Collagen

[Robinsnest72]

Has anyone ever heard of taking a collagen supplement to help PMR. Talking to someone today who has an autoimmune disorder but they have not figured out exactly what it is. Her daughter also has an autoimmune thyroid she said. They are both taking collagen in powder form and are feeling better.

[PMRpro Ambassador]

I can't think of any reason why collagen would help with PMR. Except hope ...

But I am always happy to proved wrong!

[nickm001 in reply to PMRpro]

it does not help PMR directly, but helps with connecting tissue in joints, I read somewhere. Since our tendons and ligaments become weak from PMR, it may help with recovery/healing.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to nickm001]

I don't think tendons and ligaments are affected by PMR - and neither does Harvard Medical:

"On its own, PMR does not produce muscle weakness or restricted joint motion. But if untreated, pain and stiffness limit a patient's activity to the extent that muscles become wasted and weak, and joints become stiff from simple disuse."

A good diet with adequate good quality protein is going to be beneficial in far more ways than (probably) poor quality proteins in supplements. By poor quality I mean the type not that they are sweepings off the floor!

This mostly says what I would say but saves me writing it myself:

climbingnutrition.com/newsb...

Apart from anything else, you have to digest the sources whether expensive supplements or a decent bit of salmon (or whatever). Collagen DOES benefit the formation of human tissue, the amino acids are essential for the process. But you do need the right ones (in high quality protein) and there is a no guarantee that once they have been disassembled in the gut to be absorbed, they will arrive at the place you particularly want them to get.

[nickm001 in reply to PMRpro]

I was not talking about supplements, but real food that has Collagen, sorry for misunderstanding. I am the last person to support/push supplements. To me if you think you need supplements, then something is not right with diet you consume.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to nickm001]

Absolutely!!!!

[Noosat in reply to PMRpro]

In addition exercise like gentle yoga helps stretch the ligaments, muscles and also strengthen them.

[Cycleman in reply to PMRpro]

PMR doesn’t affect muscle or tendons but I beieve Prednisolone does ( according to my GP)

I have been taking Pred for over 3 years ( currently on 3 mg) and my muscle tone has definitely deteriorated. Also i have a deep tear in my RH shoulder tendon and tendonopathy in the LH. A combination, I suspect, of manual labour and Pred.

Happy to be enlightened.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Cycleman]

Yes, it may do - although most of the literature discusses intraarticular steroid injections which definitely cause problems. Oral corticosteroids can lead to decreased wound strength, interfering with the healing process. But in tendons it depends on the stage of healing when steroids are present after inflammation.

nature.com/articles/s41598-...

Tendons/synovium and ligaments are inflamed in PMR - so that maybe where it has its effect.

I, myself, had a totally torn collateral ligament some years ago, after about 3 years of oral steroids. It was treated conservatively with a knee brace for about 4 weeks at 30 degrees of bend and a further 4 weeks at a higher amount of bend. It healed perfectly and has been fine since despite continuing oral steroids. So it does seem to depends on a lot of factors.

[Hidden]

As a veggie of 30yrs I will not be participating even if it helps..,,,,,, I wanted to put laughing face but lost my emojis. My phone being silly.

naturalforce.com/blogs/nutr...

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Hidden]

colon close bracket with no space.

Not as good as yours but better than nothing ...

[Hidden in reply to PMRpro]

Given my current predicament I had to read this twice....

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Hidden]

That did occur to me as I typed it ...

[pigeonCl-HU in reply to Hidden]

Yes, it comes from animals, not for me either.

pigeon.

[HeronNS]

Check the source of the collagen. I wouldn't use anything like that unless I knew the source was a CJD free country.

[Blearyeyed]

There are trials being done with specific types of Marine and Bovine Collagen in combination with a complex multinutrient cocktail , both taken orally and intravenously , for various types of Connective Tissue Disorders that are looking like a promising way forward in helping to manage diseases like Ehlers Danlos Syndrome , MCTD and Crohn's.

People with these conditions are sometimes prescribed specific Collagens as part of their treatment to restore or retain tissue from regular damage from tendon , ligament and muscle tears and joint subluxations.

Some other Autoimmune Diseases with a high incidence of Skin reactions are also considering pilots in Nutrient based Therapies as way of improving the speed of tissue healing.

The trials and treatments are in early days for these conditions but as yet as far as I know it isn't being considered as a part of PMR/ GCA or Arthritis treatment . It's already considered quite radical by Connective Tissue Specialists.

I with my other conditions may be willing to try Collagen but would want to try it using the ones recommended by the Researchers or under meducal trial supervision in the hope that it could be effective.

There are people with Connective and Skin issues in the US that spend alot of money monthly trying the orals version of these therapies themselves . The cost does run into 100's of $/£ ( in fact the whole cocktail was putting people back between $400/$600 per month). This sum is alot for something that is just a part of overall disease management and not a "cure"!

The use of Collagen supplements , if the right sort , at the right doseage , might help improve skin quality and partially slow the progression of loss of muscle mass and the elasticity of the tendons and ligaments , but it would need appropriate personal research and the use of the right products . It's benefit to PMR/ GCA sufferers may only be in a slight reduction in the impact of side effects of using steroids rather than improving the inflammation , Autoimmune response or joint health while suffering from the Syndromes.

In other words , unless you have deep pockets and find use of Collagen was beneficial to your skin and muscle health in the past , you could just end up paying to create some very expensive wee!

Just like with any supplement that can work for one individual , or type of Disease , but not for others, if it doesn't produce any obvious improvement to your condition over a month , it probably isn't worth the money.

[Robinsnest72 in reply to Blearyeyed]

This was an excellent write up and I was just inquiring. Sometimes we are so desperate we are willing to try many different things. I had started to take turmeric and now I find it can effect your blood pressure. The lady taking the Collegen is getting it from the Health Food Store.

[Blearyeyed in reply to Robinsnest72]

Yes , I do take turmeric for my gastric issues rather than joint inflammation , but we do usually advise people with certain health issues like blood pressure or on certain medications that they need to check if it is right to use when we recommend any supplements.

Sometimes , we don't just try to find new or natural self help ways not just because we are desperate , but because it's good to use self help with diet , lifestyle , exercise or nutrients to help make our side effects easier or improve our recovery .

It's sensible to combine the right recommended self help with our medical treatment so asking questions about things like this is a good thing to do .

In the beginning we all had questions and did the research just like you.

The answers you get help others as well as you too.

Take care , and keep up the positive mindset in improving how you feel x

[Hidden in reply to Blearyeyed]

Thanks bee. I won't take it but I love new information even if related to other conditions...you never know when you might need it!

[Blearyeyed in reply to Hidden]

You are a vegetarian , so taking extra collagen that will be processed in a form that will benefit the body becomes very difficult.

It is one of the reasons that a vegan diet is not sustainable or problematic when you have a Chronic Health disorder involving Tissue Damage or Steroid use.

Vitamin A and Protein sources are processed into more useable forms at higher quantities from animal or marine foods then through vegetables , nuts and pulses.

If you can at least use eggs and lactofree dairy products you can help improve your extra need for Vitamin A ( retinol) and Collagen from natural means as a vegetarian.

Increasing protein foods and foods high in retinol A , and the vitamin C needed to help process them is something we can all do to improve skin , hair and muscle loss side effects , rather than just trying to add in an extra supplement.

I would definitely miss my bone broth if I was still a veggie!

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Blearyeyed]

My friend's daughter was veggie first, then vegan and finally had to return to animal protein for health reasons.

[Hidden in reply to Blearyeyed]

I have been trying the lactose free stuff which seems ok so far. I may just add a veggie multi-vitamin until I get an understanding of what I can tolerate easily. I do get a good amount of vitC in my diet usually, and have my 5 to 7 a day ordinarily, so hopefully its helping my body make the most of anything that requires it's help. I will never go back to eating animals I'm afraid.

[Blearyeyed in reply to Hidden]

No I wouldn't suggest you did , as a vegetarian you can do alot to help your condition and I'm sure after all these years you are used to doing that sort of food juggling .

I just understand how hard it is for you to do the juggling .

My friends daughter has had to give up being a vegan recently because she has also got EDS , and no matter how much research I did to try and help her stay that way despite calls from Family and Doctors for her to eat meat , I finally had to surrender and say , no need to be a carnivore but you need to be a vegetarian .

It's another of those annoying and upsetting extra hits from a Chronic Condition , sometimes it takes away our personal choices on what we eat as well as what we do.

[Hidden in reply to Blearyeyed]

Yes. I am used to various restrictions but it doesn't get easier when another food group is jettisoned. It's finding that line where the pleasure isn't worth the pain.

I am having proper food tonight. Some veggie stir fry, adding black kale and spinach from the garden, with a tahini, lime and sesame oil dressing. So am looking forward to that. If I can eat something like that everyday with legumes and pulses sometimes that would be ok. But for tonight it's just the veg!

[Blearyeyed in reply to Hidden]

Sounds good .

I completely empathise with your situation.

With the gastric issues I have it is such a fine balancing act on what foods to eat and what portions to have that making sure you still get pleasure from eating rather than feeling like it's a chore is very difficult.

And then if you end up getting an infection , or bacteria/ fungal overload increasing the bloating and Diarrhea or Constipation suddenly it's even more restrictions.

By the time I have considered all the foods I might need to avoid in a Flare up it feels like I met get more enjoyment sucking on a damp tissue!!

And I don't even have to factor in Diabetes!

Then the final blow !

To eat the right things that benefit the most you need to cook it yourself from good ingredients , and some of these things take a lot of time and prep in the kitchen.

Not great if your having one of those days when putting the kettle on can feel like hard work.

I , at least have people here to help , but that can sometimes mean you don't eat what's best for you either . Their cooking skills or need to get on with other things mean I can't ask them to make what is better , but what they can manage.

We get there in the end though xxx

[Galloping]

I've been taking collegen powder for about eighteen months, long before my recent diagnosis of PMR. I take it for my skin, hair and nails.

Initially I used a bovine product from organic, grass fed cattle but recently switched to marine collegen as I eat fish but not beef.

Since being on Prednisilone I do get the bruising but it clears up in a couple of days. I have no hair loss and my nails, since taking collegen are stronger and no longer have ridges.

I used to have crepey skin on my arms but that has improved dramatically, whether due to the collegen, or the nightly mousturising I don't know.

My dentist has noted that my gums are healthier too.

All in all I think I have benefitted from taking collegen, it does seem to help with the issues I originally started it for.

I would add that I take it alongside vit C as that promotes collegen production in the body.

If you're interested in trying it, do the research and buy a good quality product.

[Kath567]

I am struggling with ulcerative colitis after coming off prednisone, it caused a flare up. My hair is awful. I think bone broth would be equally beneficial and was told in the health food store just to drink bone broth and forget collagen supplements. I too am desperate. Going to try the broth every day to see if it helps.

[Suedeshayes]

I don’t know if Pmr affects tendons, but the steroids do!! Bearing that in mind, collagen might help.