i'd like to hear from members getting b12 powder, dissolving in saline, and drawing on that vial multiple times. i think the system also uses diabetic needles since the volume is much lower than 1cc.
perniciousanemia.org and oxfordbiosciences are 2 sites that sell like this.
this seems to me a simpler, less painful, maybe cheaper way to go. but how to make so many draws (30?) and stay hygienic? and there is no draw needle? so how not to blunt the insulin needle. how are people (if any) doing this in practice? thx
I’m afraid that mixing powder with saline and using a multiple use vial is strongly discouraged on this forum due to the possibility of introducing bacteria and other toxins into the injection.
agreed. it does sound iffy. but when i contacted the company they said the larger risk is actually what's on your skin. so wipe that site. : )
just posting because there might be some people who have been doing this with success. if only sterile needles are touching the solution and the solution itself is a poor environment for microbe growth it could work just fine. but if you drop bits of powdered donut in it that could be bad.
i can see how people might not advocate it here. i am, after all, using ampoules at the moment.
Thunderdoggy. The company would say that wouldn't they. They’re trying to sell you something!
'Poor' environment for bacterial growth and 'could' work fine? The point here is that the powder is not medical grade sterile. And once the saline is opened, that ceases to become sterile. Saving this mixed non-sterile solution for repeated injections over an unknown quantity of time (or indeed any time) for injection into the body - please don't.
This would not be done in any medical establishment. Any powdered medications for injection comes in sealed sterile single ampoules and are for immediate used. Multi dose bottles of sealed sterile medications remain sealed and sterile for multi-dose use (powdered or otherwise) and are marked by the manufactures for disposal after 28 days. The key here is that these products are medical grade, sterile, remain sterile through the use period, and are intended for injection for a limited time only.
When I was first diagnosed I did buy some from one of the suppliers you mention. I never used it - I threw it away - because of the issues mentioned above and concerns about injecting a non-sterile substance into my body (I'm an ex-nursing professional).
We always recommend medical grade single dose sterile ampoules for injection.
Much safer to stick to the single dose sterile ampoules that you’re already using.
good points. and i appreciate you cautioning me. chances are i will stick to the ampoules.
but, because i'm inquisitive, i'd like to share a few thoughts. when i was kid i was very active. i remember falling on asphalt and having to dig little bits of gravel and dirt out of my knee. lots of blood too. no infection. i've been bitten by snakes that drew blood. no infection. bitten by dogs. no infection. have i had infections from wounds? yes, but mostly not and they didn't amount to much. but if i took a 5/8" needle, stuck it in the dirt, and then used it for subcutaneous.....? i suspect i'd be just fine. don't worry. not trying it.
in america we've gone a little crazy with disinfecting. madly over prescibed antibiotics that my aunt (a nurse) warned about in the 80s. antibacterial soaps. for a while all microbes seemed dangerous and targeted for death.
now there are some really nasty bugs. i think they hang out in hospitals. where i will not be injecting.
"just posting because there might be some people who have been doing this with success"
So far!
The problem with using a single vial multiple times is the time between uses. If you'[re going to use the whole vial in an hour then it's OK. Any bacteria or fungal spores that get introduced don't have a chance to grow. That's why the BioNTech vaccine for covid-19 is OK even though one vial supplies five doses.
But, if you're keeping the vial for a few weeks then anything nasty has plenty of time to grow and grow. Rather than a few bacteria from your skin hitching a lift on the needle you are depositing millions of them straight into your body.
The other problem is that you have no control over the pH. Single-use ampoules have buffers to make sure the acidity is correct. Without them the pH can change, increasing the rate at which the B12, especially methylcobalamin deteriorates.
if we were being scientific we'd probably want to see what grows in that open vial. maybe not much. maybe the Andromeda strain. some mediums don't grow much.
in the US they use a mercury compound to keep multi vial flu shots sterile. at least they used to. i'd rather take my chances with the open vial. sometimes i'm more concerned about the disinfectant than the invasive microbes.
does the ph change because of oxidation? i would expect oxidation to be the main factor in degrading B12. that is if it's kept at good temps and out of UV.
anyway, i do appreciate you guys trying to save me from myself. but even my mother failed there.
I have tried the powder you referred to , I think . Methylcobalamin powder ? I found no advantage over the single-use Hydroxocobalamin ampoules which are obtainable from online German pharmacies . In fact disadvantages -messing around , mixing the powder with saline ( also expensive from Online German pharmacies ) etc . There is certainly a risk of it becoming contaminated once mixed . Also more expensive. Have you tried the single-use Hydroxocobalamin ampoules ? - They are what the NHS uses . I’ll send you instructions on how to obtain them . As I need to inject weekly , I order 100 ( 10 x 10 packs ) The use -by date is usually about 2 1/2 years .
thanks wedgewood. i was wondering what the actual experience was like. no substituent for experience.
i am using ampoules. hydroxy. i have found snapping the ampoules super easy in bare hands. i do need to get some draw needles w/ filter. currently doing it with one needle which is tricky but no blunting yet.
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