Study: Probiotics mixture increases butyr... - Cure Parkinson's

Cure Parkinson's

25,550 members26,870 posts

Study: Probiotics mixture increases butyrate, and subsequently rescues the nigral dopaminergic neurons...

asecondforever profile image
13 Replies

Haven't seen this one posted here. For those interested in probiotics, this might provide at least a hint regarding one particular strain worth trying. Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG is widely available (e.g., in Culturelle) and is one of the most studied strains.

Does anyone know of other specific strains that stand out as promising for PD?

Abstract

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

Full paper

espace.library.uq.edu.au/vi...

Written by
asecondforever profile image
asecondforever
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
Read more about...
13 Replies
MBAnderson profile image
MBAnderson

Good information. Which probiotic do you take?

asecondforever profile image
asecondforever in reply to MBAnderson

Well, currently, influenced by that study, I'm taking one capsule (15 billion CFU) of Culturelle twice per day. Also trying to increase my bifidobacteria since, in some studies, those seem to be low in PWP. But there's at least one study (from Germany I believe) in which they were high. So that one is really just a shot in the dark. Jarrow makes a probiotic called "Bifidus Balance," with four bifido strains and no others, though they currently seem to be having supply problems.

A couple of years before my first clear PD symptom (slight tremor in one hand) I developed post-infectious IBS as a result of a bout of food poisoning or possibly some bad water on a backcountry trip. That led me to try lots of different probiotics, for a while at high dosages such as 400 billion CFU/day (e.g., taking VSL3). Later fermented my own kraut for a few years, and switched completely to that. All of it did seem to help me gradually recover from the IBS, but now I have to wonder if the original gut infection, or even the probiotic tinkering with my microbiome could have played some role in my developing PD. That said, I doubt there's typically any real risk from standard dosages of common probiotic supplements. But it's of course possible certain strains may not be good for PD.

MBAnderson profile image
MBAnderson in reply to asecondforever

My feeble understanding of probiotics leads me to believe you need one that is soil based, with at least 50 billion and 15 strains which are alive at the time of consumption, not just the time of manufacture, many of which, but not all, need to be refrigerated and tailored for G.I. issues such as IBS or constipation, etc.

While anything's possible, I doubt tinkering with probiotics contributed to your PD, (unless you were taking a rogue brand (and there are a few of those out there)) because your PD started many years before you developed post infectious IBS.

MBAnderson profile image
MBAnderson in reply to MBAnderson

“The general perception by the public and many health care providers is that if a product is labeled `probiotic,’ it can be safely used for almost any disease. However, research in the past five to 10 years has determined that only specific strains of bacteria or yeast have proof of efficacy. This efficacy is specific for only some strains or mixtures of strains.”

healthunlocked.com/parkinso...

asecondforever profile image
asecondforever in reply to MBAnderson

Yeah, a lot of assumptions about probiotics fly around without much substantiation. When I got to a high enough dose they did get my IBS under control, and I'm thankful for that. Now I tinker with them with PD in mind. But for the average, healthy person I personally don't think they should really be necessary.

Good point that my PD had to have started long before my IBS. I sometimes overlook the long prodromal phase. :-/

One thing I notice about probiotics is that those used in studies are very often species that are not available to the consumer. And if you look at lists of the bacteria in the human gut only a tiny fraction are the familiar species you can buy. Seems the development of probiotics is still in its infancy.

WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo

Probiotic is essentially the opposite of pathogenic. Nice guys that do something useful. The original interest was sparked by the health benefits of yoghurt, which at that time was fermented with L Bulgaricus and S Thermophilous. Both transients not residents. But they create an environment which promotes colonisation by nice guys and is toxic to the bad guys. So yoghurt helped other resident probiotics thrive and a healthy natural diet provided the rest. Good diet including fermented foods is always better than pill supplements. That said I am currently taking Nutrizing. I feed my probiotics with a Mediterranean diet and some prebiotic tablets and my morning organic milled flaxseed mixed with kefir and honey. Organic honey. Home made organic kefir. We make our own yoghurt too. That way you know it's live bacteria

MBAnderson profile image
MBAnderson

So, while perusing old posts about probiotics and the like, I came across this video by Dr. Mark Hyman, who is pretty well-known and well-respected health Guru and his recommendation was VSL3.

youtube.com/watch?v=MM7ctcd...

So, then I find this.

Long story short, they're convicted for false and misleading advertising (this past December,) so they changed the name of the product!! Here's another CEO who needs jail time.

"On November 20, 2018: a Federal jury unanimously found that the sellers of VSL#3 misled the public by engaging in false and misleading advertising. Follow this link to the recent announcement of the U.S. Jury Verdict

On November 15th 2018: it was announced that the VSL#3 product in Canada has been discontinued and is no longer available in Canada.

In early January 2019: major retailers such as Amazon and Costco, and the wholesale distributors McKesson and Cardinal, all blocked ended the sale of VSL#3 branded products in the U.S.

In late January 2019:the first major international treatment guideline dropped the use of the brand name “VSL#3.” The European Society for Clinical Nutrition and Metabolism issued a formal amendment to the ESPEN guideline: Clinical Nutrition in Inflammatory Bowel Disease, which changes the guideline listing name for this formulation from the trademark “VSL#3” to the generic name “De Simone Formulation.” bit.ly/2RrWmOg"

vslverdict.com/?gclid=CjwKC...

asecondforever profile image
asecondforever in reply to MBAnderson

Wow, I hadn't heard that about VSL3. Especially interesting because the company had an image of being more serious, research-oriented, etc. than others. Good find!

MBAnderson profile image
MBAnderson

PS. I went out and bought a scription to Consumer Lab which I had been resisting. 2 years, $69. I'll share.

asecondforever profile image
asecondforever in reply to MBAnderson

Yeah, I got a subscription not long ago too. I think for anyone taking a lot of supplements it's probably a wise investment.

park_bear profile image
park_bear

A reviewer at Amazon said lactobacillus rhamnosus helped with their restless legs

amazon.com/Lactobacillus-Rh...

Of course just one case, could be placebo effect, etc. Be that as it may, I recently experienced a major change in my status apparently due to alteration of gut flora. So, worth a try for me personally.

chartist profile image
chartist

asecondforever,

Some prebiotics act as butyrate and other short chain fatty acid agonists and when combined with probiotics to form synbiotics can be exceptionally useful for health because that combination can increase butyrate production, hydrogen sulfide (H2S) , tregs and the butyrate can act as a histone deacetylase inhibitor (HDAC-i). All of these things work in favor of the patient in many disease states including PD through anti-inflammatory and antioxidant activities in multiple areas of the body including the gut and brain.

Mannitol and xylitol, both polyols, act as prebiotics in the gut and I suspect that is part of the reason why some people respond to mannitol and some don't, because the mannitol needs enough of the proper butyrate producing bacteria in order to create butyrate, but if there is insufficient numbers of these bacteria for the mannitol to interact with then you may not respond. Here is a link to a post that I wrote about these affects of mannitol in conjunction with the right gut bacteria. Other polyols and prebiotics may have similar effects, but I mainly mentioned mannitol because some members have found good results with it while others have not and I thought this could possibly be the reason why. Here is a link to a post I wrote about mannitol as a prebiotic, which I don't see mentioned in other places much :

healthunlocked.com/parkinso...

Somewhere along the way, Gio found a probiotic that had one known butyrate producing bacteria and I believe he may have tested it if I remember correctly. The bacteria that are insufficient or deficient in PD are known and at least several of them are known butyrate producing bacteria.

On a related note, here is a link to a post I wrote about probiotics that sort of intertwines with the mannitol post :

healthunlocked.com/parkinso...

Overall from these, you can see why some groups are focusing on the gut/brain axis in PD and other diseases such as AD. This also increases interest in the Fecal Microbiome Transplants or FMT.

The AD / probiotic study from 2016 which showed positive results in humans is very interesting and you can only wonder what would have happened had they added a prebiotic to the regimen and conducted the study for longer than 12 weeks. Unfortunately there were no followup studies on that one! So sad!

Art

asecondforever profile image
asecondforever in reply to chartist

Thanks Art! Some excellent info there! I'm just now reviewing my supplements in dealing with some fatigue, and those links provide some leads that may help me adjust the probiotics I'm taking. :)

You may also like...

MicroRNA 221 rescues the loss of dopaminergic neurons in a mouse model of Parkinson's disease

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/microRNA-221-rescues-the-loss-of-dopaminergic-in-a-Yao-Zhao/0f

Gastrodin protects dopaminergic neurons via insulin-like pathway in a Parkinson’s disease model

using Gastrodin or Tian Ma?...

Study finds overabundance of opportunistic pathogens in the guts of persons with Parkinson's

this study shows any benefit to taking probiotics or any bacteria strains in particular:...

Dr Matthew Best Prebiotics and Probiotics for Women

Prebiotics and Probiotics for Women has the 4 strains of probiotics that were used in this study...

Researchers discover a potential cause of Parkinson's disease

that specific strains of Desulfovibrio bacteria are likely to cause Parkinson's disease....