I just read that gut bacteria can cause RA and that it could come from milk and beef. Are any of you on dairy free or beef free diets?

[BonnieT]

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

[helixhelix]

There is a lot of interesting research about the involvement of the digestive system. Hopefully in years to come it will help identify ways of preventing RA as well as managing it. And it seems there are loads of different things that can set off RA in susceptible people.

However, once RA is triggered then there's no reversing it. When I was first diagnosed I tried out altering the food I eat and it made no difference to the RA. (Although I did then loose weight, and that made a big difference, as did sticking to a good general diet). And

For some people some foods do make a difference to daily symptoms, but not for most.

But what actually worries me most is whether this sort of thing will increase antibiotic use in animals, rather than encourage better welfare standards of animals.

[BonnieT in reply to helixhelix]

Thank you, Helix. Lots of pain today. Keep hoping something will mean an answer.

[Simba1992]

What triggers RA in different individuals is a million dollar question. The role of the bacteria found in milk and beef in Chrons disease as in 40% of RA patients ( in the study) with the same gene mutation may be a factor as it has been shown in Chrons where treatment with antibiotica has in fact had a significant effect on the illness. As for drinking milk and eating beef, the funny thing is that these are said to have an inflammatory effect on RA and many have because of this eliminated these from their diets (?).

Can eliminating milk and beef have an effect on once triggered RA? To me the answer is not entirely straight forward as of yet, more research is needed. If the MAP bacteria is involved, with its production of endotoxins that have an effect on the gut lining, letting through bacteria into the blood stream then taking antibiotica could stop this process by eliminating MAP (?). By taking antibiotica in RA this may (?) get ridd of the bacteria and at least decrease symptoms in those who have MAP. If the gut is heald and endotoxins gone then it would sound only logical to keep away from milk and beef, eliminating the risk of new contamanation by the bacteria. (?) Sorry got a bit carried away, such exciting stuff🤓x Simba

[BonnieT in reply to Simba1992]

Thanks, Simba. It’s such a puzzle. I hope someone someday fits the pieces together.

[Ridgewaytwenty in reply to Simba1992]

This is interesting as I received intravenous antibiotics in hospital last summer for 3 months as I had strep b infection caused by Cimzia. I had to stop all RA drugs immediately but the curious thing is I had NO joint pain, swelling etc during the whole 3 months. My RA symptoms returned with a vengeance 4 days after stopping the antibiotics.

[Simba1992 in reply to Ridgewaytwenty]

So many have had this experience. I did read about a study in Japan I think where antibiotic treatment on 12 women had significantly good results.Do you remember what antibiotics you were on? It cannot be denied eather that Dr.Brown treated a huge number of RA patients successfully with Minocykline. Many are still using this treatment that is said to work for 60%. Dr.Browns findings were belittled, and still are but the possible use of antibiotics has again surfaced .Will be interesting to see where it goes.

[Ridgewaytwenty in reply to Simba1992]

I was given a few different antibiotics as the hospital were having trouble killing the bacteria. I had vancomycin to start with, then meropenem, gentamicin, Terramycin and finally linezolid which I took for 6 weeks.

[Simba1992 in reply to Ridgewaytwenty]

Here some reading on antibiotic treatment.

healthline.com/health/rheum...

[Hidden in reply to Ridgewaytwenty]

I agree with Simba and I'm not anti-antibiotics, or RA meds and just wanted to add there's a lot of info out there about improving digestion/absorbtion through balancing the gut biome. Think there's something to the pre and probiotics! Might also see beef and dairy sensitivity due to inability to break down certain proteins- lactos/casein. Also, years ago I worked at a preschool and would catch the occasional cold...I felt great! RA symptoms would subside as if my immune system had something better to do.

[BonnieT in reply to Hidden]

When I would tell my son my pain was all gone while I was sick, he said it was because my system had something else to work on. So true. That was years ago. I wasn’t diagnosed back then. Doctors would say something’s working on your autoimmune but we can’t define it. I’m glad I finally found my rheumy.

[nablur]

You know, I read something like that too. About milk or meat. I do know that no one even considered ra with me until I had an emergency partial colectomy after bad diverticulitis and becoming septic I think anytime they into your insides anything is possible. I’ve had neck, back, arm surgeries and knee, but once hey got into my gut everything changed after.

[BonnieT in reply to nablur]

I hope antibiotics helped you through. I had a series of six surgeries that came out of nowhere. Makes me wonder if RA was the underlying cause.

[HappykindaGal]

I think it's different for everyone. I work with a nutritionist/PT (not much PT as disease is active currently). He's done lots of research on RA plus the Meds that I'm taking. I've totally changed my diet - has it reduced the RA, not a jot. Am I losing weight - oh yes! I also have a number of osteo clients and they all have suggested different and often conflicting things. One says it's to do with the gut and eliminate dairy, another says that's a load of nonsense! In the end, do what works for you. The only thing I do know that flares mine is the MSG in chinese takeaway, so cook my own now.

My colleague has had Crohns for over 30 years and dairy makes no difference to her at all.

What all of the medics say (my business is working with medics), is that a natural diet is the way to go. Quit the processed stuff and when you do fancy the odd donut, it won't do any harm. I'm going with that!

[BonnieT in reply to HappykindaGal]

I have never been good in the kitchen. A cook I’m not. But I’ve got to change.

[Simba1992]

Diversity in food also minimizes the not so good effects of certain foods, I think. An other thing if your really have noticed pain and symptoms after eating specific foods. B eliminating too vigorously some foods you do in time build up a sensitivity. If the risk of getting a bacteria from milk and beef is something that makes a difference in RA, that is something else. If you can get rid of this bacteria by taking antibiotics, which seems to be the case in Chrons, that's good news. Can this be applied to RA remains to be seen. I think I will try anyways if antibiotic treatment on me makes a difference.

[Rheumagal]

I’m dairy and beef free along with a lot of other things. It makes sense that food will affect or contribute to autoimmune disease. RA is an autoimmune disease so our immune system is directly affected. We have approx 70% of our immune system in our gut . So what we eat definitely has an impact.

[BonnieT in reply to Rheumagal]

Thank you. I have to change my diet.