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Purely out of interest how many of you have been labeled with Functional Overlay ? ? ? 😱

Jillymo profile image
25 Replies

I recently attended my Neurology appointment.

The consultant wasn't very welcoming but hey ho nothing new there. He dismissed my symptoms as being related to B12 deficiency. He blatantly stop me when I were trying to explain what had been taking place by saying he only wanted to hear my present synptoms which dismissed what had improved since injecting.

He wants to rule out diabetes, he is doing nerve function tests which I have had before due to my lumber spine degeneration and a scan. In my consultation letter he has written I have convinced myself my symptoms ate caused by my low B12 and do add insult to injury has diagnosed Functional Overlay ! This was no surprise and if honest I were exspecting it because one of his colleagues tried to do the same. That was sometime ago before the diagnosis of B12 deficiency. I were seeing him for a stroke which he diagnosed then he slipped a piece of paper into my hand with a web address on which to my surprise was Functional Overlay !

There were no tests, no ruling out my other conditions or other possibilities just a tuning fork stuck on my forhead, a little bit of pulling and pushing of his hands up with my mine----Bingo Functional Overlay. I made a complaint to pals and asked for proof of his diagnosis - of cause there wasn't any. Luckily his diagnosis did not follow me like a bad smell due to my London specialists not adding the label to my diagnosis list.

I just read somebody elses post who was also diagnosed FND ---- I wonder how many others have been labeled with the same ?

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Jillymo
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25 Replies
Nackapan profile image
Nackapan

Its not on my notes but it's been mentioned a few tines.It means.

They do not know

It then put it back on us.

Km not sure why clinical examinations are not throughly done anymore

I do not know why they fo not want yo know past symptoms the whole story.

Ent telephone apot. Infuriated me.

Present symptoms

That's what he said literally

No hello

Gave them

Told far too many

Well yes I'm living with term

I said csn you at least give me an explanation for some.

Answer

I've no idea.

Then said what do I want

How I didn't put the phone dien is beyond me.

That's been thf most upsetting yo date

Just was not interested

I was also told at another appointment km probably addicted to B12

Another pseudo effect

Another unconscious stress??

All sorts .

It's do difficult not to get outraged by comments ax they then add

Aggressive

My dsughtef has had fibromyalgiazbd neuro functional overlay removed from her medical list.

Oh of course we have both had

?? MH

I've left that.

Wd all have ?? Mental health issues at times

How are they defined.

Chicken or egg.

My dsughter sbd I cdn list 9 antidepressants offered .we don't need them.

They however haven't noted ./ acknowledged

How well we have tolerated s chronic ongoing disabling condition for so many years without getting clinically depressed

Unfortunately women of s certdin age get dismissed alot quicker than men of a certain age. That was observed by a man not me.

.

Jillymo profile image
Jillymo in reply toNackapan

My consultation didn't go well either I cant abide neurologist they are always a bit starchy from what dealings I have had with them.

I am just about to bat the consultant another email which I will copy to both pals and my surgery........added to my letter the following.

Whilst on the subject of functioal overlay - kindly provide the evidence of your unfounded diagnosis ?

Functional overlay is not diagnosed by waggling a finger in front of a patients face or pushing their hands up and down. A diagnosis can only be made by ruling other conditions out until they have exhausted all other possibilities.

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny in reply toJillymo

Good for you Jillymo for standing up to them.

I saw I think at least 5 neurologists and only one did I rate as reasonably good...he at least thought B12 deficiency was possible.

I was diagnosed with psychosomatic symptoms and probably FND and hypochondria etc.

I saw someone who specialised in psychosomatic symptoms and felt I was put under pressure to accept the diagnosis. I kept saying that I thought there was a physical condition causing the majority of my symptoms....in the end I just shut up and didn't say much.

In the end I realised that the only person who was going to help me was myself.

I can truly say that I got far further with finding out what was wrong with me than any of the neurologists and other specialists I saw.

I got snapped at by one neurologist ... he seemed very impatient.

Made sure I took someone with me to follow up appointment as a witness.

These days after some difficult experiences I would prefer to have a supportive person as a witness due to losing trust and /or to record appointments.

I'd have made a formal complaint if I could have proved the way I was spoken to.

Article on recording appointments

bma.org.uk/advice-and-suppo...

CAB NHS Complaints

citizensadvice.org.uk/healt...

There are charities/organisations who can support people who want to make a complaint.

Advocacy

voiceability.org/about-advo...

advocacyproject.org.uk/what...

pohwer.net/nhs-complaints-a...

Ombudsman

ombudsman.org.uk/making-com...

I hope PALS are helpful, personally I found them ineffective.

HDA patient care trust

UK charity that offers free second opinions on medical diagnoses and medical treatment.

Not currently taking on new cases.

hdapatientcaretrust.com/

Amending medical records

GPs have to change factual mistakes eg wrong name, wrong date of birth.

They do not have to change a diagnosis just because a patient disagrees with it.

A patient can ask for a note to be inserted in their records saying they disagree with something.

nhsx.nhs.uk/information-gov...

Jillymo profile image
Jillymo in reply toSleepybunny

Pals are a waste of time inmy experience, they push your complaint back to the person your complaining about. If you get as far as the ombudsman he often refuses to take your case on.

I have had covering notes put inmy medical notes in the past for errors or unjustified comments made by consultants -but these are all things people like ourselves could do with out it's all added stress.

Thank you for the links.

Gambit62 profile image
Gambit62Administrator

interesting article by a firm specialising in medical casesblbchronicpain.co.uk/news/w...

Jillymo profile image
Jillymo in reply toGambit62

Bless you Gambit,

I shall be batting that to the said consultant. 🏸

Narwhal10 profile image
Narwhal10

Hi Jillymo,

I am so sorry to read how appalling you have been treated and others.

I too had functional neurological disorder, from a private male neurologist, way back when. I couldn’t walk in a straight line. I took a friend with me and asked to record the conversation which was denied. Fortunately, a private female GP was unimpressed when she saw my tremors and ataxia. Then another lovely private neurologist Oh Coeliac disease and multiple deficiencies.

To follow on from Nackapan’s point of gender. I do wonder how many of us are female. There are many gender health inequalities studies and our government (England, Wales, Scotland) and the World Health Organisation (W.H.O) have produced several papers, reports and papers trying to address this. Areas discussed are not been listened to, pain management and dementia.

Unfortunately, doctors, us females are more likely to have autoimmune diseases. 80% women as opposed to 20% of men. Recent research shows this is due to the XX chromosome. Our symptoms initially are vague and on average takes 10 years to diagnose with multiple trips to doctors. Because of the inflammatory response, we will be in a lot of pain and it affects our whole body. There’s a massive domino affect. We will be exhausted (it is the fatigue of oxidative stress which is biological stress, not the cat was sick on the carpet type of stress).

A sibling who’s a Consultant has always said, ‘Any doctor who claims they know everything is dangerous.’

Nackapan profile image
Nackapan in reply toNarwhal10

I totally agree with the last comment.My husband actually wrote to our local mp . I'd forgotten.

He also stated the gender discrimination.

The Mp gave no response to tge while letter about b12.

Then when chased lio service noy read by the mp.

Yrs biological stress is exhausting.

Glad you defined that.

Another note fo me.

Jillymo profile image
Jillymo in reply toNarwhal10

I have found over the considerable amount of years many male consultants use bullying tactics with regard to female patients. In my younger years I would come out in floods of tears - but no more. 🤺

I often wonder if I had a man at my side if I would get treated in the same way. This consultans attitude was appalling and he was adamant not to listen to my symptoms. As for the notes I had made I didn't even get a chance to refer to them.

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny in reply toJillymo

"In my younger years I would come out in floods of tears - but no more. "

Ah so many times....I can really relate to above comment.

I was treated so badly that I suspect I have mild PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) symptoms.

Lurcher-lady profile image
Lurcher-lady in reply toSleepybunny

Can relate to this too. Nobody goes to the Gp for the fun of it, even less, knowing you are about to be embarrassed by breaking down 😕

Narwhal10 profile image
Narwhal10 in reply toSleepybunny

Dreadful, absolutely dreadful.

SigNi profile image
SigNi in reply toSleepybunny

Ditto

SigNi profile image
SigNi in reply toNarwhal10

Every word of this resonates. I am esp aware of the dissonance in care due in part to my former profession. I am a retired, senior military officer (US, female). In service, there was some medical discrimination (men more often presumed to have service related disabilities) & missteps. And in my younger years there was some serious gaslighting from older docs & even now the system is far from perfect. But in general my appts with service docs & specialists were efficient, honest, & respectful. It helped that as I grew older I often outranked, or was equal in rank to the provider. 😂 Age was an advantage. I never had to “prove” my symptoms. I was called ma’am, symptoms were recorded, family & medical history noted, & tests ordered, results discussed. More tests ordered as needed. No drama. It is how it should be for everyone. Now that I’m navigating the German system I find it is the norm to assume older women are delusional. The disrespect & gaslighting are enraging. And the disregard for personal & family medical history is, in my opinion, malpractice. I still haven’t found the key, but am likely to take my husband to my next neurology appointment - which also infuriates me. My word is suspect, but his is taken at face value. 🤬🤬🤬

Jillymo profile image
Jillymo in reply toSigNi

I can remember when patients were listened to and both Drs and consultants treated you with respect and would try to get to the root of the problem. How standards have changed and what a battle it has become.

Sorry for such a short reply - I am in agony and need to put a post on in hope of getting some insight of what is wrong.

in reply toJillymo

One problem today is that you get paid to do a job.Whether or not that job has been successful in addressing the problem. How many doctors/specialists have failed in treating people but still claim there huge salary.

How many politicians have failed in government and have been rewarded !

If all payments for work undertaken were to be based on results more attention would be paid to finding the right treatment.

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny in reply toJillymo

Sorry to read that you are suffering Jillymo.

Hope things improve soon for you.

Narwhal10 profile image
Narwhal10 in reply toJillymo

Wish you better soon. x

SaywhatIsee profile image
SaywhatIsee in reply toJillymo

Had a minor op in 2019, was early for 1st appointment, so patient watched as there was around 80 over 3 clinics. Each one was in and out within 5 minutes, including myself, with the comments in medical speech at speed, obviously. Went to A & E in Dec 21, doctor was not interested in my injuries, head, neck and spine. She also admitted that she does not listen to patients, typed up on the computer, squeezed my shoulder without telling me, and instantly came up with a box of painkillers, and I was out within 5 minutes. My x-rays were done at a private american hospital, and my pending Physio, by a contractor, really.

Jillymo profile image
Jillymo in reply toSaywhatIsee

It seems not only is this apalling treatment in the uk it's world wide.I have had similar experiences - I went to A&E with heart failure which was both diagnosed and confirmed and ended up being treated for gastritis. 🤔

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny

Other links that might be of interest....

Healthwatch (England)

healthwatch.co.uk/your-loca...

Personally I'm not convinced that Healthwatch has much impact but happy to be proved wrong.

Healthwise Wales

healthwisewales.gov.wales/a...

Community Health Councils in Wales

boardchc.nhs.wales/your-loc...

Quality Care Commission (CQC)

cqc.org.uk/

Healthcare Improvement Scotland

healthcareimprovementscotla...

Still trying to find out about similar organisations in NI.

I Want Great Care

(Review website)

iwantgreatcare.org/

NHS reviews GP surgeries

nhs.uk/service-search/find-...

Find GP surgery then click on reviews tab.

GP Patient Survey

gp-patient.co.uk/

NHS England Making a Complaint

england.nhs.uk/contact-us/c...

Scottish Public Services Ombudsman

spso.org.uk/

Care Opinion

(Share experiences of healthcare)

careopinion.org.uk/

If you put B12 injection or B12 deficiency in search box, there are several stories to look at.

I'm surprised there aren't more considering what I read on this forum.

I think it is possible to post without your name being made public.

Rexz profile image
Rexz

Jillymo, Functional Overlay was suggested to me but not a diagnosis. Functional Overlay is simply a doctors term for "I have no idea what the heck is happening" it is convenient, lazy, and meaningless diagnosis. Before I had my PA diagnosis the entire right side of my body went numb in summer of 2020 and I spent the night in emergency. I was tested with brain scans, spinal cord scans, CTscans, Magnetic Resonance Angiography, I was prodded and poked and stuck some more. I had all the neurological vibration tests, functional tests... I had all the symptoms of a stroke yet they could find nothing. No evidence of stroke. So I was diagnosed with a Transient Ischemic Attack or TIA. This is similar to Functional Overlay because it is also a useless diagnosis but lets the neurologist off the hook. TIA means in doctor parlance that it looks, smells and feels like you had a stroke but we can find no evidence of a stroke. So TIA means "I don't know what the heck happened". But I can put that diagnosis down and then I am done with you.

Turns out, as I found out months later, my numbness and nuero issues were all related to PA, extremely low B12, and nerve damage of which has since have healed about 95%.

Understand that neurologists, although they've come a long way, really know so little about how the brain functions. We have such high expectations and at times place them on this pedestal of great knowledge and that coupled with their own arrogance almost requires they give these meaningless diagnosis. The alternative would be for them to just be honest and speak in the terminology of the patient...that being "I don't know".

in reply toRexz

Instead of saying "I don't Know" they should add " I don't know anything about B12 deficiency".

That was my doctors excuse after leaving me for nearly 2 years all but bedridden.

Rexz profile image
Rexz in reply to

Ah, yes, agree wholeheartedly! I read somewhere that doctors receive maybe half an hour of training on vitamin B12 at medical school. Virtually nothing on PA. I am not sure how valid that is but my experience seems to validate that. In summer of 2020 I was pretty much bedridden 16 hours a day and I had to go through 14 different doctors before I found one, a hematologist, that was knowledgeable on PA. Thank God most of my symptoms have resolved.

Rex

Narwhal10 profile image
Narwhal10 in reply to

Sorry to hear, but YES.

I was only 6 months but was pointing and flexing my toes, as we are at increased risk of deep vein thrombosis. Oh and we should be told to change position to stop ourselves getting pressure sores.

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