Advice on sublinguals

[sbadd]

Just wondering how ofter i would need to take 1000mcg sublinguals compared to having injections, i am very sensitive to b12 injections and still feel i have a b12 problem despite recent tests 8 months after loading injections that show normal serum b12 and active and folate, my main sympton is increased heart rate and my thyroid is way underactive atm due to stopping meds and recommencing on small dose but still having increased heart rate and out of breathe, seeing cardiologist atm but so far everything normal, also what further tests for b12 can i have if i hit dead end with thyroid and heart? Have had instrinsic factor test and celiac both negative also original b12 testing showed low stores but active was within range?

[fbirder]

It all depends.

I could chew on sublinguals all day and it would do nothing for me (I know, I have tried). I just cannot absorb oral B12.

Others swear that they are wonderful (although I can't think of anybody who says that they can replace injections for them).

[sbadd in reply to fbirder]

Thankyou i just wondered if they would need to be daily or just few times a week to get same amount as injection?

[fbirder in reply to sbadd]

The absorption of B12 from the gut is limited. Studies show that similar amounts of B12 are absorbed from sublingual and oral doses, which strongly suggests that there is no sublingual absorption (otherwise you would expect people without an absorption problem to absorb X amount orally and Y amount sublingually).

That limit is around 10 mcg.

So, to get the same amount of B12 into the body as you'd get from one injection would take 100 sublingual doses.

However, the B12 from an injection will all enter in one go (well, over a few hours) and the more B12 there is in the blood, the more the body will eliminate it. So less of the sublingual doses would be eliminated. Just how much less isn't really possible to say.

You need to use an equation like this one -

P = A x e^(a x t) + B x e^(b x t) + C x e^(c x t)

Where A, B, C, a, b, and c all need to be experimentally determined. I've not been able to find anybody who has actually done this. I think it would take over a year of collecting blood samples from many volunteers and testing them for levels of B12.

[sbadd in reply to fbirder]

Ok so i would be safe to take daily or few times a week then without and possible side effects as injections were too much for me , i experienced nearly every sympton of a b12 deficiency after injections which took months to subside, symptons i didnt have prior

[buster_uk in reply to sbadd]

Sounds like me Sbad. Injections make everything worse.

[sbadd in reply to buster_uk]

Wish id never had them as all i had prior was tiredness then everything went crazy? 8 months on and several specialist and nearly every part of my body examined im still not right have now had to totally stop thyroid meds as was having symptons of being overactive so matter of eliminating, racing heart started after injections and still continues, have been ruled out for peri menopause, its like i now have hormonal inbalance somewhere or maybe become sensitive to my thyroid meds which makes no sense as been on them for 14 years? At my wits end, definitely better than what i was though.

[buster_uk in reply to sbadd]

Glad you have some improvements. It's not a great place to be

[sbadd in reply to buster_uk]

Yes i just realized you had the pruney fingers as well, mine are now plump again, very strange

[buster_uk in reply to sbadd]

Mine too. Can't work it out at all.

Must be something that comes an goes.

[sbadd in reply to buster_uk]

Yes i could squish top of fingers and they would stay cone shaped and pruning was like they been in water, very odd just glad there back for now

[buster_uk in reply to sbadd]

You described it well. It was like you had deformed fingers.

Even holding my phone left indentations in my fingers.

[Lurcher-lady in reply to buster_uk]

At first, injections do make symptoms worse, you just have to ride the storm until it starts making things better. If you give up then you’re back to square one. My first injections gave me pain, numbness, palpitations and eye problems. I nearly stopped, but carried on and a few months in am so glad I did. Think of it like a detox, that makes things worse too. Sublingual 4x daily did nothing for me and were expensive 😉

[buster_uk in reply to Lurcher-lady]

Thank you lurcher-lady.

Its a long slow road to travel.

[lesbud1 in reply to sbadd]

I used to take sublingual no shot 1000mcg with folic acid 400mcg daily. they used to help me but I was still on injections every 8 weeks and I realise now that I was possibly only absorbing about 1% orally as b12 molecule is too big to be absorbed sublingually but they did help me. no harm in trying or even higher dose of b12. hope you start feeling better soon.

[Auntyp62]

I was given injection for about a year but found they made me jittery anxious and raised my pulse for a few days and as I don’t have pa just difficulty keeping b12 high I changed to 1000 sublingual daily which I worked well. I found my thyroid health improved in as much as I converted t4to t3 better. I stopped taking for a month worried I was taking too much and everything nose dived. I now take the b12 and a b complex 5 days a week and have done for past year. When I started with injections my vit d was also very low and I took a high dose for 3 weeks gradually lowering it. I am convinced that we can’t expect to feel well till all these are optimum.

[sbadd in reply to Auntyp62]

Im wondering if b12 injections made my thyroid work better aswell and that the dose i was on was then too much but my bloods didnt say that, my palpitations started after 2nd injection and 8 months on im still getting increased heart rate few times a day, so over it as feel tired when it happens and short of breath and now that my thyroid is so underactive i have to wait to build levels back down, most of symptons i had of feeling overactive have passed now but heart rate continues

[Auntyp62 in reply to sbadd]

Unfortunately thyroid, b12def, low folate and vit d deficiency all have a similar effect with regard to symptoms and you describe them well and unless all are addressed you won’t feel well. My husband started b12injections at surgery last week and was very jittery with raised heartbeat 24 hours after so maybe some people react that way.

[sbadd in reply to Auntyp62]

Yes cant be coincidence as ive never suffered with palps until injections, you would think after 8 months though it should be through my system, above results are recent with no supplements of b12 or folate apart from maybe 2 sublinguals i tried in last few months

[Auntyp62 in reply to sbadd]

Is it palpitations or raised heartbeats.......the only time I get palpitations is when I am low on my thyroxine

[sbadd in reply to Auntyp62]

Raised heart rate during day, resting 90-100

Just jumps up no reason can get to 139 or in 120's

Was doing this when thyroid levels were in range aswell

Tsh 1.75 t4 18.2 t3 5.4

Thyroid tsh now 9 due to stopping meds and restarting, we tried this to see if it was thyroid meds, some symptons have gone such as shaking, tremor hot flushing shaky hand but raised heart rate still there?

[Auntyp62 in reply to sbadd]

That makes things confusing doesn’t it

[sbadd in reply to Auntyp62]

Yes as was reluctant to stop thyroid but i must admit the other symptoms have gone just have odd pins n needles, i felt like i was overmedicated or become sensitive to the thyroid? Perimenopause was also ruled out, been back on 25mcg for 4 weeks still underactive now on 50mcg twice week other days 25mcg? Was originally on 75mcg

Hoping to get levels back to where they need to be, then rule out heart problem which have had several tests for awaiting next cardiologist appt? All else fails i ask to try beta blocker as had this with ct scan of heart and felt great for rest of day, but i want to know whats causing it.