Flu vaccine

[Rosina1871]

Interesting comment from one of the doctors in my surgery. Not my usual doctor. I was asking if I should have flu jab. His initial reply was there were some reports stating that the vaccine could be a trigger for PMR . However because I have it , the benefits of having it may outweigh the negative as I am on prednisolone. He has suggested I think about it and is referring the question to my main doctor. Any thoughts?

[Rosina1871]

Thanks for your response. I’m unsure what to do but leaning towards giving it a miss. My symptoms developed a few weeks after my jab last year

[Hidden in reply to Rosina1871]

You already have pmr now. I have continued having the flu jab since pmr and no effects to pmr.... Its got no worse. In the second year I was late and got flu which put me to bed for 3 weeks and not good for weeks. Before pmr I missed jab... Flu.

[Rosina1871 in reply to Hidden]

My doctor did say that I already had PMR so perhaps I should have the jab. I am concerned I may have a flare but this may be totally not the case. Just a Little apprehensive

[Thelmarina in reply to Hidden]

There is also the issue of complications if we suffer flu. Rock and a hard place? A friend without PMR had the jab and felt ill for a couple of weeks, thought it was the jab, then that it had been a virus. Who knows? Life is risk! 😀

[Hidden in reply to Thelmarina]

Yes. We have become risk averse. This discussion we have had on the forum in the last month has surely helped every one make a decision... One way or another. There's enough reading in papers and peoples answers to make a decision for years.

[Hidden in reply to Thelmarina]

And when I HD flu cos of forgetting the jab it took months to recover. It take days sometimes to bring a flare under Conutrol if you blast it with pred for s short time.

[Thelmarina in reply to Hidden]

I’ll have the jab. I’m with grandchildren and their friends so happy to take extra precautions x

[Telian in reply to Rosina1871]

This year I've had the Fluad vaccine with just 24 hours of head cold symptoms following. I have GCA and PMR. I also have a history of bad reactions to meds - I never had the flu jab before getting the AI because of that.

Last year I had about 6 weeks of flu like symptoms following vaccination. I know there was a virulent flu in Australia which was killing people, I didn't want that either. I was nervous after last year but my fears were unfounded. I've had flu only once in my life, many years ago, and never want that again - particularly now I'm older and have an AI.

You have to make your own mind up. Best wishes.

[Hidden]

Can you please ask the doctor for his reference. 😉 I would like to know which study he is citing. There have been discussion about it but they don't know how... What kind of mechanism plus none mention things like pre jab crp/esr and general health. I just looked at 3 papers written over the past few years, that were case studies. 2 of those papers related to Japanese and African American patients. Because of the scandanavian "context" of discussions of genetic causes I'd pmr, I doubt these subjects were ever examined for pmr in the pre-jab period. How many people did you tell your shoulders hurt and I am getting stiff in the early days? Especially when these papers were about people in their mid 80s. If I had a computer I would have a good look round to a phone makes it hard.

To me it doesn't matter. I can't die from pmr (🤞) so even if my pmr was caused by a simple flu jab, so be it. It's better than dying from flu. When my Dr has started whipping ideas like that out I ask for a source. I am waiting for my flu jab to arrive. 🌻

[Rosina1871 in reply to Hidden]

Not my usual doc. All done by ask my gp which was I introduced recently. Will try to find out

[Rosina1871 in reply to Rosina1871]

I have emailed him and asked which report he is referring to

[Hidden in reply to Rosina1871]

Crikey email!!! 😲

[fmkkm in reply to Hidden]

Not for or against vaccines but a quick look for a reference brought me here;

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2...

One other thing, maybe you can’t die from PMR but there are plenty of case studies showing you can easily die of complications with GCA. That reality gives me a little different view of life.

Best,fm.

[Hidden in reply to fmkkm]

Thats why I just said pmr not pmr gca which I often do for both. Untreated pmr can also be a problem re strokes etc. I will use the references but I noted in the conclusion it's say "possibility" if flu jab being a questionable issue. I would normally expect probability. At the end of the day everyone has to make there own decision, especially regarding the adjuvanted over 65 jab. I am afraid I will be using those who do have it as a Guinea pig as there is 7years to my 65th. I do think susieqwe idea about certain people are perhaps having some sort of systematic react due to genetics or something. Sadly uncovering such a possibility takes years and money.

[fmkkm in reply to Hidden]

journalmc.org/index.php/JMC...

[nickm001 in reply to fmkkm]

You have to admire how impartial those researchers are. After explaining that flu vaccine caused PMR in the subject patient, the recommendation is:

"Conclusion-We strongly recommend influenza vaccination for all elderly"

[fmkkm in reply to Hidden]

This article has a bunch of references at the end if anyone really wants to research it.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Happy reading 😎

[Rosina1871 in reply to Hidden]

This my doctors response with a link. It seems you cannot access the full document unless you are a subscriber

“There appear to be a few academic publications about single cases, which you always need to be cautious about. This paper seems to discuss a few more cases.....

journals.sagepub.com/doi/ab... It is behind a paywall and I am not sure of the academic status of the publication. I cannot see any recommendation to change vaccination advice on the basis of these no doubt rare cases where there may or may not be a link with the vaccine. Correlation is not causation of course.”

[Hidden in reply to Rosina1871]

Thank you. I will give it a read. 🌻

[Rosina1871 in reply to Hidden]

There’s very little to read unless you subscribe unfortunately. Disappointimg

[Hidden in reply to Rosina1871]

Sometimes I can find a version that is accessible from the details and where it is cited. If so will pm you.

[Rosina1871 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Hidden]

pdfs.semanticscholar.org/8c...

Not read it yet - tell me if it is worth it ...

[Rosina1871 in reply to PMRpro]

Thank you

[Hidden]

If you think it happened because of a jab then you need to try and do research for your own benefit too and provide evidence. A slow growing illness sounds like my development of pmr. The women in tbe study had other health issues as well. Perhaps start collecting evidence for and against. It's impossible to say x+y=z. People already have pmr and gca on this site. Because of pred they are immune suppressed. So maybe need the jab more. Flare can be controlled with pred. But don't forget stress g can bring on a flare.

I could equally blame my central heating for pmr... A winter in the cold....but I have no clear evidence of that. It may be a flu jab is the last straw to the immune system. I know I had lots of different stressors over the previous few weeks including too much travelling, money worries, fathers death and no heating or hot water for 3 months mid winter.

You can teach yourself to do a meta analysis or read across geneticc, endocrinogy and rheumatology. Of course a medical dictionary helps!!!

[Hidden]

It is hard to negotiate it just because big pharma and medicine hold all the cards.

I have always had a big reaction to insect bites and life long allergy to elastoplast and nickel. My friend had a fall recently and had to take codiene..... Her feet swelled up. The nurse practioner came to see her and looked at her records and 10 or more years ago a blood test showed some thin g weird with an enzyme and a warning that opioid might call problems. But she has psoriasis and I believe flares of psoriatic arthritis. One happened in Portugal and tramadol. Prescribed which really knocked her up.

My sister has mastocytosis so is always up and down too. I always jokingly say I think it's chernobyl. I can't quite remember so many people having auto immune disease but I checked at the "reported" data and it doesn't support me looking further just online.

Keep an eye out for things like clinical trial perhaps. There might be some ideas of potential issues you could explore. Believe me I knew nothing about anything... Still don't know much but I am starting to understand the lingo. 🤔

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Baileyw06]

I had the over 65 shot on Monday and had no side effects except a sore arm for a day

[Grants148]

I w as very ill after a flu jab four years ago pre PMR,like you it was a combination of things building up over about a month. I had never felt so ill and l refuse the jab now .Fortunately most people are OK with it and l had been having the jab for ten years before the bad reaction. There was obviously something in that one that did not agree with me !

[Hidden]

Well to be honest you don't even need to discuss it with your Dr if you feel it is impacting your health. And if you have made your mind up.

My. Mum's mum had pernicious anemia from her 30s to.... 95yrs. But I always think most families have an illness or two running through them.

[Hidden]

It's good so. They don't argue sour grapes. Nite'all

tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OGC....

[Hidden]

Dear Rosina1871, I am 65 and have always been on the "anti" side of the flu vaccine fence. I just never trusted them, for whatever reason... After being diagnosed with GCA & PMR in late 2017, my opinion about a lot of things started to change. When flu season approached in 2018, I came to this forum, just like you; the overwhelming response was "Get the vaccination!" I very reluctantly did, and I'm happy to say I had NO ill effects what so ever! No flare. No muscle aches. No headache, fever or shivering. I was surprised, as even the injection site didn't hurt! I will be getting it again this year! You have to do what your heart and your head tell you is right for you... Hope for the best, and prepare for the worst. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[HJC321]

I heard years ago that any vaccination can trigger another autoimmune illness and I would not risk it.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to HJC321]

But so can the illness the vaccine is to protect you from. There is no simple answer and a balance of probabilities.

[nickm001]

Drug companies don't have an incentive to investigate. They are protected by government from responsibility of any damage done by vaccines ( at least in US that is the case). US government pays out 100's of million per year to people that suffered damage from vaccines and yet they are considered "safe". There should be away to test one's sensitivity to ingredient BEFORE the damage is done. Or one can opt to avoid the risk and take chances with flu infection using common sense prevention methods.

[Christine2307]

I had the same last year but my own Doctor came back and say YES definitely have it and I had no side effects at all

[Awaligolf]

I had flu vaccine last year with no I'll effect, apparently it is a 'dead vaccine and my reduced resistance to infection (due to steroids) is irrelevant, however a 'live' vaccine (e.g shingles) must be avoided. I will be getting the flu vaccine for this year shortly

[Seabyrd]

I come from a family with great medical background and they said NEVER get a flu shot that possible side effects can be worse than the Flu for some people.. just take normal precautions like vitamins... healthy diet.. hand washing.. etc... common sense.!! My rheumy also said no !!

[Seabyrd]

I am certainly no expert.. but my rheumy also told me she wasn't taking it this year either and that was last year.. she said "we'll see how that goes" and I know it went well... she didn't even mention it to me this year this year. I have PMR... GCA... RA and basically no immune system but I am very very careful.. use sani wipes everywhere I go.. never use restrooms away from home unless its an emergency wash hands 100 times a day it seems.. just very careful. I live in a small town which makes it much easier when always close to home.... my medically based family live in Australia and I live in Texas. I am beyond blessed to have a great rheumy that I can always see the day I call if I need to..I am now down to 5 mg prednisone a day and taking Actemra infusions monthly which seems to be helping.

[Seabyrd]

I wish you well... be sure to take all the sanitary precautions.. and try to stay away from sick people which can be difficult. Everyone is different..I am NOT giving anyone advice just voicing my personal opinion..I am not qualified to tell anyone what to do.. this is just my personal experience. I wish everyone the very best health regardless of what you do or don't take...we are all suffering similar illnesses but our bodies all react differently.. It would be wonderful if things worked the same for everyone but they just don't. My best wishes to you and everyone else out there suffering !! Cheers from Texas.

[Purplecrow]

I have had true Influenza, and afterward vowed to take any precautions available to avoid getting it again. It is true that the flu shot does not prevent all possible viruses, but its better than nothing!

In this discussion, I see no need to debate or argue pro or con regarding the flu jab. Take it or leave it, and good luck to you.

Kind regards, Jerri

PMR diagnosed 2013.