Hi everyone. Just wondering if anyone out there has ever read or heard about a possible link with root canal treatments and PMR? My son has messaged me to say there has been some research into whether having a root canal is the cause of chronic illnesses. There is a documentary on Netflix about it, called Root Cause. I've started to watch it. Some dentists are even recommending having root canal teeth pulled out. It is making me seriously consider if there is a link; I had a root canal in June and my symptoms showed up a couple of months later, with a diagnosis in September. Opinions and knowledge would be welcome.
Root canal link to PMR? : Hi everyone. Just... - PMRGCAuk
Root canal link to PMR?
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Lonsdalelass
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No I am not aware of this link. I had the treatment since diagnosis though.
OK, thanks for your prompt response. Maybe others may have some info. X
And being of a very sceptical nature:
sciencebasedmedicine.org/pu...
Thank you. It annoys the hell out of me that there are people around who make other alternative health practitioners look bad. Xxxx. Great link PMRpro xxx
O that was a very informative article dear PMRpro as you so often give to us. Yesterday was in a Dutch newspaper a story about the risk of not taking good care of teeth, paradontitis can contribute to developing Alzheimer. It is still a small study and only found in mice, and mice are not men. You must be glad to never have needed an root canal treatment.
I had a root canal years and years ago. But I still had low level tooth pain and was sent to a specialist. Turned out the tooth was cracked and there had been a low level infection simmering away. So the tooth was extracted, very quickly and painlessly as it only had a single root! I now have a winsome gap in the back of my mouth, figured as no one can see it, why bother replacing. I have all my wisdom teeth, so that helps.
Hi Heron, I could live with a gap in my mouth on a place where no one sees it. In the early fifties there was this very poor attention for the dental care so shortly after ww2 in Holland and even had no toothbrush at all. The dentist sent me away. And with my first self earned money I had my teeth restored. So lots of crowns are 50 years old. I say thanks to all the medical care being available nowadays.
I had a lot of trouble with my first teeth, having a couple of extractions, which of course affected alignment of the adult teeth. But because I wouldn't use Colgate toothpaste I was given something called Punch and Judy, which apparently contained sugar! Plus when I was living with my aunt, a dentist no less, when I was 4-6, I was given what I thought was warm sweet milk at bedtime - I hated it but had to drink it and I guess it was Horlicks. So my baby teeth didn't have a chance. But once fluoride was put into our toothpaste and drinking water when I was about twelve all of a sudden I stopped getting cavities in any of my teeth. My current dentist is amazed at the old fillings, says they have lasted far longer than could ever be expected, which remark surprised me because I thought fillings were for life. Of course that means I have a mouthful of mercury amalgam which isn't good but you won't catch me putting myself through having them replaced.
poor you, Horlick's came as food supplement for infants an invalids. ( had to look it up on Wikipedia )
I did like Ovaltine, however. 😀
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I imagine the stress of a root canal treatment could well be a final straw. Not something I have ever had to consider. Still developed PMR though!!!
You could be right! Yes, unfortunately, I am sure PMR will strike for some with or without having had a root canal, but this documentary has really had me thinking.
I can assure you that with an endo dontist who knows what they are doing there is no stress. I fell comfortably asleep xxx
Ditto -replace PMR with GCA!
I had to have 4 root canals on one side... dentist said probably result of being clunked by a ball in the face when I was younger... bizarre. But they are NOT like kidney stones etc. definitely survivable..all numbed up.. just uncomfortable. floss floss floss everyone!!!!
I have read many articles about how root canals are not good for our health in the long run.
Haven't read anything connecting it to pmr, but It is an interesting thought. I have had many root canals and I have two auto immune diseases.
Sorry to hear that. Yes, I'm beginning to wish I hadn't had my root canal in June, if it means I may not have PMR now, if there is a link.
I had a root canal in aug. 2014 , and 2 month after I got pmr and gca. I´m sure there is a link.
Please know that a proper root canal treatment will remove harmful bacteria from your bone!! Xxxx
I think that if you do get a good root canal done, you're lucky! From what I've read and seen, most can trap bacteria in the bone.
I have developed PMR a year after my root canal.
Hi Daisy1923, I am still of the opinion that there is a link between having a bad root canal and getting PMR, even though it has been a good while since I first posted about this. Of course, it has never been proved as there is just not enough evidence for it, but personally I still believe it. Added to that, two weeks ago I asked my dentist to remove the tooth next to the bad root canal (that I had extracted last year) as this tooth was also suspect and I know that bacteria can spread to neighbouring teeth, and I actually feel much better in myself whilst still tapering down to 0.5mg. So I am keeping my fingers crossed that this improvement continues, and this just serves to confirm my suspicions.
Hmm, I’ve had a root canal many years before GCA and it lead to chronic infection that worked its way silently to my jaw bone. I think it was bad because I think I was not in a fit state to have it done rather than it caused me to be in a bad state. I think it is more complicated than we can know in my opinion and I go for the straw that break the camel’s back idea as well. There are so many other events in my life that would quietly add a number like a bingo card, until Bingo! I also think the way I lead my life like Superwoman didn’t help. I think chemo introduced my immune system to my blood vessels, but really none of it matters; I am where I am and being forced to live differently now has brought many benefits along with the crap.
I agree with you. The best thing is to accept this new life and get on with it. I have had a number of positive things come from this and for that I am grateful.
Thank you Linny 3.
Thank you for your reply.
I can find out conclusively for you. One of the top endo dontists in the world is a personal friend of mine. I will find out for you xxxx
In the uk, I had five root canals done under the nhs. I had trainee dentists do them. I knew no better so I allowed it. On arrival in Australia I saw a top private dentist who nearly fainted at my x rays. I had bits of broken off root canal drills embedded in my jaw. Other sites had not been filled adequately and there were pools of bacteria. It took years of corrective treatment to fix. Maybe BAD or inadequate root canal treatment makes one ill. I will find out. Xxxx
Thank you Daisychain, it sounds quite awful! The lesson to learn here is, make sure you get a good dentist! Or, not have a root canal, but get the tooth out! X
I know learners have to start somewhere but they should not be allowed to work on a live human being until they know what they're doing, and even then only under close supervision.
Great topic!
I've been a little bit scared to watch the Netflix doc as I've had so many root canals over the last decade.
This time last year, I had a tooth removed at the back. It was a huge tooth and a traumatic extraction but that wasn't the end of it.
It turned into what is called a 'dry socket', and effectively osteomyelitis of the bone. It was hell on earth for a month.
Shortly after, I developed unexplained neurological issues which I still have, and then a few months later, PMR symptoms.
I think there is only so much our nervous system can take!
Hey Mic67, this is exactly what happened to me!!! About two years ago. How uncanny! That awful dry socket was pain I'd never had before, and wouldn't want again!! I'm put off having any more extractions, but am now wondering if I should be brave and have my root canal tooth out.
Oh Lonsdalelass you are the first person I've met to have had this. I have a high pain threshold but this was relentless and almost unbelievable! It's put me off too, I havent even been able to go for my hygenist appointments since!
Ok, I am going to watch the doc!
OK, we'll I've been brave and had treatment since, including my root canal. But I did change my dentist to a very experienced and private one. However, at the time of my dry socket, I tracked down my very first excellent private dentist, in floods of tears I was, begging her to help. Sadly, she's retired now I think, but I'm going to check as I am pretty sure she would know something about this post. I will watch the rest of the doc first. God luck with your viewing.
I had a superb one done in Paris, by the Prof. That was 1980. It is still in an excellent state.. Following, not too long ago, two. By a well thought of consulting dentist, Australian. Not good. One, lower molar, sheared off, still in tatters, and the other, an upper molar, is sensitive to the touch. Dentists in France ....Hmmmmm, plus, very expensive. Cannot afford to go to England for pvt dental care, so will remain as they are. Ones in front are OK. Looks like I don't have a problem...Ho-Hum 
Interesting, my root canal, also upper molar, is sensitive when I tap it or floss between it...... It shouldn't should it? Root canal makes the tooth dead. My dentist took xrays last time I was in and nothing showed up. However, I've since learned the 2D xrays won't necessarily show the problem, especially if it's a cavitation that's there's, I would need a 3D one. Looks like I'm going to be back at my original excellent dentist, if she's still working.
Hi, I always thought that taking the nerve out left the tooth with no feeling, not the root. I’m terrified of the dentist, but get regular check ups.
That's right.
No, it should not be sensitive. Sounds like a cavitation problem - same as myself. Need a holistic dentist who has a good track record. Sigh.
Are French dentists any more expensive than UK private ones? Here is regarded as pretty pricey and many people take holidays in the former eat bloc for major dental work as their reputation is said to be way ahead of most of Europe but the work I;ve had done here was similar to the UK, not even that much more for a cermaic crown or inlay than the UK would have been.
I had an estimate for some dental work, an oblique crack / split in the lower first molar : £1,500 (gulp) As it is stable, it can stay as is, and hope it lasts me ! The other lower molar that sheared off, would have to dig it out, seems stable, can't be seen, can stay as. A sharp edge next to it, filed down, E.45/- Dental work in the UK, including the sheared off crown over a root canal, cost me over £3,000 (gulp). Had an estimate for one root canal here, expert in cavitation work (my problem) E.2,000. Fergit it.
In spite of top-up mutual insurance, very little is covered for dental work - nor for ophthalmology !
Would like to consult with the holistic dental practice in Poole, Dorset, but too expensive, the funds aint there.
Plus, of course, to factor in travel and hotel expenses...then it all gets very silly. Ho-Hum.
No dental stuff is covered here at all. Never looked to see if there is other insurance - i'm lucky, rarely have problems but I do know the filling in one broken tooth that has been perfectly stable is not as good as it was...
At first our workplace health insurance had dental as an option which was fine as we both had good teeth, and the kids were covered by public medicare. But then it became compulsory, I think to keep costs down with much greater number of contributors. And over the years that has turned out to be a good thing. More problems as we age, including hubby breaking a couple of teeth, and me needing that root canal and subsequent extraction a few years ago. Care for that tooth had involved appointments with two different specialists as well. It also helped cover tooth straightening for youngest child when he was in his late teens. Would have cost a fortune.
Just watched it! Obvs conventional dentists will refute every word but it confirmed almost everything I have thought for some time. Quite shocking.
Hi there,
It’s possible a chronic infection from the tooth could contribute to autoimmunity but other things factor in. Here is a good explanation I think.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=stwo0...
Thanks for this. I always felt Omeprazole caused my PMR but it didn't quite fit as I have taken it in the past without this happening. From watching this video I can now see that 1) I have a genetic marker - the wood
2) I had an inordinate amount of stress and upset during the previous year - the kerosene
3) Omeprazole could have been the spark that set the whole thing off.
I was seriously disabled with pain and stiffness in both my shoulders and hips 2 weeks after starting Omeprazole. What do you think?
An interesting clip, thanks for posting it.
I too had a root canal in July and came down wth the worst of symptoms in November. I saw the Netflix documentary and considering going for a ceramic Implant. I started with 20 mg of prednisone and can’t get any lower than 3mg with out mild flare ups. Implants are a big undertaking so I may try another year on prednisone.
I think Any stress or injury to the body has a link to PMR.
Your body will have naturally responded to the root canal treatment with inflammation. I suppose it is possible that in your case your body forgot to turn it off and your immune system carried on producing inflammation resulting in PMR. But that doesn't mean that root canal treatment causes PMR.
When in my mid twenties all my teeth started breaking down. I had had two babies and two late miscarriages so health was poor. Best suggestion was to have them all out. I was so ill afterwards as I had all twenty eight out and false ones in at one appointment!!!!!!! Yes I know now that I ought to have sought better advice but I was exhausted and OH was working seven day weeks to keep our heads above water.
I have not let it bother me as I have family who have real life changing problems.
A brilliant day here in Yorkshire, so going out for a very short walk. 🤗 🌞
I had a root canal a few month prior to diagnosis, and also back surgery. Why is root canal suspected? How would pulling the tooth help?
Have a look at the documentary.
I don’t have access to Netflix. I wouldn’t have asked if I did.
Some dentists will now advise having root canal teeth pulled.
This is because there is a new school of thought in science that root canals are bad for you because they trap bacteria in the bone and the nerves in the body run through the jaw bone. They have been linked to causing chronic illnesses.
Thanks.
I had the same problem, an extra canal that was missed and an abscess set in. Been a problem ever since - one blasted tooth has cost me a heap. Crown sheared, cavitation...Ho-Hum. Is lying low, is v. quiet at the moment, but...
I think of course it could have come on after root canal. Stressful! I suspect PMR comes when the immune system is overloaded and there you have it.. (what is it you say, bob's your uncle? ) Anyway. I have a friend who had hip replacement then Mohs surgery 5 weeks later and got PMR .. I had car/bike accident cracked ribs then stomach virus 2 weeks later. and got PMR.
I am pretty sure that the onset of my PMR was linked to a couple of major amalgam fillings (not root canals) I had had about 2 months prior to the start of the gradually build up of what was to becaome a diagnisis of PMR. Amalgam is about 50% mercury which, of course, is highly toxic and implimented in many health problems - the mercury continues to leech out into the body, regardless of how old the fillings are. Remember the character of the Mad Hatter? He was so named because the processes of hat making involved the use of mercury which had an adverse effect on the craftsmen. Of course no one in the medical profession is going to endorse this idea because it would open the flood gates to a great many law suits. Also Nickel forms a part of the stainless steel of which the dental tools are made and that is also toxic to humans.
This link may interest you -
iaomt.org/resources/dental-...
Food for thought isn't it?
I had root canal treatment about 25 years ago on an upper back tooth. Two weeks ago it broke off at gum level. I am having it extracted in three weeks time. After reading these articles, I am now expecting my PMR to disappear after this extraction!!!!! Will let you know.
Let us know how that extraction goes, and how it affects your dose of pred. I'm working through my options....... Slowly arriving to the conclusion I will be changing my dentist in order to seek a 3d scan.
I’ve also recently watched “Root Cause” on Netflix out of interest (I’ve never had a root canal). Interesting, as is the article PMRpro shared.
A few nights I watched a number of documentaries about food, nutrition and diet with my daughter who is a nutritionist. Once again, conflicting information!
I do take in a lot of info, but I view such programs with a critical eye. It can be confusing to decipher what is truth and of value, and what is not. Seems to be some truth contained in the overall films/articles, enough to make me sit up and take notice. I’d almost like to put the “experts” holding opposite opinions in a room and fire questions at them and watch them defend their position.
In the end I make what I feel is the best decision for me, and sometimes, without lived experience (such as DC has had with her dental work in different countries), I feel like it’s a shot in the dark.
Of note, I’ve always been somewhat afraid of the dentist and this combined with my hubby’s description of his root canal, makes me think if faced with such a decision, they’d have to put me asleep and extract it.
Thanks, as always, for bringing this info foreword!
Prior to PMR I had 2 long time root canals get infected and had to be pulled. I always thought this was a cause for my immune system to go haywire.
Just a quick question, did you have to increase your pred after extraction?
And how long did it take you to taper back to 10mg from 25mg?
I have now today booked a 3D scan with my previous very experienced dentist, so am pleased. Have to wait until April though as she only works one day per week. I'm just glad she hasn't retired yet.
Let us know how it goes - Take care.
Thanks Ruadh, will do. Take care too. I'm feeling positive, in a good head-space at the moment. I'm not going to assume this is necessarily the cause of my symptoms and PMR, but if its a step forward to better health I say go for it. Even though I'd be worried sick about another extraction after my last one and awful dry socket, my gut feeling is to just get it out. Even if the scan shows nothing untoward, I know there's something not right with this root canal as it shouldn't be sensitive. Sorry, seem to be rambling a bit.
Yes. It should not be sensitive - best to get it looked at by a first rate dentist. An you aint rambling !
👍 😘
I'm reading these posts with great interest. Over the years, I've had many root canals with no problems. Two or three years ago, my dentist detected what looked like some infection in one of the root canals. Since there was no pain due to no nerves in the tooth, I put off doing anything about it (no dental insurance since retirement). I finally was sent to an endodontist to see if he could repair the tooth and save the root canal. That procedure didn't work. I waited awhile longer then decided to have the tooth pulled and a dental implant. Several weeks after the procedure, I started having symptoms of PMR. I'm a major skeptic when it comes to misinformation in documentaries like "Root Cause". But I can't help but wonder if there is a connection in my case...maybe in delaying treatment.
I know, it gets you thinking. Who really knows? That is the issue, but we can only do what we think is right for us.
Hi there Lonsdalelass - How goes the sensitive tooth ? Have you seen yr dentist yet, April appointment, yes ? Hope you are able to sort. Take care -
Hi Ruadh, great to hear again from you. Yes, I've been to see my very good original dentist, upshot is she's going to take out the root canal tooth. I didn't bother with the scan after all, as I'd made up my mind whatever it showed the tooth would be coming out anyway. So I'm going back early May. Bit apprehensive about having it out, but I've got a lot of faith in my dentist and know she will do all she can to avoid me getting a dry socket. I've put a post out about increasing the pred, or not, and I've had lots of good advice and tips so feel less worried on that front. Thanks for taking the time to get back in touch. Take care.
I am very new to this site, first post. My condition started in September and this followed some major dentistry in July August, I considered that this may have been the trigger through trauma
Hello Mondelo, and welcome to this great forum. Yes, it does make you think about the possible causes of our PMR. Like you, the timing for me was also fitting with getting my first symptoms, as my root canal was in the June and it was the end of Aug when I bacame ill. The documentary on Netflix 'Root Cause' (since been removed) was enlightening. Nothing has definitely been proved, so we are left wondering if a bad root canal could be the cause. I personally think it had a lot to do with mine, but I'll never know. I've come to accept it is what it is, and have had the offending tooth since removed, but don't spend any more time trying to solve the reason why. It can make us more stressed, and that's what we don't need. However, I would not have another root canal, for sure.
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