B12 Absorption problem ?

[Ryaan]

If you have an absorbtion problem with B12 do sublinguals or sprays work. If so.....how ?

Do they bypass your stomach/digestive system ?

[wedgewood]

I have been a member of PAS for 2 years and read postings on a daily basis . I hear of people who do get benefit from sublingual B12 lozenges and nasal sprays , but just as many who don't ( I'm one of them ) I have found that I only benefit from injections . Yes when the sub-linguals and sprays work , they are by-passing the stomach . So it's always worth a try . But they are quite expensive compared to self-injection, which ,if you buy everything in bulk (100 of everything at a time ) costs about £1:00 a shot .

[MarsBarKid in reply to wedgewood]

I never see anyone in UK say pill supplement for B12.

I myself take a 1000mcg pill which is placed under tongue and let dissolve daily. GP recently did B12 test for me and it came out high, so he said could drop back to 3 times a week. I'm glad I can get a pill as dont like needles.

[Ryaan in reply to MarsBarKid]

Were you told you by your GP that had an absorption problem?

(But you decided to try a 1000mcg pill and it worked ?)

Did you have low B12 ?, and how long did you take take the 1000mcg pills before tested and was high.

Do you know how high.

Thanks

[MarsBarKid in reply to Ryaan]

Just logged in - took B12 supplements for around 3 years or more before GP did test. Had leg pain and got told on US forum to try B12 and googled it and found Thompson of Australia make it. 1000mcg.

I tried taking it 3 times a week but felt things not right so back on daily. Told doc he didnt say its a problem. HIgh was 932.

[matty220]

I've been taking sublingual B12 for about a year now and after about 2 months I felt 10 years younger. My B12 had gone from 284 to 1100! I tried to reduce from the 5000mg to the 1000mg but got a return of symptoms so I stick with the 5000mg knowing that I can't over dose. I got a pack of 2 x 60 sublingual tablets (Jarrow) for £27 so that works out at 23p per day - if my maths is right!

[Ryaan in reply to matty220]

That's all good !, but my point is do you have or have been told by gp by tests carried out that you have an absorption problem. That you have to have injections.

But you tried high strength sublinguals and they worked regardless of being told you can't absorb B12 ???

My gp told me I have to have injections for life ! So that's what I'm trying to find out whether he can be wrong and if sublinguals could actually work ?

Thanks

[matty220 in reply to Ryaan]

I was actually told that my B12 was 'fine' with a result of 284 in a range of 190-900. My GP wasn't interested in the B12 result. I self treat after readin loads of info on this site and posting loads of questions. I take a PPI (proton pump inhibitor) plus I'm over 60 so that is 2 factors which will probably affect my ability to absorb B12.

I think of GPs now as triage. They are there to send is in the right direction to specialists but they can't know everything and it's up to us to be the CEO of our own health.

[Ryaan in reply to matty220]

CEO yes, definitely!

I've heard that term in Movies.

"CEO of the company"

I have to self diagnose, treat, tell my doctor what tests to do, how much injections I need and more. They're not bothered to find cause or treat properly. It's like I'm the doctor and he's the patient.

( Iguess I am CEO)

Have to google what it means.

[Gambit62 Administrator]

on average 1% of B12 is absorbed outside the ileum so if the ileum is compromised then it is possible that flooding the gut with really high levels of B12 may work.

the theory with sublinguals - tablets and sprays - is that some is absorbed through the membranes in the mouth though the evidence is that this is still pretty low as the average absorption for sublinguals is only just better than oral.

nasal sprays are again, in theory, absorbed in part through membranes in the nose - but again that is quite low - they tend to average around 3% take up to the blood.

I find nasal sprays work very well for me and sublinguals can be affective but they don't work for everyone - the main advantage for me is the ability to mix and match the types of cobalamin I am taking - methyl works well for me with some symptoms but does nothing for others.

as wedgewood says - all you can do is try and see

[Ruby4000 in reply to Gambit62]

hi so do you take more than one type of b12 on the same days? im currently trying some cyano tablets prescribed but i break them up and dissolve a bit in my mouth (not sure if theres a difference of doing that with a tablet or taking sublingual lozenges ) . i started this a few weeks ago and it looked on my latest blood test as though the level has risen by about 100 so makes me think i am absorbing some. ive also got some methyl tabs to try but not done that yet. (bit wary as felt really ill when i tried a methyl one in a spray in past)

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to Ruby4000]

some people do find that methyl can make them feel quite unwell - all you can do is try and see what works for you.

[Ryaan in reply to Gambit62]

Thanks

I get it.

But it's a long trial.(Do you introduce one thing at a time for several weeks ?)

In the past I made a mistake of introducing 2 things at one time. (A multivitamin 'Wellman', which has 50mg Siberian Gindeng in it, and high dose Iron (20mg).

I had some bad side effects. Awful breathing problems, palpitations, very bad stomach pain and IBS like symptoms.

I stopped both after 3 days of taking them. I don't know what caused what. (Actually was 3 things ' Wellman Sport'. 'Iron 20mg' and 'Vit D3 1000'.

I'm still recovering from some of the symptoms, but I'm afraid to re-introduce any 1 one of them.

Any advice ?

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to Ryaan]

think you have answered your own question

[seamail57]

Hi, I've been using Jarrow Methylcobalamine 5000 mcg tablets taken sub-lingually in combination with a Better You B12 oral spray for over a year now. It's transformed my life! All the symptoms I had, memory problems, stumbling over words, cold hands, poor coordination, balance problems and breathlessness have now gone! Yet according to GP my B12 levels (238) were in range and I needed no treatment!

[Ruby4000 in reply to seamail57]

this is really encouraging. i started trying some cyano tablets few weeks ago, think reading all these im goign to try methyl one soon too and maybe evne up dose. i feel a bit better but im unsure if its the b12 or the iron ive recently started taking too. the b12 spray made me feel really not well though so will try a different brand of tablet and start with tiny bits i think. interesting to see how people really responding to this. i have all those similar symptoms too. but b12 is classed in range .

[Ryaan in reply to Ruby4000]

'In range' can mean on the low side. If you have symptoms then go should be treating your symptoms not looking at 'in range', as its in low range and people do get symptoms within range of its on the low side.

[Ryaan in reply to seamail57]

Yes, I'm glad it helped you, but I don't think you had an absorption problem ?

That was my main point in the question. "Does it work for people who have been told by gp that they have an absorbtion problem with B12".

[Ruby4000 in reply to Ryaan]

yes i hope others can help. i do suspect i have absorption problem. but time will tell more if i absorb the tablets enough. i do have lots of gut problems. so do suspect.

[Ryaan in reply to Ruby4000]

Can I ask what kind of gut problems.

I had a lot of IBS symptoms, feeling VERY full, bloating, excess wind/gas and no tablet has ever helped. Since I been on B12 injections that has really helped a lot. I'm able to eat much better compared to before. The injections really help your entire digestive system. (I have 1 injection every 2 weeks, (self inject).

(I don't know if this can help you depending on what gut problems you have, but I just wanted to share)

Best wishes

[matty220 in reply to Ryaan]

Nothing to do with B12, but years ago I stopped having milk because I'd read it could aggravate arthritis, which I suffer from. It didn't make any difference to my arthritis but all the bloating and excess wind/gas (like you describe) just disappeared - and I wasn't looking for that. I find now that I can eat cheese and yogurt (because apparently the lactose in those is broken down during the making process) but I have my drinks black and I don't touch ice cream, cream or any sauces with milk in. Worth a try?

[seamail57]

The trouble with the cyanocobalamin form of B12 (as favoured by your doctor probably), is that it is usually prescribed with a 50mcg dose. You might as well be taking Smarties for all the good these will do you. Many doctors just don't seem to understand B12 deficiency at alll ....

[Ryaan in reply to seamail57]

You're right. Doctors need to be more informed.

It can lead to very serious problems, and it's a very simple, easy to treat/cure and cost effective yet they don't seem to care or know much.

I wish someone should inform all Gp's of the seriousness and deadly health complications this very cheap, easy to treat and unecassary suffering this B12 problem is.

They will save a lot of money and lives and undue suffering from low B12, and the many diseases which stem from this !, and MANY are misdiagnosed and undetected and have to live a miserable life.

A £1 injection !

Why have they not been told !

[Frodo in reply to Ryaan]

Ryaan "A £1 injection" I agree with you. As I understand it B12 injections were much more widely available in the past and the illness was better understood, but treatment was reduced in a cost cutting exercise in the 1970s and 1980s.

If you look at how many people post on here every day, and think that this must be a tiny fraction of those who actually are B12 deficient but haven't found this site, this is the tip of the iceberg. So if you multiply the £1 injection (plus the nurse's time and the associated tests and the costs of those, and the current shortage of nurses and appointments) by a million, say, there you have one possible answer. I don't know if that's the reason, I'm just speculating.

If you present as very, very ill, AND you have a macrocytosis in your blood tests, then they will consider you may have Pernicious Anaemia as it is still mostly seen as anaemia rather than a disorder which can present with neurological and other symptoms first. In the NICE guidelines they specifically tell doctors not to test for B12 deficiency in people who appear to have ME/CFS unless they have macrocytosis. Yet Dr Myhill, a private ME/CFS specialist, finds many people with chronic fatigue do respond positively to B12 injections.

[Ryaan in reply to Frodo]

That's why I self inject. There is a possibility, your speculation could be correct.

But....when I started to have problems, they done blood tests other than B12 malabsorption. tests, sent me to physiotherapy, had a scan (MRI I think), gave me strong painkillers monthly (Gabapentim), and were now considering some other therapy, Hydro I think.....That's a big cost and most of that I didn't need.

I think it's not straightforward to detect even for GP's.

Only if GP's were more informed, and aware that these are B12 deficiency symptoms.

But I understand what you mean. It Could be right.

Thanks

[toph]

If you decide to go down the oral supplementation route for B12 make sure you get the correct capsules. What you need to do is get the B12 into your bloodstream so the capsules if you swallow them they go straight into the stomach are not very useful as the hydrochloric acid in your stomach will render the B12 unusable. My advice to you is use the same methylcobalamin capsules I use, they are 1000 micrograms. what you need to do is try and limit the amount of the capsule after it is dissolved in your saliva from getting into your stomach and you need to get it into your bloodstream . The capsules are made by Nu U nutrition. I have been taking them for well over a year and they are a good alternative to injections full stop I take them because I have not been diagnosed with B12 deficiency but I know I am deficient because I take up to 5 1000 micrograms capsules a day full stop I hope this helps you but be careful and don't buy the wrong capsules

[Ryaan in reply to toph]

You mean buy Sublinguals even if you have absorption problem in your stomach ?

[BadHare]

It's absorbed through the lining of the mouth, rather than the ileum.

I had success with 5000mcg sublinguals, & got my B12 up from the low end of the range to the top. Just dropped down to 1000mcg, & my symptoms have recurred.

[lilymg]

B12 can be absorbed through the skin via B12 patches that you can get from popular online sites..also B12 spray which you spray into your mouth or under your tongue...they absorb through the skin and bypass your stomach and go straight into your blood stream...however, if there is a medical reason why you are B12 deficient (get a blood test from your doc to check)..then you can have B12 injections usually every 3 months....hope this helps