Associates and Outpatients

[RoseFlowerDew]

This is a heads up post following a conversation I had with a junior doctor yesterday regarding associate doctors being used in non urgent specialties. Apparently it’s a little talked about issue that has bearing on the strikes and it seems that hospitals as well as GPs are using associate doctors in place of fully qualified medical professionals. Apparently these apprentice doctors (crossed trained science graduates) are on the same pay grade as many junior doctors who have been trained to higher level’s and it’s causing upset, especially as they apparently don’t have the legal responsibility that doctors carry.

More importantly for patients is that we should be aware when the specialist is not fully trained and they should introduce themselves as associates or minimally wear name badges indicating it. I was told that frequently associates won’t inform. However by law they are required to tell you if you ask.

Now you may have seen recent news article about the sad outcomes when patients are unaware that the person they speak to regarding health issues is a crossed trained science graduate who hasn’t been through full medical education. This is important for PA because of the risk of permanent nerve damage (brain, spine etc), disability and other ‘poor’ outcomes when the condition is badly managed. Personally I believe it constitutes a failure in NHS patient rights to be treated by knowledgeable professionals. As a patient community we are quite aware I think of the lack of education in the fully trained professional group so this is compounded in situations when seen by associates. In fact if more PA sufferers complained of the lack of knowledge perhaps the NHS will become aware of the true demand for educated professionals in this field similar to diabetes. (I personally see PA as the diabetes of neurology).

Since associates are for routine appointments (think vaccinations and regular health checks) not for complicated diseases it’s important to know about this change and be a firm advocate for your health care , safety and health concerns.

[Nackapan]

Yes name badges and 'title ' should be worn.Perhaps an associate may know more about vitamins ???

Also should include B12 on health checks when doing bloods

[Wwwdot]

Thank you RoseFlowerDew

I was absolutely not aware of this. I will be making myself very unpopular from now on!

🤗🤗🤗

[RoseFlowerDew in reply to Wwwdot]

your welcome!

[Cherylclaire Forum Support]

A very useful warning- thanks.

Worth also checking, on a telephone appointment, that it is in fact a fully-qualified GP/ consultant you are speaking to, so first get a name. Advice given to me from a retired health prfessional, now patient.

This reminds me of the regular use of teaching assistants for teaching, while tying up the qualified teacher with increasing amounts of paperwork. NOT the fault of the teaching assistant, but certainly NOT the way to go.

Initially flattering, perhaps, but you don't get something for nothing - loyalty expected. Downgrading of professional status can only benefit the employer - everyone else takes the loss from going down this route.

[RoseFlowerDew in reply to Cherylclaire]

I agree that employers are trying to get more for less by using assistants of various kinds across the industries. Not knocking apprentices as they work hard but when it was reintroduced it was plain cheap labour idea rather than learning from qualified staff and valuing them. So it’s all the more important to me to be able to access qualified professionals but they are impossible to reach now without paying for. Even then I find myself at the mercy of pot luck whether they are actually able to help.

[Cherylclaire Forum Support in reply to RoseFlowerDew]

Yes, RoseFlowerDew - so true. The reintroduction of apprenticeships missed the point completely.

An apprentice needs to be taught various aspects of a trade, slowly and thoroughly, by someone who not only is skilled at the trade themselves but able to teach and happy to pass on their knowledge. For this, their on-site educating role should be paid additionally and time allowed to fulfill this role effectively. Good teachers are hard to find.

One of the problems with manual trades now is the lack of respect for what "working with your hands" might also entail : geometry, maths, problem-solving, customer care - alongside a physically demanding day's work. Pride comes from having the ability to do a job well - if time is allocated to do it to the best of that ability.

A shame. This is why we don't have enough people here that are fully qualified in the trades. And once the teachers are gone......

[Nackapan]

Just to add.Associate 'doctors ' are not new .

Have been around for about 20 yesrs .

Between a nurse an a doctor .

Supervised by a doctor as they take responsibility for what they do in practice.

Every professional should have a clear name badge and photo ID in the NHS.

Agenda for change shows the relevant pay bands