Anti-cancer diets

[cathysal]

I have noticed that quite often people recommend following a certain diet or eating certain types of food because they have anti-cancer properties. Does anyone know therefore why these foods or diets are not recommended by our oncologists as part of our treatment?

[harley]

Hi, I went through 6 sessions of carbo/taxol last year and felt I wanted to do what I could do help myself, I bought the Rainbow Diet Book by Chris Woollams, juiced up veges and fruit almost every day and ate the full colour spectrum of fruit and veg, I didnt become a vegetarian but stayed away from dairy products and red meat and felt pretty good throughout, possibly because I had taken ownership of my disease a bit. Apart from anything else, I felt it helped alleviate some of the side effects of chemo. I drew the line at getting involved with any of the more radical herbal remedies because they can be very potent and may affect any of the different types of chemo we get and without full trials you can understand why they dont recommend such. Whilst my oncologist was very pleased at my healthy diet, as you say it was not something they automatically recommended, perhaps they should be. I am currently going through it all again with PPC and again I am following my healthy regime, perhaps i should have kept it going after I got the all clear last year?

Harley

[Hidden]

Hi,

There is a very complicated answer to your question, and books have been written about it; however, the reality is that doctors are trained and experienced only in the giving of medical treatments. They often do not know about wider, whole-person approaches. They work in a culture where they are still seen as to greater or lesser degrees as god-like, and that does not encourage a wider approach. As a profession, there has grown up a culture that does not respect other approaches. There are a few notable individuals who do; but they are not qualified to give advice on better diets, necessarily.

Then there is the huge power of the drug companies that actively resist treatments that do not rely on expensive drugs (as they lose money). These companies still pump a lot of money into incentives to use drug treatments and resist others.

So, the answer is that it is our responsibility in an age when the information is available to us, to do our own research and decide what is best for ourselves depending on our own case and circumstances. I actually prefer my medics to stay out of my private decisions about diet, stress and exercise as it's not their business, but for some, unless a doctor prescribes something it cannot be correct. Doctors are only short sighted humans - just like the rest of us!

Getting cancer widens your perspective on this area of life. Read Dr Servan-Schreiber on the subject - as a medic himself he fully understood the resistance of his colleagues.

Very best wishes,

Isadora.

[AngelaAbell]

Hi Cathysal

I think it does depend on the medic. When I had my first op and treatment in 1998 the surgeon and the ocologist were very clear that i needed a diet high in fruit, veg and fish and a Macmillan nurse recommended consulting the Bristol Centre - now the Penny Brohn - for advice. Last year and this year i have been treated at a different hospital and haven't been offered diet advice although the oncologist is happy to talk about if asked. I would wonder why dieticians are not attached to the oncoloogy teams but I can hear to term 'money' too clearly. Macmillan now do a good job with leaflets about diet and suggestions as to where to go for advice. I guess that the medics need to concentrate on their expertise but need to ensure that patients are given contacts for dietary advice.

All the best

Angela

[MargaretJ in reply to AngelaAbell]

Hi Angela and Harley,

In my view it is a pity dieticians are not involved in hospital catering as they were in my youth. I am diabetic ( steroid induced) and find there is nothing on hospital menus tomfit in wiyh my high fibre, low GI! Low meat high fish, veg and fruit diet. When I was having 24hour chemo sessions I took in my own salads, fruit, sugar free cereal and ginger tea. The staff said they were tempted to pinch it. How I am going to cope with 10 days in hospital next month I don't know. Diet is so important if only for improving general health, which enables us to fight this thing!

[Eleni]

Hi Cathysal

I asked about diet early on after diagnosis. I have the Servan-Schreiber book and also visit the Penny Brohn centre in Bristol both of whom have a lot of advice about diet. My oncologist recommended a balanced diet and I was also given the Macmillan recipe book which I have found useful. I have cut down on dairy and red meat and also avoid smoked foods (used to love smoked mackerel) but other than that, do as recommended. I've always eatne much fruit and vegetables but now do tend to incorporate more pulses than previously. It is a shame that oncology departments do not have dieticians attached but as Angela says, the money won't be there...

Read up what you can and make a decision that is best for you. The worst you can do is to fret about it.

Best wishes

Eleni x

[FlorenceW]

Hi,

I believe that we can do so much ourselves to improve our future (have you read the book 'Anti-Cancer a New Way of Life)....is it a factual book about how we can change many of our habits and really do something about fighting our cancer in day to day way.....through what we eat and drink and how we look after ourselves...ie exercise.

I am also attending something called 'The Healing Journey' in Clapham where the importance of self-healing through meditation/journalling is being taught.

I believe these two things have really changed my perspective on life.

I'm also now attending pilates...because my core is so weak.

These things haven't happened overnight....it has been a journey...but I would really recommend all of the above. It is easy to feel lost, angry and walking in mud, but when you action things and take control you feel so much better and able to cope with the illness.

Hope that helps.

All the best

Florence

[cathysal]

Hi all

Thanks for your replies. I have twice typed a fairly long reply only to have them disappear from the site before I had the chance to press 'submit answer' !!

Anyone know where they might be?

[cathysal]

Sorry I realised that was a pretty silly thing to ask and will now try again!

I just can't get my head around the fact that if it's true that eating ginger, turmeric etc, or not eating red meat, dairy, fat etc has been proven to have a significant result in the prevention of cancer or its treatment then things are completely skewed in favour of people who have access to the internet or the intelligence to look things up for themselves. What about the thousands and thousands of people who are unable to do either.

I also don't understand the cost implications - a simple diet sheet with the above advice handed to each patient (together with the vast reams of paper already given!) would not be difficult and surely would be very cost effective if it worked.

All the diets I've read about give the same advice, a balanced diet, with not too much fat and sugar.

I have read the Servan Schreiber book but am still not convinced - I know he lived a great deal longer than he'd been expected to but he has recently died at a fairly young age and we don't know for how long he'd been having further treatment.

Am I being totally naive in my plan to carry on trying to eat a healthy diet including red meat occasionally, dairy, and controlled amounts of sugar and fat?

I don't know how long I'll be here and think I'd prefer to keep to my philosophy which has always been - a little of what you fancy does you good.

I also had an ilesotomy (stoma) formed during my debulking surgery and in fact eating large amounts of fruit, veg, pulses and grains would do me a great deal of harm.

I so hope I have not offended anyone - that's not my intention - I'm a great believer in live and let live and make choices that suit you.

Best wishes to all from (Sceptical) Cathy. xx

ps - today started second line chemo after a year free and hoping for the same again (or more) after my six chemos!

[MargaretJ in reply to cathysal]

Hi Cathy! You have me worried as I am due to have a further op with probable colostomy so, presumably I will be off pulses, grains and fruit and veg. Does that include smoothies? A diet without fruit and veg will leave me with no options as I do not eat most dairy produce or red meat and strongly dislike sugar and other refined carbs. Ah well, on the positive side I should lose some of that weight.

[Hidden]

Hi Cathy,

I do agree with you, a little of what you fancy does you good and like you I am on my second line chemo, I have neither the energy or wherewithall to chase faddy diets as I feel life is too short to spend my valuable living time researching and worrying about what I have or haven't eaten.( but each to their own ). I think that oncologist have a hard enough job keeping us alive they don't want us to die of malnutrition so stay well away from unproven diet advice. Thank you for your refreshing comment.

Best Wishes Gwyneth xx

[cathysal]

Hi Gwyneth

Thanks for your reply. I sometimes think am I the only person out there feeling as I do which then makes me think - am I totally wrong. So it's nice to hear from someone else with the same viewpoint.

Had my first second line chemo yesterday, still a bit high on the steroids and no nasty side effects have kicked in yet - so fingers crossed!

All the best for the future. Cathy xx

[Hidden]

HI Cathy

Thank you for your reply.I have been frustrated for a long time about this subject, as it does suggest an element of blame on the person with the cancer, another thing I get frustrated about is the word "Positive" as if people who have died weren't positive enough, I feel this because I am by nature an upbeat person but know it is not going to make any difference to my prognosis ( it might help me get through it easier)

I hope everything goes well for you. best wishes Gwyneth xx

[cathysal]

Hi Gwyneth

You and I are definitely on the same wavelength! I too am an upbeat, positive person but feel if one more person says to me, stay positive and you'll get through it, I will get violent with them! Only kidding. I feel like saying, it's a disease - no-one tells someone who has asthma or had a stroke or a heart attack to stay positive and you'll get through it. Rant over! I know they're only trying their best to comfort you but still. Just keep smiling through, a laugh a day keeps the doctor away! - if only.

Cheers. Cathy xx

[Becalm]

Yes, I have been dwelling on thisquestion recently too - hav just completed my 4th line of treatment, this time with caelyx after three previous ones with carboplatin and taxol,in combination. I had my iinitial surgery with follow-up chemo.in 2005 but after three and a half years totally clear the cancer recurred ,hence the series of chemo.with remissions since then.

I have always thought my diet quite a healthy one - including the veg. and fruit and in my late seventies my general health is good. But hearing all the ideas about excluding fats and sugar and adding ginger,etc.,etc. I have begun to feel a bit guilty that I may not be making enough effort to help myself.However my inclination is not to get too tied up in fads. I rather feel that if I did the cancer would have begun to dominate yet another aspect of my life though of course I appreciate that others may feel more in control by managing their diet. That said I have in corporated green tea (and broccoli) into my regular diet. So - I suppose my answer is only to go as far down the road of diet changes as feels positive for you as an individual. The enjoyment of food is in itself enhancing to life.

As regards the comments on being positive - isn't everyone in so far as they can with or without being exhorted to be so?

Thanks to everyone for the generous sharing on this site. Some committed people respond but there are many more of us who just listen (or read rather) and are supported.

[Marianna]

Whilst i was on Chemo i was told about Asparagus. Apparently asparagus has a protein that helps reduce cancers. Now i dont know if it does and there are some reports that are positive about this veg. But i had it every morning and evening all while i was under the chemo. and my CA125 went down to 11 and the last scan could not find anything in the omentum. So what the Hey, i will try anything. It just said to liquidise and take 2 tablespoons morn and evening. But it smells awful and does not taste much better. ( i took it in a glass of water to help). Just thought you might want to know

[TinaWright]

Hi Girls,

My oncologist told me to eat whatever I fancied she told me life was for living , not for diets. I was also concerned about my weight which had already sored by almost 2 stone after treatment., but this did not seem to concern any of the medics. They told me they would only worry if I lost weight for no reason.

Soooooooooo, I decided to think for myself and eat healthy, I make sure I get my 5 a day, I limit my red meat in take, eat more chicken or no meat at all. I have learnt how to embrace fruit and vegetables and ditch the chocolate and sugars. I hate fish so make a lot of veggie meals that are delicious.

I have only just started to lose a steady 1 pound a week but most importantly I am at last starting to FEEL better, I had my surgary one year ago as now 5th November. Most of which has been a numbed blurr.

[TinaWright]

Positive, arghhhhh!

I too want to kick its arse some times.

People say it when they have NOTHING better to say.

We should be allowed to express our feelings sometimes without being told we must be positive, why must we? We can`t feel positive all of the time!

We simply can`t be brave all the time. We should be allowed to grieve for the loss of health, the loss of life style and all the misearable things that go with ill health.

What does that sentence actually mean - be positive? does it mean that we are giving up or falling apart?, not coping?

My version is to allow ourselves to cry when we need to.This is all part of humanity, surely!!!!

If we don`t do this, get angry, cry, feel sorry for our selves then we won`t be able to deal with it face on.

I see the word positive as a force of denial, surely that isn`t at all healthy either?. We sometimes need to face the realityof what is going on + other people can never understand how bad it is, what our chances of cure are etc, so why say the stupid word, when they know nothing at all about us? Because they have NOTHING better to say!!!! Now, I just say yes I am being!! and think stick that where the sun don`t shine, LOL!

We need to hear what an inspiration we are? and how well we are coping? How breave we are?

When someone tells us to be positive they may as well tell us we are not helping our selves!

I had a good friend who was `losing her fight` as people would say, one person said she was giving up - she very sadly died the next day.

Why do people say so and so has lost thier fight?, no one says that if they die from heart disease. Cancer is not our fault, we can only be in control of our own way of thinking. Cancer effects people from all walks of life. Too many people have said to me, " I won`t let it beat me", "I will fight it and win", often the cancer takes over and there is nothing they or their words said can change that fact.

Just allow yourself to be simply YOU! God bless you all, pray hard and live life to the full when you can. Enjoy each day to the full when you are able to and allow yourself healing time with lots of rest when that is needed to. My love to you xx

[bosue in reply to TinaWright]

Tina I'm with you all the way x

[Hidden]

Hi Tina,

What a GREAT post I so agree with you enjoy life to the full, and yes I do pray as God is very much part of my life . God Bless You love Gwyneth xx

[cathysal]

Hi Tina

WELL DONE YOU - you've said it all!! xx

[MargaretJ]

Hi Tina, you do say it all! However I do try to "be positive" because I have a disease I have not become it! I do cry, scream even, but that is my business. What I hate though is people who will not acknowledge that this is a terminal disease and accuse me of "being negative" when I acknowledge that symptoms are returning and I feel unwell. I have been very restrained so far and held my desire to administer black eyes and firm kicks well under control (so far).

[AngelaAbell]

Thank you Tina and others for the common sense about diets and 'being positive'. I have have had friends who were made to feel that their chronic diseases were their fault because of the diets/lifestyle/attitude/ etc, which made them and their consultants very angry. When I had a long remission (13 years) people would tell me it was because i am such a positive person. I always said that I was extremely lucky - I happened to cope with treatment very well and am built like an ox. Now that the cancer has returned for the third time in 2 years does that mean that I have suddenly become a less positive person, or that my healthy diet of years (perhaps a touch too heavy on the alcohol side) has stop keeping me healthy? I belive that eating healthily and enjoying it is respecting your body and soul. Enjoying each day as far as you can makes every day worth living. Giving in to sadness, fear or anger occasionally makes you human.

best wishes to everyone xx

[MEllenM]

After reading all of your comments, I simply can't understand what some people find faddy about a healthy fruit and veg based diet. My hubby was recently diagnosed with Leaukeamia and we have completely changed our approach to diet. Plenty of organic fruit & veg, wild sea caught fish, small amounts of organic lamb and chicken. In just six months we have his count down and in fact he is now on a watch and wait at our own docs and no hopital visits. This afternoon he has baked organic scones for us. Nothing faddy about a baked scone. 100 years ago we didn't have our food sprayed with deadly chemicals or animals bred for food bulked up with hormones etc. We didn't eat the same amount of sugar and our foods weren't processed the same. So I ask who is eating a fad diet, certainly not hubby or me. We are eating the diet that God gave us to eat. As a side benefit my dangerously high blood pressure is also down as I eat the same as hubby. Cancer feeds on sugar which is a known proven fact, why would anyone with this deadly condition encourage it by feeding it. We are both in our 60's, but are determined not to be set in our ways. Our life depends on it. We want many more years yet so that we can see our grandchildren grow up. Healthy eating is NOT a fad, it is you life.

[Gwyn_1 in reply to MEllenM]

Could I suggest you check when the post was written before you write a comment. (You will find the date at the top left hand side)

You are commenting on a post that was written four years ago..

Ths means that some of the people on this thread are no longer with us.

It can be very upsetting for families or friends to read this.

It would be wise to only comment on recent posts.

Whilst I agree with your views on a healthy diet, it is well known that ovarian cancer is not caused through diet, this is an ovarian cancer support forum.

I am sorry to hear about your husband and wish him well.