Helminths and RA

[StormySeas]

Anyone know of any success with the use of helminths to treat RA? I've read about a few cases but I know there is a larger body of evidence with Crohn's and asthma - where it has been quite successful. Anyone on here explored it?

[helixhelix]

Don't they cause diseases not cure them? Seems rather evilly ironic if something that kills so many people in developing countries is used to help people in first world ones?

[StormySeas in reply to helixhelix]

It does seem ironic and the very concept feels counter intuitive, although there is now a growing body of evidence which shows it can effectively treat a range of allergies and AI conditions. I haven't seen any studies with RA yet, although I think Nottingham University conducted a trial a year or so ago.

[nomoreheels]

Nothing concrete, I'm not sure until an oral (tablet) form is developed there'll be too many takers, some are very squeamish about parasites running through their body! You realise it would only be a suppressant, not a cure? So, as we have numerous alternatives I would think this would be reserved until all have been explored, for the time being anyhow. Good to think it could possibly be another arrow in the quiver though.

What I find interesting, as an aside, is they're thinking that it's a possibility the greater incidence of the use of antibacterial agents are making us too 'clean'. This means, they think, that the chances of us being open to catching nasties are higher & one reason autoimmune diseases on the rise. This makes some sense when it's understood that in developing countries the incidence of autoimmune diseases is the complete opposite. Certainly something to ponder on.

[StormySeas]

Yes, it's a treatment, not a cure. Whilst the incidence of AI, allergic and inflammatory conditions has increased hugely in developed countries over the last 100 years, they are still much less common in areas where helminths are prevalent.

The idea of reintroducing them to patients who develop these conditions is not new - and there is now quite a body of evidence that shows they can deactivate certain immune-system cells and reduce inflammation.

The principle is that we've grown up with pathogens and microorganisms and that they modify and regulate our immune system, protecting us from the inappropriate immunological responses which result in chronic inflammation. To me it sounds plausible, and potentially very interesting...

[helixhelix in reply to StormySeas]

I'm always slightly cautious about reports of low levels of RA in developing countries as generally there are no rheumatologists to diagnose these sorts of diseases. From traveling in various places I recall seeing lots of older people with joint deformities, so maybe they just suffer?

Whether I could bring myself to accept this as a treatment is another matter! I recall suzannedale saying she'd eat used cat litter if it helped - heleminths may be several steps beyond that...

[StormySeas in reply to helixhelix]

Yes, those were exactly my thoughts about the incidence of this disease in developing countries - although I believe it is well documented now.

Helminths do sound scary at first but they're used in very small controlled doses and are considered quite benign - a bit like using probiotics. They actually can't reproduce in the body so all the frightening scenarios that come to mind are very unlikely!

I think they will be used in Western Medicine in a few years. There is growing interest in this field of medicine to treat diseases that do not respond well to conventional treatment and where the toxic side-effects (and cost) of drugs are problems in themselves.

There is a huge world-wide community of people using privately-purchased helminths to treat a range of serious conditions. I've read enough to satisfy myself that the inherent risks are actually much lower than those associated with the drugs I currently take, but my concern is that most of the trials and reported success-stories seem to have been with other inflammatory conditions.

[ITYFIALMCTT]

Google Scholar has links to a number of interesting albeit squirm-inducing papers on worms and auto-immune diseases (I limited it to helminth and arthritis). scholar.google.co.uk/schola...

From a Public Health standpoint, some of the papers discuss worms that have the sort of lifecycle that means that humans don't readily transmit them to others.

Hmm.

[StormySeas in reply to ITYFIALMCTT]

Thanks for that link - I hadn't read that one.

They're very small inoculations and the helminths can't reproduce inside the body, so there is no danger of the colony increasing (in fact you need regular top-ups to keep it stable) or passing them on to anyone else!

The idea does sound scary to start with, but by the time you've read round the subject a little you see that most of your initial fears don't actually apply.

Here's a link to the site that John Scott set up.

groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups...

[Beverley-NRAS]

We did an article on this in one of our magazines:

nras.org.uk/molecule-in-par...

I think a tablet would be much more enticing than a worm!!!

Beverley

[StormySeas in reply to Beverley-NRAS]

Thanks Beverley! I agree, they don't sound enticing - but the thought of a new treatment that works does!