THIS IS AN AWESOME DOCO... 8-): Post by MPN-MATE... - MPN Voice

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THIS IS AN AWESOME DOCO... 8-)

socrates_8
socrates_8

Post by MPN-MATE Admin » Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:51 pm

Hey everyone... :-D

Once more I have stumbled upon something that just might be useful to a few of us out there who really want to improve their overall general health & well-being...

This is of course, just another person's perspective, however, I simply found myself asking the question: "What if they are right?"

Anyways, please do have a watch, and please do let me know what you think. Naturally, as always... I will be most interested in this discourse...

Stay Safe & Well... 8-)

Best wishes

Steve

mpn-mate.com/forum/viewtopi...

38 Replies
oldestnewest

Inspiring doc, thanks for the link, anyone starting to watch it, don't be put of by the German subtitles in the middle of the screen, I've been meaning to address my inflammation and fatigue issues and a plant based diet could be the answer

socrates_8
socrates_8 in reply to john0084

Hey John... :-)

You are most welcome buddy...

At least it is presented in English... 8-)

Yes, it was quite an eye opening venture into some rather interesting results, that upon the surface, "anecdotally" appears to hold a good deal of logic and substance via way of the arguments it presents, in my view...

Good luck w/ it all...

Stay safe & well...

Steve

Because no time with two babies to see it,can you give me a short summary?

Thank you

socrates_8
socrates_8 in reply to Aneliv9

Hey Aneliv... :-)

Hmmmm.... ? No, not really no....

There is too much there to discuss, in my view...

Just 'Pause' it when you need to... It's easy, and worth it if you really want the benefits that might come w/ this information... A mystery... :-)

Best wishes, stay safe & well... :-)

Steve

Dovme
Dovme in reply to Aneliv9

I thought this review was good plantbasednews.org/culture/...

Given me much to think about - my diet is 70% vegetarian but l do enjoy some meat fish and cheese. Good luck Steve keep us posted with the results and thanks for sharing

socrates_8
socrates_8 in reply to Dovme

No problem... :-)

My pleasure as always...

Stay safe & well...

Steve

This is a good one! Thanks for posting. The anti-inflammatory benefits alone are so interesting -and I'm wondering about the B12 (as I am not keen on supplements) -there seems to be debate as to whether this can be sufficiently provided by fermented foods. However, I also find the environmental arguments for vegetarianism also compelling.

socrates_8
socrates_8 in reply to Bluetop

Hey Bluetop... :-)

I have started a Full-On Plant-Based - Vegan Diet as of this original Post...

I am simply going to run a Trial on myself for the next 4-8 weeks to see if I can detect any subtle or notable benefits before re-evaluating switching from my current Pescetarian based diet to one of Veganism... (NO Animal products)

I'll be sure to report back after I have gathered my first lot of findings, in my Plant-based trial...

Stay safe & well...

Steve

Bluetop
Bluetop in reply to socrates_8

Good for you! It is a big undertaking to rethink every meal. I rarely eat meat now but to cut out all dairy would be the biggest challenge for me. How often do you get your bloods tested? It will be interesting to know how it affects your cycling too.

Good luck with it1

socrates_8
socrates_8 in reply to Bluetop

Yes, I know... I love some cheese in particular, and because I don't ever drink milk, cheese is my main source of calcium. Hence, aside from Vit' D, I may now also have to add a Calcium supplement too...?

My bloods are tested every month so I should start to see some differences in the first batch really, I hope... (?) ;-)

Best

Steve

Bluetop
Bluetop in reply to socrates_8

Looking forward to hearing how it goes!

socrates_8
socrates_8 in reply to Bluetop

Me too... :-)

Steve

I just watched it on Netflix, great show and thanks for letting us know! Very insightful!!

socrates_8
socrates_8 in reply to Bears23

You are most welcome Bears23... :-)

Glad you watched & enjoyed it also...

Best wishes

Steve

This was very interesting. I do not think I could ever be 100% plant-based; however, I have already shifted to a more heavily plant-based diet. The typical Western diet is WAY too animal-based. It is also filled with contaminants: pesticides, artificial hormones, xenoestrogens, artificial food coloring, refined sugars, mercury and other things that are just not good for us. Keeping poison out of our bodies is a very good thing.

One of my favorite restaurants is a vegan place. The food is amazing - and I am a foodie. I do not miss the meat when I eat there. While I could not totally give up meat and other animal products, cutting way back just makes sense.

Thanks for posting this.

I gave up both red & white meats quite some time ago, I even went vegan for a short period but found it unsatisfying on that occasion...

Hence, I imagine this will be a bigger challenge for me w/out seafood... However, doing this trial w/ no animal products at all might help me notice a few things... So, I shall add Calcium to my supplements, and take it slowly at first to try to gauge how things might go...

Stay safe & well buddy...

Steve

I hope it works for you. My friend Sandra runs Kelley's Farm Kitchen (a vegan restaurant) in Harpers Ferry West Virginia. She is an amazing chef and a committed vegan. While I do not keep a vegan diet I really do enjoy eating there because the food is just so good. She is also quite good about keeping the contaminants out of the food she makes. Her coconut milk ramen bowl is incredible. So are her vegan "burgers." It is a lot more work to eat this way as so many places do not have a ready supply of fresh, non-contaminated foods. Hope you find success.

Yes, me too... :-)

I am not so needy of meat replacements, nor am I so sure that 'pretend meat' that is artificially composed is all that healthy to consume, and because I do not actually miss the texture of meat at all, I remain very comfortable w/ vegetables per se...

The struggle for me is that I have always adored seafood, and believed that it was better for than standard chemically 'Farm-fed' fodder of all descriptions... and it is... however, is it as good for as a "Plant-based' diet? That is the new question I am intending to ask...

Pity there is not a Dietician doing a study nearby here so that my results might be more closely monitored... I am really hopeful Hunter that this diet will really knock my bodily 'Inflammation' well down in my usual anticipated levels...

Who knows... maybe ... I will be able to dispense w/ some of my currently required med's?

However, I will miss my cheeses, and I will save those days of extra special celebrations, when I shall bask in the gastronomical delights of consuming a well-composed Mediterranean salad w/ fruits and a wonderful helping beautifully baked Haloumi in tumeric, lime, garlic & chilly ... and a full grain sourdough... Yum! 8-)

All the best, & I shall keep you appraised my friend... :-)

Steve

PS. Looks like my Ketogenic diet is about to leave me for good, if this all holds true that is of course...???

Bluetop
Bluetop in reply to socrates_8

Just a thought Steve, how will you measure inflammation?

socrates_8
socrates_8 in reply to Bluetop

That will be harder to actually measure per se...

However, I am expecting, (perhaps a tad optimistically), that my overall aches and pains will reduce in intensity, that my stamina will improve & add to my overall energy levels, perhaps my fatigue might also lessen (?)

I will also note my LD, AST and general cholesterol levels, and blood pressure under load... Those will be strong indicators...

IF...? If my bloods distribution levels also register a downward indice alongside my previous reports... It might even be possible that I might witness a drop in my higher level of Blood Platelets (?)

I did say 'Optimistically' :-)

We shall see in the fullness of time I guess...

Kind of an exciting small adventure that I have embarked upon... Either way, after all is said and done, hopefully, I will have gleaned something new... such is my anticipation at least...

Like a famous hobbit once uttered, "I think I am ready for another adventure..." ;-)

Best wishes

Steve

Agree about missing the cheeses. I already cut way back on all dairy just to reduce the fat intake. The are some of the blue cheeses I truly love, along with the nicer cheddars, gouda, and so many more. Bakes brie or feta is another great treat. That is how I treat cheeses these days - just on occasional treat - like a dessert.

Do let us know how the diet goes. I think the biggest challenge is finding objective markers for inflammation. That has been my own issue in monitoring how I am responding to the things I try. I am going to do a cytokine panel at some point, but will be doing it without a baseline to compare it to. I know my TF Growth Factor Beta is elevated, but that is the only thing I have as a known marker. Unfortunately we mostly have to rely on the subjective measures of our own observed level of pain and discomfort from the various inflammatory symptoms. It also opens the door wide to placebo effect coloring our perception. Regardless, sometimes we just have to do the best we can do.

Looking at your list of prefered foods - at least whole grain sourdough is still on the list. I make my own. In fact, making a loaf today. YUM! 😋

All the best my friend

Do you have liver function tests? If so, I believe low albumin is one inflammatory marker.

socrates_8
socrates_8 in reply to Bluetop

Onward Bilbo Baggins... ;-)

S

ox

socrates_8
socrates_8 in reply to Bluetop

Sorry, yes... I do have Liver tests performed regularly, and yes that is one way of measuring outcomes. However, doing a 'Cytokine Panel' (as Hunter suggested), would likely be more accurate. I am presently awaiting answers from my medical team in this regard to see if there are other suggestions I might employ etc...

Best wishes...

Steve

Fatigue has hit me part way into it, and info load is at max....too good to not let you know that it is interesting and persuasive so far, will continue when able. No brain left for critique etc right now, but thanks for posting, and look forward to hearing how your experiment goes!

Minu x

socrates_8
socrates_8 in reply to Minu68

Hey Minu... :-)

No problem, and glad you are enjoying it thus far...

Best wishes...

Steve

Well, that’s an interesting documentary. But personally I don’t think the scientific evidence to back most of the claims being made is there. I don’t mean to be negative and I urge everyone to make their own analysis. It’s easy to find really qualified peoples analysis in 30 seconds by googling. Personally I think it’s dangerous to mix up what you hope is good for the environment with what is good for your health. But that’s me you might end up with another opionion...

socrates_8
socrates_8 in reply to Bohus

Hey Bohus... :-)

Yes, I agree that most of what is presented here is more anecdotal than hard fact.

However, I am also reading many referenced citations relative to some of those claims at present, and so far I have found that many of their claims are not really too outlandish.

Making the mention that this also aids the environment for me is an aside, and one that I personally welcome.

Part of the reason we are all here at all, could be related to the incidence of benzene toxicity, (accumulated over time), and that may have provided part of the catalyst that gave us our MPN mutations... That information is passed through asking questions like "How did I get this MPN?"(?)

Therefore, personally, I welcome anything that might be beneficial to the environment. In Australia for example, we are teetering on the verge of losing our Koala bears because their habitat is all but gone via land clearing for farming and mining. Removing whole ecosystems often takes a devastating effect on key species...

However, the real benefits here that I am pursuing are the ones that might suggest to lowering my levels of 'Inflammation'. All cancers and many other chronic conditions can be directly linked to runaway levels of 'Inflammation' and if consuming a 'Plant-Based' diet can alter that... Then this is a more natural 'Trial' I am very willing to participate in to find and exploit such an advantage, if it exists...?

Normally, when someone promotes some type of new diet fad, there is a Book and or other merchandise being marketed... There is none of that here!

And if I, (optimistically desired), am able to rid myself eventually of toxic chemicals (medicines), by adapting to a 'Plant-Based' diet, then I am all for it...

Granted, this is not something I am recommending for everyone else to be trying... And as always people should ask what their medical team thinks before doing so, of course...

However, I am always seeking better responses and solutions to my own problems... and really that is all this is about, and I am merely sharing that experience. Whether it is something others wish to do is for them to determine for themselves, in my view...

Stay safe & well...

Steve

Being interested in alternatives to conventional medicine I know that it’s hard to support new ideas with scientific studies . However my opinion about this documentary is that it’s just to many unsubstantiated claims being made and to much cherry-picking. But that’s my personal opinion and my reason for commenting is just to encourage everyone to make up their own mind.

Regarding the environment I personally think that it’s the no 1 problem for us as a planet but its important to clarify that it’s a totally different question than what kind of food the human body is suited for and a far more complex question than plant based equals good and meat equals bad for the environment.

socrates_8
socrates_8 in reply to Bohus

All opinions are welcome of course... :-)

Whether I agree w/ your view or not is another matter, in this instance. I believe that there is sufficient anecdotal information concerning 'Plant-based' diets being a superior alternative, and there is certainly very little doubt in my own mind that removing whole ecosystems to grow ever more meat w/ chemical products... Well, let's just say that in my own studies, I have long ago satisfied those findings at a degree level of enquiry.

As to subjecting myself as the Trial guinea pig, (in this instance), as I am not allowing myself to become poisoned by ever greater toxicities such as those found in many of our medications, I am very happy to make this foray on my own account.

You are correct however, and it would certainly be most useful if there were more 'Plant-based' dietary studies available to scrutinise... Hopefully, they will materialise in time...

Nevertheless, there are many scientific Papers that do cite relevance across many fronts...

The website that this Doco' promotes has many resources and citations to 'Peer-reviewed' relevant articles can also be found, as I have already read through much of them myself, I cordially invite you to do the same...

gamechangersmovie.com/faqs/

gamechangersmovie.com/benef...

However, and as I mentioned before, this might not be for everyone, but if it improves my QoL and that of the Planet's, then I am all for it buddy... 8-)

Meanwhile, my personal Trial of 'Plant-based' alternative recipes is well underway...

Best wishes, Cheers :-)

Hey Socrates 😏,

Ruben Mesa has a trial researching the impact of an anti-inflammatory diet which has been specifically designed for MPN patients: -

wearempn.org/interestedinen...

The diet sheet was online for a while. I tried it out myself for the past two years, hoping it would alleviate fatigue, inflammation, and yes, also progression. It didn’t stop me progressing to MF or alleviate symptom burden so I’ve sacked it off... but will follow this thread to see how your plant-based diet goes for you. Good luck!

Hey Lucy... :-)

Yes, I think that have seen this study before . I believe that Dr Angela Fleischman was involved, and that the focus was around 'Inflammation:

Found the Link:

youtu.be/FzyoPAGTu-U

Thanks for that Lucy but I seem to recall that they were only inviting people Statside, when I last saw this, and right now your Link says that :

"WE ARE NOT CURRENTLY ENROLLING FOR THE ONLINE DIET STUDY..."

I have still provided my details, and hopefully, they shall take enrolments again, and I will participate if I am able...

Thanks again Lucy...

In the Plant-based Diet research, I have already found a number of very useful and timely scientific 'Peer-reviewed' Papers...

However, and in the interim, I am just going to follow a 'Plant-based' vegan dietary regime to see what benefits there are if any ... (?)

Best wishes Lucy, stay safe & well...

Steve

Hi Steve,

The trail’s currently ongoing, so they’re not recruiting for it anymore. I’m interested to see what the results are. Personally, trying out this diet gave me a sense of regaining some control over my body with my ET/MF, and that in turn made me feel less passive with regard to my MPNs. I hope at the very least your plant-based regime gives you that too.

Also, I have familial MPNs; judging from both my late Mother’s and now my own experiences of them, these seem to be more aggressive than non-familial MPNs, which could explain why diet has less of an impact. I’ve been pescatarian for the last 26 years, n/s, very little alcohol, no non-prescription drugs, and maintain a decent level of fitness, so I‘ll keep doing that and follow your progress with interest.

Best wishes,

Lucy

Hey again Lucy... :-)

Yes, the familial thing is quite an interesting aspect, (and in my own view), there seems to be a greater prevalence than is often given credit for, according to just a simple question I asked here some time ago...

It was an astounding result, in my view...

However, I tend to believe that we humans have been poisoning ourselves for a great many years nows, 100s... and generation after generation might well be carrying changes in DNA chromosomes, (mutations - environmentally acquired), and that really should not be thought of as such a surprise, again in my view...

Latest Film - Dark Waters – DUPONT 2015 Settle out of court

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_...)

Nevertheless, staying as fit & healthy as I / we can, will in most cases still aid our overall QoL and our longevity...

I too have been a Pescetarian for a great many years, and according to what I have thus far uncovered, all 'farm-fed' animal proteins may be substandard to a 'Plant-based' regime, as I say according to my ongoing research...

I have now gleaned enough to give this a good shake for myself, and for my own interest.

However, at this stage I will not be presenting my growing number of files and or citations until I have learned more myself...

Incidentally, I have also ceased all alcohol now for sometime too...

I was diagnosed 2016 Post ET / MF, CALR Type2, (HRM – ASXL1+), and Von Willebrands Syndrome (acquired VWS - Type 1 or 2?)

Presently, I am taking Ruxolitinib 25mg b/d, low dose 100mg Enteric-coated daily Aspirin, & anti-virals.

Still have underlying symptoms, however, they are greatly reduced via Ruxolitinib, and I believe through my own efforts at staying fit & consuming a healthy diet w/ intermittent fasting daily. Taking VIT' D, & Bs just to add some protection to deficiencies in both.

My cycling continues to improve, however, my high Platelet regime persists, and I am ever closer to my next TIA, (having had two (2) previous much earlier), currently 800s-900s...

Hence, I am most hopeful that I too will learn of any possible benefit to this latest attempt to improve my health through diet & exercise...

Always happy to share my findings, but first I need to collect my own findings as honestly as possible to discover, whether this is more than just my well-wishing...

Stay happy & safe Lucy...

Best wishes

Steve

Thank you Steve,

I found the article very interesting. Since being diagnosed in 2015 I kept to a vegan diet, everything seemed to be going well until March this year when I began to feel very ill and things began to change and by May I felt death was knocking at the door. My chemo was increased to 1000mg a day and they wanted me to have blood transfusion which I declined and decided to re-introduce meat in to my diet which I presently am still eating BUT I have noticed I am getting more infections and I have no energy. So I get my bloods done next week and then I am going to try a plant base diet. Do you have any menus ? like you I have my bloods done every month and it will be interesting to see what the changes are.

Best wishes

Angela

Hey Angela... :-)

So very sorry to learn that you are struggling w/ your MPN at the moment...

The thing is that the mystery cause might be almost anything at all... (?)

Hence, trying to discover what they real issue is might require the help of someone that it better versed in MPNs... Perhaps someone like Prof. Harrison ?

Maybe, asking Maz for some assistance could help you further...

I will send you a PM very shortly, as I am just in the middle of something here at the moment... However, I do want to respond to you more fully...

So... I'll be back shortly... :-)

Steve

ox

Thanks, have a look at T Colin Cambell Center for nutrition studies

Thanks Angela... :-)

I have also sent you a private message (PM) too...

Best wishes

Steve

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