CKD Stage 4 now Stage 5

[Cooperdog60]

Hi there, I had a terrible time with excruciating gout, about 5 weeks ago, in my kneecap. The time before that was about 9 months ago which started in my big toe on my left foot. On my last visit to the Nephrologist I was told that my gfr was now at 14. Twelve months ago it was 26. I am hoping now that the decline has something to do with the gout. However, I am now being assessed for a transplant, but hoping that my gfr will maybe increase now that my uric acid levels are normal and the gout has cleared out. Does anyone else have problems with gout. I was diagnosed with Glomleronephritis 35 years ago.

[Xcskirunride]

Hi, I do not have gout but do have high uric acid and my Dr. Prescribed baking soda tablets. They seem to help and when I'm on them, my gfr declines at a slower rate. Curious if you are taking them also..

[Cooperdog60 in reply to Xcskirunride]

Hi Xcskirunride, Thank you for your reply. No I'm not taking soda tablets, but it might be worth asking my Consultant about them when I see him in April. I have been taking Allupurinol for 9 month, which has allowed my uric acid level to be normal. However somehow the gout crept into my knee.

[rabbit01]

Hello, I am at stage 5 with 10% eGFR. I too have gout which came on in October last year when my eGFR went to about 12% so I can empathise with you as I know how painful and debilitating it is. I don’t know that your eGFR will pick up even if the gout has subsided that certainly have not been my experience. I think it more a case of the low eGFR causing the gout rather than the other way around. What I can say is that eating cherries (even tinned) and drinking cherry juice had a huge improvement on my gout as has a spoon full of apple cider vinegar in warm water. My kidneys are as bad as ever but the gout is hardly noticeable. All the swelling and redness disappeared within a week of taking it.

[Cooperdog60 in reply to rabbit01]

Thank you rabbit01, I was hoping that it was the gout that caused the decline. I tend to agree with you about the low egfr causing the gout tho. I am eating cherries as I am replying to you but haven't tried apple cider vinegar, but will do. Thank you for the information you have given to me and I wish you well in the future.

[rabbit01 in reply to Cooperdog60]

Pleased you have got your cherries. Well I hope they work for you as they did for me. If not then try a drop of apple cider vinegar (ACV) twice a day in a glass of warm water with some lemon juice to take the taste away. I know how painful gout is and mine came on almost overnight but as I say I managed to get rid of it within week of starting the cherries and ACV.

[Cooperdog60 in reply to rabbit01]

I will definitely try the apple cider vinegar rabbit01. Yes gout is so painful and I don't want it again. Thank you for the advice.

[GAL14 in reply to Cooperdog60]

My nephrologist put me on allpurinal that I take each morning to prevent gout flair ups

[BlueLe in reply to GAL14]

how much Allopurinal. I am at 100mg but still got one flare up recently.

Has anyone tried Tart Cherry extract. The bottle says 9600mg, but there is no nutritional information. There was one article where someone had a bad impact on kidneys but that person was taking this regularly.

[Bassetmommer NKF Ambassador]

HI Cooperdog,

I was surprised to learn that "about 40% of patients with gout have CKD."

I do not have gout in the normal sense. I have psoriatic arthritis, which often is thought to be gout. I have similar symptoms as gout like painful joints and redness. Another similarity is very high uric acid. I had uric acid kidney stones. I take a solution called sodium citrate ever night and have brought down my acid levels to normal. It is the same principal as the baking soda, which I could not tolerate.

Be careful with taking something without check with your doctor. Cherries are lovely for helping with uric acid, but they also have high potassium and sugar.

You said you are on allopurinol, as am I. Be careful with what you eat as there is a lot out there than can cause a flare of gout. Also have a review done of any medications to see if any are also causing your flare.

Good luck and let us know how your are doing.

kidney.org/atoz/content/glo...

clinicaladvisor.com/home/fe...

[Cooperdog60 in reply to Bassetmommer]

Hi Bassetmommer, sorry to hear about your psoriatic arthritis but pleased to hear also that you have it under control. I don't have high uric acid any more so I suppose it must be the decline in kidney function that is causing it. I am having a ultrasound scan in March, not sure whether this will detect any kidney stones. I will mention to my Consultant about other solutions to take before I take anything else. I have in the past had high potassium so I should be careful then with cherries. I am careful in what I eat too, no red meat, no salt, low protein and drinking lots of water. Thank you for all your help and I will let you know how I am doing after seeing my Consultant in April. Best wishes

[orangecity41 NKF Ambassador in reply to Bassetmommer]

I have high uric acid also, but no gout. I have been taking Allopurinol for 6 months. I am CKD 3b.

[Cooperdog60 in reply to orangecity41]

Hi orangecity41, I hope for you that the Allopurinol will keep away the nasty gout. I am ckd stage 5 now, but for the last 2 months I have not had gout so I pray that the medication will prevent any more flare ups. I wish you well and hope your ckd remains stable for you. Thank you for your reply.

[orangecity41 NKF Ambassador in reply to Cooperdog60]

My Doctor believes the high uric acid is due to CKD, as have no symptoms of gout. Thanks for response.

[JimVanHorn]

I had gout and now I do not. I stopped eating all drippings from meat including absolutely all gravy. When meat (any meat) cooks the uric acid in the meat comes out in the juices and settles on the bottom of the pan. As the drippings cook they loose water and become stronger. As you eat any of the drippings in the gravy or over the meat you are getting excess amounts of uric acid. I also take Sodium Bicarbonate tablets as per my doctor to help my kidneys get rid of acids in my blood stream. Look for a healthy gout diet on the internet and your problem will be solved, if you follow the diet.

[Cooperdog60 in reply to JimVanHorn]

Thank you JimVanHorn, If I eat any meat its usually Pork or Chicken in small does. I don't use the fat for the gravy but make my gravy from low salt gravy granules. Glad to hear you don't have gout problems now. Sodium Bicarbonate seems the way to go but I will have to speak to my Consultant first. Thank you for you reply.

[JimVanHorn]

I don't know about gravy granules, but pork is as bad as beef with uric acid. Please do not use "gravy granules" in any drippings from cooking meat. It is not the "Fat" that is the problem. The uric acid is in the meat itself not the fat, so cutting out the fat is not the problem, although the fat causes other problems like obesity and high cholesterol. Mayo clinic says to cut out fat, but that is to loose weight. It is good that you have cut back on pork and chicken proportions. Please check out a low uric acid diet on the internet and good luck. I also used a drug from my doctor called Allopurinol (Zyloprim). You understand that the joint pain is caused by long thin crystals of mono sodium urate that act like tinny swords inside your joints. They break and then they are more painful. Then white blood cells try to get rid of the crystals, but the crystals are so long they kill the white blood cell! Now there are dead cells also in the joints which cause swelling (Called gouty tophi). Watch the veges you eat and drink a lot of water!

[Cooperdog60 in reply to JimVanHorn]

Hi JimVanHorn, I am taking Allopurinol and have been for the last 10 months. I have had gout in my toe last April, then 6 weeks ago gout in the kneecap, even tho my uric acid levels are normal. Everything seems to have settle down for the moment. I also had a lump removed from my right foot down the side near my ankle and this was a gouty tophi. I was told 5 years ago that this was a ganglion and apart from getting in the way of my shoes I had no pain from it. Yes I do watch the vegges that I eat too as my pottasium has been high in the past. I also drink of lot of water. Thank you for replying to me.

[JimVanHorn]

Do you have gouty tophi? I had normal levels of uric acid and was also in pain so they increased my Allopurinol for 2 months. This all happened 12 years ago and I have had no problem since then.

[Cooperdog60 in reply to JimVanHorn]

Yes JimVanHorn the lump on my right foot was a gouty tophi. I don't have it anywhere else tho. My Consultant doesn't want to increase my Allopurinol yet as it was only 6 weeks ago since the gout in my knee. He said it might make the gout worse. I see him next in April so lets see what happens

[JimVanHorn in reply to Cooperdog60]

Good luck! You know you can call the doctor and ask if you can increase the dose of Allopurinol. April is a long way off!

[Cooperdog60 in reply to JimVanHorn]

Hi yes I can do, thank you for the advice and all the best to you

[MICHIGANDAVID]

My wife mRCC Stage 4. Her oncologist is having her drink a glass of lemonade daily. It helps with GFR, etc. Consult your oncologist first.

[Cooperdog60 in reply to MICHIGANDAVID]

Thank you for your reply Michigandavid. It will be worth asking my Consultant about this as I have not heard about it before. Hope you wife is ok and the lemonade has helped with the GFR. Best wishes to you and your wife

[MICHIGANDAVID in reply to Cooperdog60]

Also ask about Gatorade and Pedialyte.

[Cooperdog60 in reply to MICHIGANDAVID]

Thank you Michigandavid I will do.

[steve680]

You are quite correct in that gout can cause kidney damage. High uric acid levels can lead to renal damage. People with CKD tend to have a lot of uric acid in their blood so CKD is both a cause and an effect. I would discuss with your doctor further what the best medication may be for you at your stage of kidney disease. As other people have mentioned sodium bicarbonate can reduce the acidity of your blood and may even help prevent further kidney damage.

[Cooperdog60 in reply to steve680]

Hi Steve680, I have been taking allupurinol for 12 months now and my uric acid levels are normal. However my Gp told me that the decline in my kidney function caused the gout. I will mention the sodium bicarb at my next meeting with the Consulatant. Thank you for your reply

[mbmills60]

Just thought I would add that, in my case, the diuretic hydrochlorothoriazide was the cause of my gout a decade ago. My nephrologist switched me to torsemide and the gout disappeared, Uric acid normal ever since. I remain on allopurinol just in case (currently CKD 5, 23gfr).

[Cooperdog60 in reply to mbmills60]

Thank you for your reply mbmills60, fingers crossed my gout is under control now. I am now CKD5 13%. Hope your uric acid levels stay normal too.

[Futureckd]

Hi Cooperfog60, just my information is that gout disease meds can deteriorate the kidney function! I was on gout med for 6 years and RA doctor was wondering why was I on that med for so long if I only had 2 episodes of gout! He shared an old tech paper saying that some meds including the one I was taking can cause autoimmune kidney disease. He said that the data in that paper shed some doubts on the gout med among others but was not conclusive enough. Just what I heard from the doctor.