Pernicious Anaemia Society
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Good advice?

Hi I went to a naturopath to get a different take on my autoimmune gastritis. She recommended. Apple cider vinegar before every meal and a host of supplements... most of which I was taking anyhow. She also recommended

- removing all amalgam fillings

- going completely dairy free

- going completely grain free

- going completely sugar free

- 1 coffee a week on

- 2 glasses of wine a week

- only cooked veg

This is obviously hugely restrictive. I suppose I have no problem doing it for a while but I am concerned about skipping some food groups completely over the long-term. As she said this will be a long-term way of eating. Has anyone else followed this eating plan and did it work?

Thanks for your advice

Carrie

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Pretty much. But i still like my meat for the B12

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Did it work Pvwnderra?

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Apple cider 10 ml (2 TBLS) in a cup of hot water with a slice of lemon is good. It takes getting used to.

Haven’t had all analgams removed. Still thinking about it.

Gluten and dairy free has cleared up a lot of symptoms and discomfort. Once I knew what worked for me, I pretty much have a fixed diet. I make everything from scratch any don’t even trust my wife to make my food. Restaurants and pre-prepared/frozen food is like playing Russian roulette.

I’m off all alcohol and don’t miss it at all.

After my father passed away from complications from diabetes ladt year, I went sugar free. Hope this decision was not too late. I’m slowly losing weight too. Unfortunately, I still have a nut bar with its corn syrup.

Coffee, however, I feel the caffeine helps keep me going at work but I put a half teaspoon of turmeric & a teaspoon of ground cardamom in with the coffee grounds before brewing. (10 cup pot) During the week, I drink 4 large cups per day and on the weekends only 1 or 2.

I put salsa on everything to increase acidity. I don’t add salt to my food.

For any heartburn, i drink orange juice or the vinegar drink to calm it.

Ready salted crisps, 2 snack sized bags per day is my limit, has become a staple even when I travel.

Anything green and leafy is good. I need to eat more of it though.

Red meat but in 1/2 sized portions is still good.

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Thanks Pvanderra

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The naturopath should be drawing up a bespoke diet for you. Was she private or NHS? I suspect private but she cannot just leave you in the lurch like this.

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She gave me the name of a few cook books... she didn’t test that I was allergic to any of these food groups. She just said to cut them out. Do you follow this diet apples and oranges? Thanks

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I cannot eat wheat, gluten, soy, amaranth, gluten, corn aspartame, dairy. I would get your money back. You could have gone to weight watchers. If she prescribes any vitamin D be careful. xx

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Thanks apples and oranges

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theres no such thing as an NHS Naturopath.

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THanks.

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Yeah that’s why I’m asking I don’t want to put myself through years of depravation (maybe sugar and bread but quinoa- natural yogurt?) for no good reason! So I’m asking do people feel it’s necessary? And if anyone has done the diet and it worked for them! Thanks

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Not sure advocating a vegetarian diet for someone who is B12 deficient is a good idea Carrie?!

Dr. K, a leading neurologist and lecturer - now doing research at Harvard, does not recommend mercury fillings are removed.

His book, "Why isn't my Brain Working", will answer most of your questions re. gut/brain axis, as well as mercury. His advice is to increase L- glutathione, along with N-acetylcysteine and L-glutamine. This helps to reduce the chance of chemical intolerance or autoimmunity:

"Glutathione is a safe chelator - "nutrients that support glutathione levels and recycling have been shown to chelate and excrete heavy metals from the body without displacing them into other tissues, such as the brain".

I have Hashimoto's which often leads to autoimmune gastritis and destruction of the parietal cells and therefore PA. I follow a healthy but gluten free diet, take daily spoonfuls of organic sauerkraut for acid reflux, etc. turmeric in hot water for inflammation and a good probiotic.

I try not to eat processed food or sugar, am OK with tea and filter coffee with milk and, although I really miss a glass of wine, find this is the worst thing for causing a flare up of gastric symptoms.

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Thanks Polaris

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This article re. Epigenetics is really interesting :

samanthagilbert.com/epigene...

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Does Dr K say anything about magnesium at all?

o

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Dr K writes that magnesium supports insulin receptor sensitivity - it's reported that insulin resistance is experienced in those with low magnesium. ("If you do not stabilise your blood sugar levels, you compromise fuel to the brain").

He states it's also needed along with other nutrients (pyridoxal-5phosphate - an active form of B6, niacin, methyl B12, folic acid) for serotonin:

"A severe magnesium deficiency may hamper conversion of 5-HTP into serotonin; you see magnesium deficiencies in those taking diuretics, a first line therapy for high blood pressure. Athletes who overtrain can also become deficient in magnesium. Methyl donors such as methyl B12 are important for the conversion of 5-HTP to serotonin. Studies show people who take SSRIs for long periods of time become deficient in methyl donors and P-5-P. "

......

V. Interesting - this could explain why so many with CFS/B12def. etc. become so much worse after stress or overdoing exercise?

I personally take magnesium citrate 🙂

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if you have a B12 absorption problem then the amount of B12 in your diet is pretty irrelevant - ie being vegetarian or vegan isn't going to make much difference to your B12 status. It will only make a difference if you don't have an absorption problem so vegetarians may and vegans do need to take regular supplements (low dose) or take sufficient fortified foods

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There are many important nutrients in meat besides B12 (although B12 is the most difficult to absorb), as Dr Terry Wahl discovered (diagnosed and seriously ill with MS but recovered on a paleo diet). She had been a strict vegetarian, as had Dr Amy Myers. A very interesting book is, 'The Vegetarian Myth', by Leah ?

As an old lady who has known and knows many vegetarians over the years with serious health problems, I would not advise this diet for anyone.

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that is a very different from 'someone who is B12 deficient'.

Any diet that restricts a food group has its risks. As someone who finds it impossible to digest meat I would hold back from proscribing or prescribing any diet. People need to make informed decisions that are relevant to them

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I would not prescribe a diet - just giving information - as asked, Gambit!

That everyone is different goes without saying and, of course, has to make up their own mind but with as much information as possible.

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Need food allergy testing. If u think you are allergic or food intolerant your dr can refer you to immunologist NHS

Or get the tests done privately but they are expensive.

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Thanks Eaoz

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I have a rule, never, ever, accept medical advice from an -opath. Be it homeo-, naturo-, or psycho-.

Tell her you have nothing wrong with your brain, so you shall be ignoring her ridiculous recommendations. Ask her why she decided to be a naturopath, rather than a real doctor. Read this blog - naturopathicdiaries.com

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Thanks everyone.. my problem is I’m asymptomatic in the tummy department .. no bloating... constipation. But apparently I have no stomach acid what so ever. I have also had an endocrine tumour removed so there is something major going on there even if it doesn’t bother me. I think I’ll go gluten free and avoid sugar and excessive caffeine-alcohol. But I’m not going to obsess over it. Complete depravation seems excessive and possibly dangerous!

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Thanks fbirder!

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I have a rule too, keep an open mind. "Medicine - the science or practice of the diagnosis, treatment and prevention of disease". If my doctor had been any good at carrying out any of those I wouldn't have ended up on HealthUnlocked - he was a bit too handy with the prescription pad for my liking and the last person I would take diet advice from. Perhaps I picked the only "opath" in the NHS.

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I am going to point out that a naturopath has saved me from the destructive medical practices of a highly rated M.D. My former M.D. misunderstood thyroid blood tests and prescribed me thyroid medication which acted like accelerant going off in my body. He put me into a 40 day, medically induced overactive thyroid state in which I lost a dangerous amount of weight, could not sleep a wink, and became suicidal. Why did this happen - because this M.D. did not know how to read blood tests and he relied an the lab company and how they will mark certain results as either High or Low. This M.D had NO clue when the thyroid medicine did not work the way he thought. The problem was I was OVERACTIVE thyroid and he gave me Thyroid medication. He overstepped his knowledge, he was not an endocrinologist and basically thought he knew everything.

Another point of malpractice was his MTHFR genetic testing, which I did not ask for, to which he said it was important for me to avoid folic acid and take methylfolate. Following this instruction has compromised my health making my adrenaline so high I was having continual panic attacks. Methylfolate is known to speed up the destruction of serotonin, promoting depression, and it also stimulates the production of adrenaline.

If I had not gone to a Naturopathic doctor, I would have continued taking methylfolate, which other doctors agreed with and never thought it could be the root cause of my severe depression and anxiety. It never crossed their minds. They would have simply pushed the dispensation of SSRI antidepressants, which probably would not work and cause numerous side effects.

Naturopathic doctors are the wave of the future because they are actually taught to think and look and listen to the patient instead of trying to write a prescription to get the patient out of their office as quickly as possible.

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Well said Saminarizona, I do agree with you that Naturopathic doctors have an important role in health and I am looking forward to the day when they have an even playing field with medical doctors. But I don't think that is going to happen any time soon as all the funding comes from Big Pharma who just want to sell their drugs. Unfortunately the UK doesn't seem blessed with too many ND's but I do follow many excellent Naturopathic doctors in the US, some of whom trained as medical doctors and then went on to re-train as Naturopathic doctors.

All drugs have side effects and in my opinion none of them 'cure' any condition, but GP's are not trained sufficiently to either care, or know the root cause and leave patients taking drugs for years on end when in reality they should only be used short term to temporarily alleviate symptoms.

Interesting about Methylfolate, I was unaware of that, thanks.

I wish you well

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what a strange answer ...? why are her recommendations ridiculous?

and training to be a naturopath is undoubtedly because she wanted to treat people through natural approaches rather than so many toxic drugs .

Quack busting blogs are always so one sided and overwrought . How about "confessions of a doctor "? many many people have died or been harmed through poor treatment from doctors /hospital consultants ; Iatrogenic disease is the 3rd commonest cause of death

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I'm training to be a naturopath as well.

Strangely at least 20% of the course is how much to charge people.

How many sites are there written by medical doctors who have given it all up to become naturopaths? Rather than people who had to drop out of real medical school and took up naturopathy as a second best?

Naturopathic diaries are written by a qualified naturopath who realised it was all about the con. So she decided to spend the extra time and effort involved in becoming a real doctor.

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20% of your time -how long is your course? Any decent natural health course should be at least 3 years to graduate level ,so thats about 7 months spent on how much to charge your clients ??!!Id ask for my money back if I were you..

I trained to be a medical herbalist and we did have former doctors on our course ( and indeed were trained in clinical and medical sciences by " real " doctors ). the whole mentality behind naturopathy is so different to orthodox medical training why would anyone wanting to be a doctor even consider it -what healing without drugs - crikey how weird.....And anyone believing in natural health knows there is more to health than the medical route

yes the diaries may be written by former naturopaths but they are still overwrought in the condemnation of supposed practices. Just as a matter of interest if it is all about the con why are you still training? and is it second best for you?

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Hi CarrieD2018 I get very ill with apple cider vinegar. I am now not eating anything today. I ate a boiled egg yesterday and later on some pineapple. About 1/2 hour after I ate the pineapple my stomach was hurting so--bad. I went to the bathroom and had cold sweats to the point I thought I was gonna pass out. Barely made it back to my bed. Today I feel very weak from not eating. I took an omeprazole. I am at a loss as to what to do. Dr.'s can't help. I am praying for healing. Bless you! I am glad you are better.

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I was taken off PPIs due to side effects. I take a small amount of bicarb for any gastric problem as I have reflux. Pineapple is very acidic so go easy on it. Try some toast for now then perhaps start start a bland diet tomorrow . x

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Dairy is not your friend, and all vegetables should be cooked. If you need to build stomach acid, go off of Whole Foods for a week and blend fruits and cooked veggies or make soup...your body isn't absorbing nutrients if you don't have acid. Prilosec will only worsen this. Water with lots of lemon will help. Is your stomach distended? Go off of meat and dairy for a while - give your esophagus and stomach time to heal. Hard boiled eggs, smoked salmo, soft rice, and cooked veggies that are then blended and soups (but NO MSG so you have to make the soup). Up your potassium. The naturopath is right. Research The China Study or Blue Zones. Standard Process makes a supplement that is pure hydrochloric acid - it works for some. Feel better!

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Not being in a position to go private for anything I did a bit of research and a lot of trials and settled on keto. Stopped my severe reflux and chronic indigestion from day 2. Also lost a bit of weight which is always a bonus. Just a suggestion to think about. Good luck

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Hi, it’s so good to hear from people with this ‘rare disease’. I don’t have any nutritional deficiencies other than b12. Folate, Iron, Ferittan and Vitamin D are all normal. I have no symptoms of autoimmune gastritis other than the tumour which is now gone. I don’t really have indigestion, bloating, IBS, heartburn (no acid so I guess no burn). I do get numb hands sometimes... only recently and the neurologist said this is more likely to be carpel tunnel syndrome than B12 related. I’m going for further tests to confirm. Is there anyone like me? The only thing I have noticed is that if I have a tummy bug and nothing in my stomach when I vomit nothing at all comes out. My gastroenterologist calls me fascinating. ... I don’t think he means that in a good way. Can I ever recover my stomach acid if I have pa antibodies attacking the cells that make stomach acid? Is lime juice and lemon juice a better alternative to apple cider vinegar? Lshorty what went wrong with apple cider vinegar? I just have so many questions on this rare disease where there is little to no information and doctors don’t seem to know much about. Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond to my post. Carrie

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The symptoms of heartburn can also arise from too low stomach acid. The bile can back up into the stomach and irritate from alkaline.

Where was your tumor?

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If you have no stomach acid , then your stomach flora will be upset . Either eat some fermented food eg Organic raw sauerkraut ,or take a probiotic capsule like Bio-kult which will help your stomach flora back to normality . You need stomach acid to help absorb vitamins and minerals , so in its absence , take a daily multivitamin and mineral tablet .

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So I don’t think apple cider vinegar is right for me... my throat is sore! Back to diluted lime juice... a recommendation from this forum. I take, and have taken a probiotic for years. I’m taking symprove at the moment on the recommendation of members of this forum. I’ve also taken a multi vitamin for years which may be the reason I don’t have other deficiencies. I wish there was more info on how to eat with this disease!

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I found Symprove first -rate . Unfortunately expensive .

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The pharmacist Isabella Wentz recommend zink and huge doses of B1 (600 mg) to boost the production of stomach acid. It works for me some of the time. When it doesn't, I take digestive enzymes with betaine hcl. I am well most of the time....

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Hi BrigitteG, do you have pa antibodies too? This is the first I have heard that this can be improved! Thanks for getting back to me... take everyone’s points re natural vs medical docs.

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I had (loads of) parietal cell antibodies when tested.

Coffee should not be bad, actually I have allways heard it is bad when you have too much stomach acid, so ....? And I don't think eating only boiled vegetables for the rest of your life is the solution. I have some bad days once in a while, and on those days I have light meals, and take the tablets with digestive enzymes and hcl acid at meals, and the rest of the time I'm fine. Had a lot of trouble before, incl reflux and feeling horrible, so I'm happy 😊 - I think you have to figure out what works for you! Good luck!

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Hi CarrieD2018,

I have been basically been doing this - sugar free, dairy free, grain free, no coffee (no tea too). I came to it of my own accord after realising these things upset my stomach. Diary - I use almond milk in turmeric lattes, coconut yoghurt. Sugar was not hard although I do still have a bit of chocolate. I can occasionally indulge. I cannot deal with alchohol and any more than the occasional glass of method traditional french champagne I suffer the next day. I also try to eat a lot of salad, with a wide variety of raw vegetables as I feel the raw food helps my enzymes. I can cope with meat and fish, but not late in the day, and I eat these according to how my body is feeling. I have a bit of goats milk feta. I have had all the symptoms of B12 deficiency, which last year escalated to extreme tiredness and brain fog, but my parietal cell test came back normal. My serum B12 was about 300, my doc gave me monthly injections which did help, then when my bloods went up to 1029 she wouldn't give me any more. Then I started to think, how could I improve my stomach, and started the above. It has helped enormously with my energy and mental clarity.

I have also been following the FODMAP diet, which works for me.

I recently had a hair analysis which showed I had high mercury levels. High mercury has been linked to B12 deficiency, but at this stage I am waiting to find out how. I too have been advised to remove my mercury amalgams, which I have started on an as needs basis, but am also going to try a homeopathic detox for heavy metals.

So the only difference to your advice that I follow is raw vegetables. Did your naturopath say no meat or fish?

The diet might seem restrictive but when I go off it I notice immediately or the next day. I enjoy sweet baked potatoes with salad, or ratatouille with salad, etc. I definitely think that cane sugar is a recent introduction to our western diet, asian cultures survive quite happily without dairy.

I am 63 years old but wish I had known this decades ago.

All the best

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I understand that in traditional french wine making they add a wheat flour mix to grab and precipitate out sediment and clarify the wine. This leaves gluten in the wine for you to drink. Not certain if this is also true for the traditionally made champagne.

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Interesting thanks.

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Also I have tried the apple cider vinegar, it helps but I haven't kept it up

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Just an update everyone. I mentioned this diet to my doctor today and she said it was baloney and potentially dangerous... she said the only one who can give you diet advice is a dietitian who studied this as a degree course for years... just sharing info rather than my opinion. Have a super weekend 😀 Carrie D

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well doctors spend about 4 hours studying nutrition.... and state registered dieticians are hide bound by the orthodox medical guidelines so no impartiality there .there plenty of nutritionists and naturopaths who are trained to degree level just not in the pocket of big pharma ( ie doctors ).

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Thanks for the update CarrieD2018. Your doctor is right...Dieticians are required to train to at least degree level.

In the UK there is no guarantee that others offering dietary advice have any level of training...and some of the so-called training on offer is dubious, so it's often difficult to determine exactly what level of training and expertise other dietary advisors have.

Hope you find something that works for you.

👍

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Thanks Foggyme and alchemica for your responses. I have an appointment booked with a dietitian in March (educated to degree level I checked) to see what she says about treatment of this ‘no stomach acid’ condition. I’ll update this thread after the appointment. I don’t really know what to believe.. but I do know to listen to my own instincts about what works for my body. I think It’s good to share info too. People can use information to help form their own opinions on what works for them... personalized health care. Who knows she may agree with no grain, no dairy, no sugar, very little caffeine and alcohol or she may say this is too restrictive! I am worried I’ll lose a lot of weight following the naturopath diet as the most I can afford to lose is half a stone and the doctor said I’ll lose three stone on this diet. When I had gestational diabetes when I was pregnant I had to go to a dietitian to stop myself from losing weight as I was losing 200 grams a day on a restrictive diet. She got my weight to stabilse so I wasn’t losing weight anymore (even thought I didn’t gain a solidarity pound from the time I was 20 weeks). I was back in an 8 to 10 jeans the day after I had my little girl. So suppose I’m just trying to find a solution that works for my condition, my overall health and my lifestyle. This forum is an invaluable resource and thanks everyone for sharing your experiences 😀

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Good luck with the dietician CarrieD2018. And yes, I agree, too much weight loss on an unnecessarily strict diet would not be good for anyone who struggles to keep their weight up.

Be very interested to hear how you get on.

Might be better to put up a new post with an update as any addition to this post won't be spotted by forum members because the post will be quite old by then (the only folks who will see it are those who may have followed your original post...or those you specifically reply to in this thread - and you can only do those sort of replies one at a time).

Will look out for your next post 😉😀.

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