To all on the PA Society group, I do hope that you've all managed to enjoy the festive period as much as is possible!
Just had a quick question if that's alright? I've still got a load of B12 Hydroxocobalamin ampoules that I bought from the lovely Versandapo a while back, but these had an expiry date of the end of April 2021. They've been stored in a cool, dark and dry space all along, but I was just wondering what your thoughts were on using them now? Are they beyond the pale, or could they still be used potentially? I've never been a huge fan of wasting things unnecessarily, so if the latter was possible, that would always be great news!
Needless to say, I'd be very grateful for any opinions you might have on this.
Alex
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alexstanhope
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Provided its april 2022 they are fine, when covid first started and I was in need of a shot I used one two months out of date, but I would not recommend it unless you have no alternative.
Unfortunately the expiration date is too far out. Even though it wouldn’t be harmful, but the potency will be diminished. It’s not worth it if doesn’t provide the necessary symptoms relief.
I'm just wondering what evidence you have for this?
This question comes up quite often and I'd be very interested in seeing how the labs determine their "use by" dates for products: what it is based on and what breakdown rates B12 displays?
If you work in, or have links to the production of, the B12 ampoules or the pharmaceutical industry, would you be willing to share your experience with us, please? It would be really interesting!
This is a very interesting question that comes up quite often. In the absence of evidence from labs or the pharmaceutical industry its hard to say.
Obviously officially we cannot advise you to use anything that is out of date.
However, the general consensus has been that people who have used out of date ampoules - and there are several of us - and various scientists on the group, suggest that glass ampoules are a biologically safe way of storing the fluid and will stop pathogens getting in. It is suggested that the main problem is likely to be reduced potency of the vitamin.
I am not a chemist but B12 does seem to be an inherently stable molecule, not least indicated by the fact that the boxes of it have long shelf from production dates on them.
I do not know what the method for determining the shelf life of it is and do not know what tests it undergoes. Having worked in the food industry I know that there is no set method of determining shelf life and it is up to the producer to chose what "use by" or "best before" dates they want to put on their stock, based on their own view of the product under normal conditions! I don't know if the same applies to the pharmaceutical industry or if it is more strictly regulated.
You can be certain that they will be still considered perfect at their expiry date and will only deteriorate from there.
I am NOT advising you to follow my possibly questionable practice, but, when I knew we were going through Brexit I took note of the expiry dates of ampoules that were being issued at the time and chose to buy enough ampoules to last me for a year beyond their expiry date - working on the principle it might take a couple of years for the supply chain to work itself out and I didn't want to run out. I was prepared (possibly wrongly) to risk using old stock, more than I was prepared to run out.
One significant word of caution: it is important how they are stored. Light is the main risk factor and UV light will destabilise them - but how quickly I don't know. I would advise that they must be stored in the dark. Mine are in their boxes in a dark cupboard which is rarely accessed. Heat above 25°C can also potentially be a problem, although less so.
(Around 8°C is usually about the best temperature for storing liquids to maintain molecular compound stability, with temperature stability more important than a specific degree but I only know this from food industry storage best practice and don't readily have the scientific papers to back up what I'm saying. However I just keep my ampoules at room temperature.)
I need to inject daily and so keep some ampoules for emergencies in my car. I thought I was good at rotating the stock but the other day I was some distance away from home and suddenly found that my B12d symptoms were starting to come back. I then realised that I had got distracted in the morning and had forgotten to do my jab. I then discovered that the expiry date on the ampoules in my car was 2019 and they had obviously been exposed to extremes of heat and temperature fluctuations (but had been kept dark). I was starting to feel pretty grim and wasn't keen on driving home feeling like that so I chose to take the risk and used an ampoule. After a few minutes I felt better, carried on my day OK and forgot about it.
You could argue that it was just chance or maybe placebo, but equally it could have been nocebo and I could have felt worse as a result of using one that was suspect.
It was a one off and impossible to say, other than it did not affect me adversely. I have since used the second one that was in the car to use it up (also no ill effects) and have replaced them with in-date ones for future emergency use.
It remains that best practice is to use them within their dates and not to use yourself as a test dummy! 😃
Just as I would expect - and really appreciate your comment. I always feel a bit uncomfortable about admitting to doing things unconventionally but I now confess if I had stored them like Alex and I do, ie in a cool, dark and dry place, I probably wouldn't have any qualms about using them myself even 5 years beyond their expiry dates!
I'm generally fairly happy to trust my judgement on things. Just because something says it should be OK, if it seems to have changed then I reject it and vise versa.
That is generally the case, yes! The FSA (Food Standards Agency) relies on the fact that producers are likely to want to safeguard their reputation.
There are some companies that pasteurise their products and package them in air tight containers so that they will last at least a year or two but then put "short" dates on them to encourage customers to think they are "fresh" and to encourage turnover. It's a bit of a sharp practice in a way!
Unless things have changed very recently, it is not against the law to repackage some products that have not been sold to represent them with later sell by dates either!
Drug manufacturers are required to have an expiry date on their products. Sometimes its based on known breakdown or severe deterioration of effectiveness. In the case of ampoules of B12 they are extremely unlikely to deteriorate unless stored in the light or above 25 degrees celsius. They will not become dangerous in any way - they might be a little less effective. If they still give similar symptom relief then there isn't a problem.
Thanks so much for all of you who took the time to answer my question; very much appreciated, I must say!
As it happens, I was in a similar situation to deniseinmilden in that I stocked up with a bulk purchase from Germany prior to the end of the Brexit transition period as I thought this might be the safest thing to do, seeing as it's virtually impossible to source the stuff in the UK from what I can see!
Sadly, I didn't end up using them all, but was very careful to store the remainder in a dark, cool spot (which certainly never exceeded 25 degrees Celsius), and the ampoules themselves have never been taken out of their boxes for any reason, so exposure to light won't have been an issue.
Personally, my "gut" is telling me they'll probably be absolutely fine, but might see if the nice folk at Bodfeld can send me some new ones!
purely own experience regarding using an out of date ampule but i was given one that was out of date that month i had it and found i started getting symptoms of being under medicated a month into the shot ( i get shots every 2 months).
That was the only time i felt those symptoms that early.
I bought a good stock, (stored at the top o the fridge), in anticipation of Brexit, which have been out of date for a while, and have been using them every other day for a while now with no problems.
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