can you have PA with normal CBC?

[Atrr]

hey everyone

Age 30 m

My b12 level was 69pg/ml.

I am on my 7 th injection of methyl 500mcg.

My cbc is normal my doctor said you cant have PA with normal bloodwork.

Is there any chance that i can have PA ?

Thank you

[Rexz]

Yes, you can have PA and B12 def with normal blood count. Specifically MCV.

Roughly 30 to 40% of those with "autoimmune" PA do have normal blood count and never have the tell tale megaloblastic anemia. Although doctors test for parietal cell and Intrinsic factor antibodies a negative result for these tests does not rule out PA. The only 100% sure way to confirm PA is through endoscopy/gastroscopy biopsies of upper gastric corpus and fundus oxyntic mucosa and pathologist confirming damage to Parietal Cells.

Just a note: PA is a late stage manifestation of Autoimmune Gastritis (AIG), a decades long process to reach B12d.

[Atrr in reply to Rexz]

My doctor think these levels can not cause symptoms and will nkt prescribe more injection

[Rexz in reply to Atrr]

Your CBC blood work... Was that normal at the time of your B12 def of 69. That is a woefully low B12.

The reason I ask is, of course, B12 injections will normalize red blood counts.

The other causes of B12d are gastric surgery, being vegan. If you are none of these you should ask, ask, ask, what caused your deficiency. An "I think" is not good enough since he is making decisions on your very personal healthcare. Don't give up until you get an answer from him/her.

You may want to consider another doctor.

[Atrr in reply to Rexz]

yes i am vegan and from india too.

Here b12 and d is very common defeciency.

And yes my blood work was normal at the that time.

[Rexz]

It's quite possible... Note that I'm not a doctor, that an oral supplementation of B12 will work just fine.

You're right in India B12d is not uncommon do to a vegan diet.

Try oral and monitor. PA/AIG is an autoimmune condition preventing you from absorbing B12. Being a vegan you "most likely" don't have a malabsorption issue. B12d symptoms take quite some time, months, to heal. Especially if you were at 69 pg/ml.

[Atrr in reply to Rexz]

Sorry last question

What was your b12 level?

[Rexz in reply to Atrr]

My B12 was at 70. I also had megaloblastic anemia.

[traveltime]

thing is, PA moves some CBC values in one direction, but at the same time other vitamin, thyroid and other stuff can move it in the other direction, so you could have a few things that cancel each other out. A load of my tests come back slap bang in the middle, with no definitive results, but my PA/need to B12 EOD is very very real.

[Sleepybunny]

Hi,

A few links that you might find useful.

Pernicious Anaemia Society

Based in Wales, UK. Has overseas members.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

PAS membership is separate to membership of this forum.

You do not need a PA diagnosis to join PAS.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

PAS have support groups in UK, USA, Sweden and Australia - New Zealand.

They are keen to hear from people wanting to set up new groups.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

Most groups meet online.

PAS website has lots of useful leaflets. Some PAS members print them out for their doctors.

Some of the info may be specific to UK

pernicious-anaemia-society....

Other B12 websites

B12info.com

b12info.com/

Run by a UK campaigner on B12 deficiency issues. Has lots of useful info.

B12d.org ( a UK charity)

Organises interesting online talks.

b12d.org/event/

The B12 Society ( a UK charity)

Has useful lists of causes and symptoms.

theb12society.com/

Stichting B12 Tekort (Dutch B12 website with English articles)

stichtingb12tekort.nl/english/

B12 Awareness (US website)

b12awareness.org/

Set up by Sally Pacholok, US campaigner on B12 deficiency issues.

She has some online articles/videos about B12 deficiency

Films and videos about PA and B12 deficiency

b12info.com/films/

pernicious-anaemia-society....

Two B12 books I found useful

"What You Need to Know about Pernicious Anaemia and Vitamin B12 Deficiency"

By Martyn Hooper, founder of Pernicious Anaemia society.

"Could it Be B12?" by Sally Pacholok and J.J Stuart (US authors)

Many forum members have met health professionals who lack understanding of B12 deficiency.

Help for doctors

Maybe you could point some of these out to your doctors.

1) PAS website has a page for health professionals.

They can join PAS as affiliate members, no charge. They welcome health professionals from across the world.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

PAS have webinars on various issues relating to PA and B12 deficiency. I think these are open to health professionals, PAS members and non members.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

2) Have your doctors heard about Club B12?

club-12.org/

It's a group of doctors and researchers across the world who are looking into B12.

They have regular zoom meetings and have hosted conferences.

3) Good articles to pass to doctors

B. Wolffenbuttel is one of the few doctors, in my personal opinion, who seems to understand B12 deficiency.

He wrote this article for Pernicious Anaemia Society

Only One Chance

pernicious-anaemia-society....

If you search online for "B12 deficiency Wolffenbuttel" it should show others he's written, including one for Mayo Clinic in US and one for BMJ (British Medical Journal).

4) B12d.org organises interesting talks on B12 deficiency from various people including health professionals and researchers.

b12d.org/event/

I'm not medically trained.

[B12life]

It may not be PA.

B12 is in meat. So you must supplement your b vitamins on a vegan diet.

You b12 is severely low.

What are your symptoms?

Also, I suggest making a new post on this forum and ask how long it took for others with vegan diet I duced deficiency to get back to normal and if they did injections, the frequency, the dose, etc. there are people here than will know. But a new thread will catch their attention

[B12life]

also, i forgot to mention, your level is severely low. The doc is WRONG because they go by the text book and the text book is wrong.

this is my fav article which spells out the misconceptions doctors have about b12.

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articl...

It takes years to get that depleted. It will take a long time to remedy it but you will recover.

b12 is responsible for cell generation. Our cells die and regenerate every 120 days.

If left untreated the neurological symptoms can be permanent, so it's good you caught it and are working on treating it.