪
They have in the UK - the death rate from Covid 19 climbs every 5 years over the age of 65. It isn't just for you - it is for everyone else and, above all, the healthcare system.
If they fall or are involved in even a minor accident, over 70s in general require a lot more input from the ambulance service and also from the ED. They haven't made such a stipulation here either - but we are not supposed to be more than 2-300m from our residence in the first place.
We are not being separated out as a special group. We all know we are at greater risk with every year of age we have, in fact they talk about "over 60" here. Every province has developed its own protocols. We are a relatively small jurisdiction. We are not allowed to drive to parks or trails. Most parks are closed and the walking trails within the city are restricted only to people who actually live in the neighbourhood to avoid crowding. A woman was fined yesterday and had her car impounded and towed at her expense when she was caught walking in one of our parks.
Our restaurants and pubs etc were closed weeks ago when there was only a handful of cases. Ditto with schools. Anyone who could be set up to work from home now does and an awful lot of businesses and most shops are closed and have been for several weeks. The self-isolation for people coming from abroad was put into place early on and extended to Canada a few days ago.
If a returning passenger, or if you have any suspicious symptoms, you have to self-isolate for two weeks, which means not leaving your own property but if you have a garden you can go into your own garden, provided you are symptom free. We have to designate one person to be the food shopper for the family and in fact I haven't needed to visit a supermarket for nearly two weeks. We are only allowed to drive to get food, medicine or to see the doctor. Otherwise we must stay within our own neighbourhood which I think may be defined as a radius of 2 km. My daily walks are within that radius. And I am becoming skilled at the new sport of the pedestrian shuffle!
Far from being confined we are being encouraged to go outside, practice physical distancing, and get fresh air and exercise as this is considered good for our health. Then when we come in, wash hands!
Most of the time I could cope with 2-300m, but there isn't one shop in that distance from me!
That's different - if you are going for essential supplies, that is allowed.
Thank you. My daughter-in-law did my shopping today but there were some items in short supply. I needed high-grade flour to make bread and there is absolutely no flour in the the big supermarkets. Loo paper yes. No flour. I knew the 'open all hours'-type superette up the road would have some but d-i-l drove 9kms and I wasn't going to ask her to come back and shop around. So I went and got flour. Had to stand in queue of three (8pm) at 2 metre distance and only one person allowed in the shop. I felt guilty breaking the curfew but as you say - it was for essential supplies. I must have my home-made bread!
They have in Panama as well. We're on a 24 hour curfew with one person in the household allowed out to shop foe essential groceries or medicine, go to the bank, or attend medical appointments. That one person is allowed out for only two hours. The two hour window is defined for individuals based on the last digit of their resident card (all Panamanians have one) or passport. For those over 60 the window is from 11 am to 1 pm.
All the major grocery stores in our area are well stocked and there is no panic buying.
Heron, your treadmill would be getting well used here.
People are being arrested for walking their dog.
• in reply tonuigini
My dog has got used to daily play with me and garden play by herself. She had one walk in almost 3 weeks I think. I got one in before the door slammed. Isolation means isolation. For the greater good in the end. We are all sacrificing something of our sanity aren't we!
Breconblue• in reply to
I have a VERY highly strung border collie who is used to four walks a day. I haven’t been well enough to do my usual two and HB gets up 5 am to do his one and only. I set up jumps and a tunnel in the garden and there’s always ball! The garden is small though ( lucky to have I appreciate) but, if anything having the dog constantly eyeballing and whining is the thing that’s driving me crazy ! Should have stuck to cats 🐈
• in reply toBreconblue
😂🤣😂. Oh yes. Working dogs...mines a working cocker but us almost 13. Has aged in the past month as walks drifted off..
My treadmill sits in what is now my son's basement. I can't visit him. We are practicing physical distancing and not going into each other's residences. We give each other "air hugs".
Going for a walk each day is not Social Isolation in the terms of this Disease guidelines , even if it feels Socially isolated to you.
That is classed as Stay at Home rules for Healthy people who are not classed as being in a High Risk or Vulnerable category.
Being over 70 is classed as being a group whom should choose to Self Isolate , not popping out for walks , because of the degenerative stage the internal body is at even if you are a Healthy Over 70 year old with no Underlying Health issues.
As Pro points out above it is also to reduce the risk of Over 70' s getting other infections or accidental injuries forcing them to require Medically Assistance at a time when it is not easily available.
It is obviously your choice but not every Country will send every individual a letter or text ordering you to take this decision . They are giving you strong advice and are hoping you will take the sensible decision to do it yourself.
Hopefully , your choice to wait will not mean you catch the infection or have another issue that causes you to need a hospital at this time which would make your ill or take time away from Doctors that could be used on Emergency Patients.
The rules we have here are designed for where I live. And I believe we shut things down much earlier on than in the UK. If the authorities feel that they have no choice but to lock down the entire population it will be the law and I will follow it. I actually don't believe they will force elders to stay in and not do the same to everyone.
Personally I don't see it as "forcing elders to stay in" but "making it clear they need more protection than others and encouraging them to take some responsibility". In the UK there are special measures to help those told to self-isolate - not available for those who aren't.
• in reply toBlearyeyed
People's response to such crises are determined by their general characteristics in life and in their belief systems, which are hard to change fully. The hoarders could have be mere panic and mob mentality, but I hope if I had been able to shop I would not have participated. My conscience wouldn't allow that I hope. The world as I have seen it, in very simple terms, is shaped by those who give more than they take, those who take more than they give and those say they give but take and those who deny they take but give. We float between those ideas and actions, using our own moral code to determine how we should behave ethically. The main thing is these are not fixed positions, but are a tapestry of decision making ,weaving in and out of each role. Or like a symphony with all the notes playing out, but one taking over for a particular set of social circumstances or part of the performance. It's always decisions, decisions and hoping need, want and a moral compass have a true meaning in our lives. I always hope hardship provides that opportunity to be better not bitter. Fortunately in the UK, the betterness is winning in some places more than the selfish bitterness. Though people are still driving miles just to take a "dog" for a walk or a group bbq. Sorry it's my 2.30am wonderings of the mind trying to understand behaviour in simple everyday terms combined with moral philosophy.
Blearyeyed• in reply to
Very philosophical for the time of day , be better not bitter , I like that.
Seeing that little chink of light will keep us all going.
I refused to have my mood affected for too long by others behaviour long ago.
Holding on to grudges , grief , regrets and bitterness does terrible things to our health and that of those around us.
Plus , I know I'm not a salmon so I don't need to waste my energy swimming upstream . Or I'm too lazy ..... 😋😂😂😂🐘
• in reply toBlearyeyed
Can't claim the better not bitter it was a little ditty by a bloke about managing obstacles in life like chronic illness. 🐘🌻
maria40• in reply to
Rather lyrical wanderings I think.
• in reply tomaria40
Actually based on Aristotles thinking as well as other moral philosophers and contemporary research. The discussion of the relationships of morality and ethics in everyday life including the musical metaphor is a part of moral philosophy and has been used by people to explore the nature of the relationship between good and evil as well as everyday behaviour. This is a simple version, discussing morality is part of philosophy, anthropology and other studies or everyday life using various empirical and theoretical approaches.
I was able to save an image of the chart as a word document and expanded it to be more readable. Thanks.
Good to have this clarified as much as possible. Once again, thanks, PMRpro, where would we be without you!
Thank you so much PMRpro. I'm shielding and following all the advice given, including my husband and I keeping at least 2 metres apart indoors (not always easy is it?). Then I noticed out toothbrushes are leaning against each other in their holder, so I'm separating them too! Better safe than sorry 
• in reply toJanetRosslyn
It's amazing how you realise what you put where and how you realise how much stuff in the house you touch during the day!
They recommend separate bathrooms!!! Obviously from people with too much money - though believe me, it should be compulsory
Yes, it made me Laugh they assume that you have an en suite or at least a separate WC available in every home. If not , you are meant to keep all of your towels separately and any cleaning products you use away from those of others.
You are meant to make sure you rota the bathroom so you use it first ( I did wonder if that meant I could only use the loo once a day ) when others use the bathroom toilet, sink or shower they are meant to thoroughly clean over whatever they used to try to reduce the risk to Shielded People .
Three room flat - one ensuite and one full bathroom! But it was to use as a skiing holiday flat. And NOTHING would persuade me to live in a house without a separate second loo!
It's on the list to sort out this year as I shouldn't be walking up and down stairs all the time to use the loo , but obviously just as we were about to start planning it a little thing called Covid turned up 😣
I did the same with my Son we now have a side of the bathroom cabinet each
The times we have walked around the dinning room table to stay out of each others way I think I get plenty of exercise dodging him each day .
All I get each day is wash your hands ,dont open the door dont pick up mail .
I think I am allowed to breath .
Its hard work but know he is trying to protect me .
We can do this Rose. Keep smiling
We can and we will come out the other side
Iv just got up and all ready thinking what can we have for lunch
Take Care
Really appreciate that chart!
Thankyou, that makes things clear.
Thank you so much, really clear,even to me.
• in reply toFreshmimt
It took me a while to find the blue box.....🙄
scats• in reply to
Have you been on the licquorice again?
• in reply toscats
I wish... My blood pressure was running a bit high so just as well. It was the pistachio nuts, dried apricots and....veggie marshmallows. 😋
scats• in reply to
Naughty!
Constance13• in reply to
"Veggie marshmallows"? Whatever next?
• in reply toConstance13
Everything without gelatine...or the bones and scrapings from the abattoir floor it's made from. 😉
Constance13• in reply to
😟😟
• in reply toConstance13
Don't worry if you eat the rest of the animal you may as well make use from nose to tail as they say!
Constance13• in reply to
I don't eat meat! I'm not a "chosen" veggie but I just 'went off' meat about a year ago (just don't like it in my mouth)!! I'll willingly eat things that have been cooked in meat (like sauces, etc).
• in reply toConstance13
Ok...see why you yukked. My older sister is a bit like that but doesn't like to cook it. 🌻
Constance13• in reply to
Oh I have no trouble cooking meat in all forms for my OH.
• in reply toConstance13
Oh dear...I did start out not liking the taste and texture, or seeing whole chicken in the shops, 30years ago. It sounds daft but no one had heard of going vegetarian really from my background then...meat and 2 veg. When someone said I didn't have to eat it I was so relieved I went vegan for 8 years.
Thank you - that’s helpful
Thanks for posting. I must admit surprise that I would now be classed as “ moderate” ( in the same category as Diabetes, heart/ lung disease) just for taking a low dose anti hypertensive med, Ramipril 2.5 mg. apart from this I would be “ low risk “
You do have to look at co-morbidities - hypertension itself is a risk factor the same as diabetes and heart conditions. It is because if you were to develop Covid 19 it makes management more difficult.
Thanks PMRpro. This is the same flow chart Leeds are using so don't know if all rheumatology depts. nationally are using it. My concern is that if people follow this advice but have not received the "official letter" telling them to shield, then how will help for those without family support etc be identified. Not sure if I read somewhere they were talking to Government Health ministers about the risks and advice they were giving to their patients .
Thank you. This confirms what I had worked out after I didn't receive a letter. But glad to have it clarified. I'm not going anywhere and haven't for the past three weeks.
I've had to scroll through so much stuff on dogs, marshmallows, what's closed in different places etc on here to see if there is anything I need to know, for me and for giving out as Helpline advice. Please could we have a general chit-chat thread for anything not PMR related rather than go off at tangents in a very important post like this that people need to know?
I doubt it would work - the chitchat develops from the conversation, just as in real live conversations. They are in nested sub-threads so are realtively easy to ignore for most people - not the mods, we have to read them too in case something is mixed up in them.
Exactly, that's the problem, there may be something useful in the threads I and others need to know, but I have to wade through all the nonsense first, HealthUnlocked is supposed to be about PMR support and guidance not for talking about dogs and gardens etc etc, people can do that on Facebook or whatsApp or whatever. It would just help everybody if we kept on topic. The thread you started here is very important - people are ringing the Helpline and asking us about this!
• in reply totangocharlie
Btw...my dog, garden and diet are as important to my physical and mental health with PMR as are water filters to yours. Yes, it would be nice if all the chit chat was confined but there are nicer ways to disparage people's discussions than as "nonsense". They may impact their lives as much as sugar, antihistamines, water filters and low carb diets obviously impact yours. You don't have to read it all. But please try and not be so judgemental about what aspects of life impact other peoples illness, or how coping strategies work. Please pm or ask for housekeeping. I don't mind removing marshmallow talk, but refuse to remove dog, walk and garden issues which are vital to my continuing balance of health and illness with PMR.
tangocharlie• in reply to
I'm saying all that is fine, but better in separate posts. It would be easier to find things if we stick to one topic at a time. Unlike you I wasn't being personal, ouch!
• in reply totangocharlie
Given that I mentioned dogs gardens and marshmallows it felt personal. But I was making a point..one person's nonsense is another person's lifeline/helpline...ouchy back.
And if you know of a way to achieve it - do tell us.
To be honest you are lucky that covid chat is being allowed on this forum at all. This is for pmr amd gva not covid amd after a discussion with admin we agreed we would try and help but if the topic gets lighter then you would like then thats because members want it to be and we are also forum members in our own right and if we make things lighter then so be it. O personally dont want to hear about things like water filters but accept that you do. This thread will go the way ALL members want it to go. If you require just plain covid facts then google provides lots of sites where this is possible. YBB
I agree. I don't think this was meant to be the daily chat line. Where is today's daily chat line?
Personally I think the moderators should have a daily moderators corner where they post interesting links like this but don't allow replies. Keeps all their useful contributions together. Covid conversation can then go on the general covid thread. There is also a covid forum on HU where people can post as much as they like about covid.
• in reply toHeronNS
There is a covid chat. Look harder. It's the Dorothy Byrne article.
We want to phase it out but actually people just keep posting so that's a fact of life.
Don't worry your resource list is linked if that's your concern.
Thank you for your kindness and understanding over the past weeks.
HeronNS• in reply to
Sorry, I never saw that. I was looking for something with a date.
• in reply toHeronNS
Thank you for the apology. No problem.
HeronNS• in reply to
Oh I am always willing to apologise when I am wrong. I looked last night as late as midnight my time, and again at 8 am this morning and I did not see it. Not having had any trouble finding it any other day I did wonder where it was. Was there any problem asking where it was? I see now that I'm back online that it is there as expected.
Yet I fail to see where I was rude? I would like that spelled out to me so that I can avoid it in future as, being a sensitive soul myself, I don't want to hurt others. And please, if you don't mind, keep it in public. I am sometimes afraid to look at private messages.
This is a pmr/gca firum not a covid one. We do the covid bit on top of our moderator duties which as has been mentioned before takes up over 36 hours a day between us. I often put in up to 16 hours a day which you yourself should know as i am still online at 4am. The other mods work similar hours and to be honest we dont have the time or energy to set up even more threads that need constant input from us. Please try and consider how much work you are asking us to commit to before suggesting it to the forum. YBB
I looked for the March 31st one several times.
All I suggested was that when you mods want to post a covid related link you also have your own dedicated daily post where these posts, often with very interesting and pertinent information, will be together, and if you cut off replies, suggesting the discussion of those links go to the covid thread, then you are probably also lessening your load.
If anyone fails to follow that thread when they first look at it they won't get notifications of further additions to it. It would probably be a good idea if the format here was different - but all we do is bound by the way the forum works. I have said several times that there is another forum format I use that would be ideal for these multiple approaches - but this one doesn't facilitate that. It is what it is,
There is no lessening of the load as people are insisting on posting covid related info wherever they like irrelevant of instructions repeated on an almost hourly basis. Its not hard, this is a pmr and gca site and the admin and mods are.allowing covid to be discussed to supposedly help members but when members want lots of separate threads or constantly post on the forum repeating the same stuff that has been discussed for over two weeks solidly without looking first to see it their query has been mentioned (and it will have been, i will almost guarantee it) then we can not simply allow covid any more of our time and energy. There are plenty of places to get more info on covid if this forum is not providing enough or if members feel there should be no levity at all. Everyone on this forum is capable of using the internet to get more info should they so wish. We are trying our best and if thats not good enough for everyone then i suggest they speak to admin. YBB
I feel like I've been punched in the stomach. I can't read any more. I was trying to make a suggestion which I thought might be helpful. I did not know until five minutes ago that the covid thread was going to be phased out and my suggestion therefore would be irrelevant.
Its the idea that setting up more threads or posts will help restrain people. It wont because people are just not taking notice of us. Sorry you dont like what i have said but to be honest i am sick of spending 16 hours a day repeating myself and i simply dont have the energy to give to making more posts or threads on a subject that has nothing to do with pmr or gca. We have given everyrhing to try and help with covid worries and we.simply dont have the energy or time to do more.xxYBB
I might add my reply to you is not necessarily all about you but everyone who asks the same questions over and over o the main forum and not the covid thread. Its not personal its called tired and fed up.YBB
Thank you
I phoned my GP this morning as I haven't received a letter she confirms anyone above more than 5 mg a day of Preds are in the Shielding group.
So that's it for me at least I have a garden
Only drawback is a fence panel has blown down and needs to be replaced and until it is I have to put up with my Neighbour telling me he may go out on his motorbike today as its a nice day.
If it wasn't for the distancing rule I would hit him
Anyone got a baseball bat ?
PMRproAmbassador
"I am off pred for PMR." - ?????? if you went from 5 to 7mg?
Thanks again for info.
I found this really interesting but while the flow chart puts me at high risk the govt guidelines don’t ... which means I can’t access any of the priority on line shopping spots. I managed to get a couple early on but now there’s nothing ☹️
Your GP should be able to provide a letter of confirmation - and there is a helpline if you haven't received a letter or text. They have been delayed for some because the original automised approach missed some people and they are being identified manually and the letters/messages will be delayed. They were also to be later, up to the end of this week, in Scotland and Wales.
I don’t know why I find this difficult- as though I’m making a fuss about nothing and am worried about being dismissed as though I’m asking for something I don’t deserve...
My nephew is off - not entirely sure why as I didn't think his asthma was that bad, they have moved the goalposts for that too, not all asthmatics are included now.
I never really considered OH asthma as that serious but apparently it is!!! Oops!!YBB
It is in the context of a severe and novel form of pneumonia which the mild form may progress to requiring O2 management.
• in reply toEnfin
Please. If you are isolated in the end or can't get out then you have to make full use of the services. I thought I could manage shielded without registering for help. But once the actual reality bit I realised isolation meant just that. I am lucky I am close to one neighbour who has brought my meds and a couple of things like bread and milk. If you have neighbours, could they help a little? I think I got the last slot at my supermarket and ordered 3 weeks ago and it gets delivered 9th April. I have been saved by a veg box from a small wholefood shop so think outside normal shops too. If someone offers to pick something up say yes please.
I have got to say despite filling in the help register ,,,,nothing is transparently happening.
Thank you, very useful.
Awesome, thank you!
Risk calculator - just add up the numbers. 3 = shield!!!
versusarthritis.org/covid-1...
• in reply toignatz
We have had this risk calculator...trying to click between on a phone 🤪.. there seem to be similarities and differences. So added it here for those who need to take the mixture and show to employers!
healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk...
Looks messy but works.
ignatz• in reply to
Many thanks, Poopadoopy.
I have finally received my letter today with the British Society for Rheumatolgy 'Risk stratification..' enclosed.....but omits the bottom line which is the one *adds the scores* to get a total.. The online one from versusartritis.com does have that additional instruction. Phew.
The information in the flowchart in this topic is exactly the same in a different format.
• in reply toignatz
Yes. I wish I had facilities for a paper copy, that would help me help others who ask. Working on a 6inch phone does impact when you are trying to see flowcharts!
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