Deputyship / Nominated Person / Trusts - experiences and advice please?

[NavyBlueHue]

We would love to hear from any parents or carers who have gone through the Deputyship (or Nomineeship) process recently. We have had some solicitors give us an estimate of £2k-£4k for this application process which seemed a lot to us, but maybe we are naive to the typical costs of this process?

Thank you in advance to anyone who is able to share their experience of doing this with a solicitor or independently themselves.

We were also advised that if the disabled person's main income is DWP benefits (which it will be), that a Nomineeship or Nominated Person with DWP is preferred by the Courts. Yet, although our son will likely not have income other than benefits, Nomineeship seems insufficient protection to us because it won't cover things like tenancy agreements, utilities bills and eventually ownership of a home as would ultimately like to gift him accommodation of some sort that he can live in securely after we die. So are we best setting up a Trust for him? Again, any advice welcome from parents who've been here before. (We are trying to ask the lawyers, too, but obviously there's a limit to the information they provide before they start charging their £300+ ph 😊)

[AMPJAP]

We applied and completed the the forms ourselves it was a bit complicated but it was acceptable by the court of protection and the application was made by our son (SLD) who is on the normal DWP benifits there is a reduction in the fees . This application was during Covid and took nearly a year and in the end we asked the court to staid the application and our son went into supported living and we found he did not need the protection of deputy ship and continued to use the appointee to control his DWP money and his direct payment from the council

DMy advice would download the forms and read the notes and advice we made small mistakes and the court were quick to return for correction

If you go with Solictors you still don’t have to pay the courts fees because the application is for your son you pay for expert advice and completion of docs

[NavyBlueHue in reply to AMPJAP]

Thank you that's very helpful. We will start with downloading the Court forms and going through carefully to assess if we feel capable of doing the application ourselves. Appreciate your reply!

[PastelParrot]

If you are thinking of gifting property then you need to set up a trust. Lots of benefits are means tested and will be stopped once the individual has some assets. We set up a trust with Mencap. Their wills and trusts section is a good place to start.

[NavyBlueHue in reply to PastelParrot]

Great advice, thanks. Will start with looking at the Mencap wills and trusts section.

[DrSarahmac]

hi. I act as nominee for benefits, have a power of attorney as back up health and finance issues and a trust in place for property and money inheritances once we’re gone. The trust wasn’t cheap (£2.5k) but gives huge peace of mind.

[NavyBlueHue in reply to DrSarahmac]

Thank you. So with those other protections in place, you don't necessarily deputyship? That is good to know too, in case for some reason the Court of Protection declines our application to be deputies

[DrSarahmac in reply to NavyBlueHue]

Hi. No we've never needed a deputyship. My daughter has capacity to agree to the POA. She lives in a rented property with us as guarantors. She will eventually inherit all our assets (only child) so a Trust was essential. I started with the Mencap Wills and Trusts online seminars which were unbelievably helpful. There were two firms of (STEP accredited) solicitors that presented the seminars and I chose to go with Renaissance in Brighton. They were extremely helpful before I'd even committed to their services. I found that Mencap were a little restrictive in so far as how the Trust could be set up. As I say it wasn't cheap but £2.5k was for Trust and re-doing our joint wills which are quite complicated as we need to provide for each other while also safeguarding assets for my daughter's (only child) future. I believe (but could be wrong) that LAs can apply for deputyship so it may be worth you getting one in place if you think there's any risk of that. Maybe another thing to discuss with your solicitor? In short I'd start with the Mencap seminars and get specialist legal advice. Good luck - it takes a while but it's worth it for the peace of mind.

[DrSarahmac in reply to DrSarahmac]

one other point is that we have put all utilities etc in my daughter's name but I manage them online on her behalf. Most of these also accept evidence of vulnerability (via benefits) to allow you to speak on their behalf and to register them as priority customers should there be service issues.

[NavyBlueHue in reply to DrSarahmac]

All such useful information - thank you again. I have booked onto some of the upcoming online seminars with Mencap as well as Renaissance legal. There is much to learn as he enters this new phase of life!

[Buddyh in reply to DrSarahmac]

That's exactly what we are looking to do. We are nominees for benefits and have power of attorneys but we are stuck on the Trust bit as we have no family to act as Trustees. Did you have family for yours? I just wondered if there was a way around the problem of no families to control the Trust.

[DrSarahmac in reply to Buddyh]

No, I have no siblings and my daughter is an only child. My parents are already too old. My husband's siblings are a similar age to us and unlikely to outlast us by much. Tbh I think it's too much to ask of anyone anyway - there's quite a bit involved in managing the trust and I would have no control over who a trusted person might marry or be in a relationship in the future so that's too risky for me.

Our trust is managed by myself and my husband with that passing to Renaissance solicitors once we're not around. There are annual fees but they also manage the funds to ensure these don't erode with inflation. Their fees were slightly cheaper than Mencap so I'm happy that they're fair. One other thing to mention is to let close family know of the arrangements so that they leave any inheritance for your dependant to the trust and not directly to them as that could impact benefits and make them vulnerable to people who might want to take advantage.

[Buddyh in reply to DrSarahmac]

Thank you! That sounds perfect for us as well

[SpeedyH]

Hi there. As others have said, there are no court fees payable if your son is on low income benefits so the sum you were quoted was purly the solicitors charges. I would advise you to firstly ensure that your son definitively doesn't have capacity to set up a lasting power of attorney as this is a far simpler process if he does have capacity. The test is whether he understands that the document is an important legal document and wants to give you the power to deal with things he struggles with.

If he doesn't have the capacity to understand POA, then you need to decide if he needs financial deputyship. You are correct that without it you can still receive and control his benefits but you will not be able to take out tenancies and utilities etc on his behalf. This won't matter if he lives with you or in a LA commissioned supported living arrangement where such things are part of tge package and come under control of the LA, but if he was to move somewhere with a private landlord it would be a problem.

It is really important that you and other relatives do not gift your son money or property as these will be taken to pay for his care. For example, if you left a house for your son, social care might well decide that it would be cheaper for him to be supported in a residential care home and they could (and would!) move him out and sell the property to pay for his care. The answer, as others have said, is for assets to be left in a discretionary trust for his benefit. This is usually done via the person's will and you will need a solicitor to set this up. In mybarea this costs around £700.

[NavyBlueHue in reply to SpeedyH]

Thank you. Very grateful for your informative reply. We need to consider each of the points you raise very carefully. Whatever choices we make around deputy / nominee or poa, it seems a discretionary trust is going to be essential.

[MUDOG]

hi,

I have power of attorney for my for his health and wellbeing and I’m nominee for his finances ie his benefits. I used a company called honey legal for the power of attorney. Its was all done fairly easily and think it was around £450. The nominee was done through his social worker and didn’t cast anything.

Hope you get sorted

[NavyBlueHue in reply to MUDOG]

Thanks so much. It's really useful to see the other options apart from deputyship - options that may be better for his needs. It's also incredible the difference in costs between law firms. And the first firm we spoke with certainly didn't seem to have as much knowledge in the area as the families on this forum! Have a great week 😊

[MUDOG in reply to NavyBlueHue]

Happy to help,

There seems to be a lot of solicitors who just want to take your money. The one I used specialised in cases where disabled people are involved. My brother doesn’t have capacity to sign and communicate but they helped with all this and explained everything we needed to do.

[Cranberry]

We're going through the same confusion as you! Found the Mencap Wills and Trusts webinar and the online 'Planning for the Future' information from Renaissance Legal really helpful.

We're in the process of setting up a Vulnerable Person's Trust (also referred to as a Disabled Person's Trust) now and getting our wills written to leave our assets into a Discretionary Trust after we both die, so that they can be directed to our children as appropriate at that time. Mencap Trust Company could act as sole trustee but we are fortunate to have relatives that are happy to be involved as trustees, so won't need a Trust Company. Some solicitors will act as professional trustees alongside family trustees, so that might be an option for us if we feel it's too complicated for family to manage alone nearer the time. To get two wills that include the setting up of the discretionary trust will be around £1,300 and around £600 to set up the Vulnerable Person's Trust deed. It seems a lot but is less than the quote we had for a new fence (!) and makes me feel a bit calmer about the future.

Like you, we're still considering the pros and cons of deputyship and thanks to others for the advice on that here.

[NavyBlueHue in reply to Cranberry]

There is so much to consider isn't there, as clearly the legal frameworks available to us parents are not perfect and there seems not to be a single solution. I like your comparison to your quote for building a new fence - Trusts and fences have sort of similar purposes 😆

I've booked onto some of the upcoming webinars with Mencap and Renaissance Legal - so grateful that some professionals in this area are willing to share some information for free.

[Franklindragon]

We are in the same process, my son has cp non verbal, understands general things. Has support worker, lives at home with us and loves his life. He has a good package with support workers he is also a wheelchair user. I wanted my son to continue to live at home when we die and for him to carry on with his personal budget with support workers, the social services said he would go into assisted living because he needs 24/7 and he could only stay at home if he paid for nights out of his own money.