If anyone has had very serious work problems as a result of having RA and felt no option than to present a case in an Employment Tribunal, and either won or lost, please could ask you for any useful hints and tips from the experience?
From December 16 until Sept 17 I had a terrible time in work, with extremely unsympathetic managers. My health deteriorated and I took long term sick leave until I was offered a different position. I recently discovered how dishonest the individuals are prepared to be, so I now feel there's no choice but to take legal action.
It's daunting but I know I have a strong case. Why else would they resort to lies?
I think I might need to represent myself though, or at least do most of the leg work to put papers together, so anything which you think I need to consider will be useful.
Many thanks
L
23 Replies
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Hi Pole Dark.
I presume that you have spoken to ACAS as they will be able to give you some very clear steps and advise and CAB too.
Good Luck D x
• in reply to
Hi Deeb,
Yes, I need to approach ACAS first to try their conciliation service so should be able to glean useful information re process, timing etc at this stage. This will be good but I believe, until someone has actually gone through the process, they probably won't appreciate all the aspects this kind of hearing requires you to know. It's a bit like my job of being a management accountant, the theory is great but the practice is far more complicated! Can you see what I'm getting at?
L
• in reply to
Oh yes it is personal and it is a mind set you have to go to.
That’s a very difficult situation to be in. I’m sorry to hear of it.
Are you in a Union at all? If not definitely approach CAB, in the first instance.
It is a pressure. I’m a social worker and there are times, particularly at the minute, that I can feel very vulnerable. The buzz word around the office right now, seems to be medical retirement - I’m not there yet and don’t see myself being there but they seem to think they know what’s best sometimes? All based on little understanding of our condition and even less of an understanding With regards disability legislation.
I wish you the very best, going forward . Let us know how you get on.
You are so right about managers not understanding the Equality Act for Disabled employees. Mine didn't know and didn't want to know - I'm sure they felt I was making it all up. It seems to be a very slow evolving awareness and low priority to up skill people.
But, until individuals who have failed to be protected by the Act actually start winning ET cases with a much higher frequency, employers will not change as there's no incentive. It's as though the employer in my case knows that I suffer from fatigue so is happy to take the risk that I wont be able to take my case to ET...…..and ET make no allowances for disability either!
It's shocking how the Act has had a relatively little impact on managerial attitudes.
But this does leave us vulnerable, more so than our able bodied colleagues. We end up becoming the targets in these head count reduction initiatives and, because they can't be open about their intentions it's even harder for us when the decisions being made just don't seem right.
My career has come to an abrupt end, which was never my intention. I'm more able to control my anger over how I've been badly managed but my future loss of income doing what I've trained to do, is still hard to swallow.
I am a union member and they do provide support, but it's very limited. Their focus is pursuing negotiations which will benefit many members, and potentially increase their membership.
My local CAB office will not get involved in any Discrimination cases as the legal aspects are far too complex for their resourcing.
So I'm gradually working myself up to cope with everything myself. If I don't feel confident enough on the day, I'll need to seek professional help.
Thanks for your kind wishes. I'll post an update - but it's a long process!
I am in the UK and still employed by the same employer, but in another part of their business (and in a lovely supportive team).
It did take them 7 months and their corporate legal advisers before agreeing to transfer me away from those managers but even after a year away from them, they are still lying about me to cover up their own mistakes...…..and this affects my HR record too and so any future employment prospects elsewhere, which I can't allow.
Personally, I would be quietly seeking an alternative place of employment. Having been subjected to toxic people (even in voluntary positions), I know firsthand how cruelly it can affect a person with RA.
We have to be sure that any battle we choose to pursue is worth the energy, time and possibly money.
No advice pole-dark but really feel for you, despite being in place for almost 10 years there are still so many places of work where the Equalities Acts tenets are neither made explicit nor adhered to. x
Hi Pole dark- I too had a terrible time at work & I worked for my local council! They said all the right things & said they only wanted to support & help me, but I found myself picked on & pulled up for every little thing & was pulled in for meetings practically on a daily basis with some complaint or other. The stress really affected my health & I found myself having more flare ups & having to take more time off & sometimes unpaid, as I was over my sick leave quota! I felt thoroughly harassed & was even dragged in & accused of "Chinese Whispers" against my boss! How ridiculous is that!? My emails were monitored & I was criticised on content regularly with copies of emails containing supposedly offending text (not) underlined in red ink!! I felt like a naughty schoolgirl who was being bullied. At the same time my husband got sacked from his job over something not his fault, my Grandson, who had a very rare form of Dwarfism (& had been in Birmingham Children's hospital most of his life) died aged 3years old & I had to have an eye operation. Whilst recovering from the operation (+ still grieving my Grandson) I was forced to attend Councelling sessions (if I wanted to keep my job) & then on my return to work ( still grieving) I was told I was being sent for a dicipliniary hearing with the Area Manager. I'm afraid by this time I had no fight left in me & even my union wouldn't help me or attend any meetings with my manager to help defend me. I was being picked on in a bid to get rid of me due to my sick leave & although they were supposed to be an "Equal Opportunities" employer-they didn't want to know. So I gave up the fight & tendered my resignation & retired early on a very small private pension & DLA payments (now PIP). Just as a warning to fellow PIP claimers Be aware: I am about to get my state pension & have been informed that when my next deadline for PIP ends-(unless it's less than 1 year of getting my state pension) I cannot re-apply or renew my PIP payments & they will end.
Good luck with you're Poke fight-Pole dark, give them hell-I wish I had!
It sounds as though your case was much worse than mine! And you had personal events to cope with on top. I'm not surprised you gave up, if only to keep some sense of sanity and health.
Your are so right when you say management say one thing but their actions and decisions just don't match up. I wouldn't have believed the non-sense I've been through unless I actually experienced it - it's just so cruel and really messes with your head. I started to doubt myself and then my confidence to do anything shrank - so then they criticized my lack of self esteem, because I asked for clarification!
So, at the moment I'm at the start of the whole grievance process. I don't expect anything good to come out of the internal process so I need to register with ACAS over the next few days. I fully expect it will be a full ET Case though, so I'm preparing documents for that too as their deadline is fast approaching. It is daunting but I've put enough time between the events and now to feel so much better, and to think clearly about past events. I feel so strongly that this kind of victimization should stop - it is just like being back in the playground with a bunch of bullies.
I'm so glad you escaped, even though it was forced on you. With our condition, it drains our energy and our spirit and makes our bodies hurt even more.....but nobody can see anything!
Have either you or Artfanatic been to Occupational Health? The Council would for sure have Occupational Health that their workers can use and they are usually very good. They can work with your GPs also. Gosh, take care.
I think you should contact your union as they will have a legal team that deal with cases like this and not just the people at work who are about getting members on board. Also highly recommend contacting access to work scheme who will come to your place of work and recomend any alterations which will help you in your role eg chair. Wishing you will with your fight as I have felt first hand and was also moved team, which was a God send xXx
You are absolutely right, my union does have a legal team but they are so reluctant to refer a case as they don't want to risk high court costs. I have discovered that the membership decreased substantially over the last 10 years and their reserves are next to nothing! They attend meetings with me, because of an agreement with management, but that's all.
I've contacted our Access to Work Team and they can't do a thing without an Occupational Health Review, which a manager requests. But I do have a lovely chair and a fantastic electric rising desk, which are essential.
The main issue has been the approach of my managers and their lack of respect. There are so many occasions when they haven't followed their policies and guidance, to my detriment. I have lost so much over the last 2 years and feel they are still laughing at me.
I took an employer to ET in 2000. I was a legal secretary/paralegal and they knew from the start I had RA - I had written it on a form they asked me to complete. The last straw came after I had repeatedly asked to be moved to an office, rather than sitting in a cold (less than 16 degrees at times) and drafty corridor which 2 of the firm's partners tried to call 'a room within a room' - utter nonsense!
I typed out all what I had to say and went to the CAB and a retired teacher assisted me at ET. The hearing was before a panel of 3, a Chairman and two others. The solicitors hired a barrister to rigorously defend - at one point during the hearing, the Chairman asked their barrister to 'cut the waffle Mr. XXXX!' I was nervous to start with, but once it got going (2 days, then 1 day later on for the decision) I quite enjoyed telling them exactly how it was, all in very polite terms of course! I had to sit at a desk to the side and read my Statement to the panel, in front of my ex-employers. Quite satisfying really.
I won and received about £2,300 for damages. They failed to make reasonable adjustment for my disability which (at that time) fell within the meaning of the DDA 1995.
My advice would be to plan meticulously and research the law, so that you are sure you have more than a 50% chance of success. Good luck!
Fantastic news BoneyC! Well done. This has made my day.
Thank you for sharing your brief description of events. Why did they think anybody would put up with working in a corridor, let along an employee with RA? I'm so glad you won. I too need that satisfying feeling!
I'm studying all the ins n outs of the Equality Act and more and hopefully I'll be able to cover all bases. My case is looking extremely good at the moment.
I think I might need to sit in on a few Tribunals, just to get a feel for them. I've been told they are quite formal these day, more like a proper court - so that bit is daunting.
Thanks. They wanted me to sit there, it suited them, so as well as doing my work, I acted as a kind of second receptionist. Clients entered the building from the other end , were shown down the corridors to where I was and sat to wait to be seen by a solicitor. It's a shame nobody ever complained that client's files were visible on my desk. I had worked for them 3 times, they knew me well, could not complain about my work, etc. A partner had left to set up practice on their own, I was asked to move with them, which I did for a number of years, then after having children, I went back to this firm.
The ET room was modern, not that formal, i.e. ordinary desks and chairs, no old wood paneling like a traditional court room and not that large either. At any one time, there were the 3 men on the panel, me, husband, CAB lady, the Defendant and their Barrister, plus 2-3 staff they had brought along as witnesses, they had to read a statement too. They were all people I knew, apart from the panel. The day I read my statement, my CAB lady questioned me on it, to highlight the positive points I was raising, then the Defendant's Barrister cross examined me, to try to discredit, play down etc. Be prepared as they will say anything to discredit you (mud slinging). It certainly opened my eyes as to how solicitors can lie, on oath (you swear on the bible like in court). Also be aware the local press will sit in and it is likely to go in the local press. Fortunately these days, there are less local newspapers, so it probably wont reach as many readers anyway.
The question one of their witnesses was asked was, do you think her RA was made worse by sitting in a cold and drafty corridor? To which they replied yes!
I just wanted to say that I wish you all the very very best,
These people/companies cannot get away with this bullying behaviour, it makes me so Angry, (that's a polite understatement)
I don't know if you have been in touch with a Disability Lawer or not, but this is a number nras gave to me, some time ago when I was having some issues at work, I didn't end up needing to use it, as I got my union involved,
0207 7919800
All the best
X
Hi Pinklamb,
That's really thoughtful of you and very useful information.
I had no idea NRAS could point out specialist lawyers.
As for the Anger - mine is still bubbling but nothing like the level a year ago. I'm embracing mindfulness, when I remember to.
No, you are very welcome, I wished that I didn't need to give you the number, we are not only trying to get through life living with this horrible disease, but have to put up with mindless idiots who have no idea what it's really like, and all the while it's giving you more stress, which does not help our condition!!
I was dismissed finally on ill health a few years ago. I had had enough of being sidelined and although I was very hardworking and very good at my job, I was sometimes wasting my breath explaining to my bosses what was going on with my health and too honest as well. I worked if you can believe this for the NHS in pathology for almost 10 years my health deteriorated quite badly over the last 5 and one of the managers said that they wanted to put me on a bank contract which meant I would only work and get paid when they felt they needed me which wouldn’t be at all, it was cheaper for them to do that but I wasn’t going to give up my contract. That was the final straw I knew I had to leave on my terms and decided that ill health was my best option. I decided to attend the tribunal which was humiliating and I wish I hadn’t gone at all. It’s as though the people who were there had never met me worked with me and totally disrespected me I was gutted. I absolutely loved my job I wish I had spent all my working life there. If it wasn’t for the fact that my health was so poor and my immune system so depleted I would still be there. So I say give the b**gers what they deserve they shouldn’t be able to get away with it. Good luck I’m sure you’ll be fine and get what you hope for. I wish I was in a position to do the same but I was too ill and basically was living on morphine because my RA was so out of control I needed all my energy to get through each day and wasn’t able to fight.
Hi Leics,
That sounds awful....how on earth can they get away with it!
I'm so annoyed for you. On the one hand the government is telling us that being in work is good for our health but, when we are in work, they target us to make us leave.
They really don't want to know about how difficult we find work and just daily living - it all comes down to picking out the weakest in the pack and bullying them until we break. Basic animal behaviour at the end of the day!
But, with all that experience you must have been extremely competent at work and highly respected when you didn't have health issues. It's just such a waste of talent too.
I intend to do my best at the Tribunal. Somehow, I doubt it'll get that far though, as most strong cases seem to settle before that stage. And I'm gradually becoming an expert in disability discrimination law - more so than my union colleagues at work.
And, like you, I loved my work and still want to get back to it, when all this is done n dusted.
Many thanks for giving me your experience and encouragement.
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