my daughter with asd, adhd, and a learning disability is about to turn 18. Adult social care are talking about applying for COP1. Is this normal??? Can I stop them?? I don’t think it’s right for them to make decisions for my daughter who they don’t know and who lives with me. Can they force her to move out against her will if they get this?? I’m very confused why they are even talking about it.
Update: I had my meeting with the social worker, my daughter stayed upstairs while we talked. It wasn’t COP1 as she had said to me. It is COP DOL. I didn’t even know about this and it is simply because she’s turning 18 and sometimes I have to lock the doors and hide the keys to stop her escaping. It’s for deprivation of liberty and so no one accuses me of keeping her prisoner or anything like that. Simply because she has a learning disability and they just need to apply to make sure everyone understands there’s no abuse going on, it’s simply me keeping her safe. I did say to the social worker I think there’s not enough information given to parents about the transition and what to expect and maybe a booklet explaining the next steps would be useful. I want to thank everyone for their great advice and understanding.
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Elle1984
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Hi Elle1984. Having applied for, and been granted, deputyship for property and finances for my daughter with learning difficulties and also applied for (still awaiting decision) deputyship for her personal welfare, I have some experience with these Court of Protection forms but may not be the best person to advise you. My understanding is that applications to the Court of Protection are made by individuals not social services so I would seek legal advice on this. MENCAP may be able to advise if you don't want to pay for a solicitor who specialises in this type of work. Have Adult Social Care said what the reason is for them applying to the Court of Protection or whether this relates to your daughter's property and finances, or her personal welfare? As a parent you know what feels right or wrong for your daughter and you should question anything which doesn't sit right. Ask why they intend to do this, what benefits to your daughter could be achieved, and get some independent advice (and if possible some support) for yourself so you can get a full understanding of the facts. Good luck.
Why though?? when my daughter lives with me, I’m her appointee and we’re both quite happy. I don’t get why they think they have a right to make decisions for someone they don’t even know. We’re technically still under children’s services until the end of the month when she turns 18.
Speak to the office of public guardian for advice. Get a deputyship asap for health and well-being and property and finance. You can complete forms online on the gov.U.K. Website or my other advice as well as is speak to a. Independent consultant social worker if you need a contact I have one or check one out locally and see what you can find out there’s also the Mencap helpline good luck but for me the deputyships have been crucial otherwise your loved ones get sucked up and taken over by the system so please don’t let that happen.
Hi Elle1984, are the council suggesting you apply or they apply on your daughter's behalf? I had an email from social services suggesting they apply for deputyship for finances for my adult sister with learning disabilities who is in a care home. I felt I was really being steered to agree and they weren't making it clear that they would have control over her finances and not the Court of Protection. I didn't agree and they have backed off. She doesn't have savings, having never worked and the social worker hadn't said anything about the annual fee. All the best
The conversation was the social worker needs to come and assess her capacity because they need to apply to the court for a COP1. I asked what is that and was told it’s easier to explain in person. I knew it was court of protection but I just don’t understand why they’re even thinking of doing this. She’s not coming out until next Friday. I’m not letting her talk to my daughter to ask her questions until I get some answers.
When the social worker contacted me I had already deputyship for a relative with dementia who had savings. I had to pay a yearly fee to the Office of the Public Guardian and do a yearly report. It would have been totally inappropriate for my sister with no savings and I really didn't trust their motives. If they did apply to the Court of Protection they would have to get your consent before the Court would agree- sorry if I am saying something you already know.
Hi again - sorry, I forgot to suggest you contact Mencap for advice as someone else suggested. I went to them when social services contacted me about deputyship and they were really reassuring
No it’s not normal at all. If she lives with you I’ve no idea why they would want to be her deputy’s.
Are they saying they want deputyship or that they want you to apply for deputyship? Are they saying for finances or for health or for both? Does she have money other than benefits? Are you her appointee? It makes no sense .
No she’s 17 she’s not even 18 until the end of the month, all she gets is PIP because she’s going to college in September. They haven’t told me anything, the social worker talked about coming out to assess her capacity I asked why and she said because she’s turning 18 we need to apply to the court for a COP1 and I asked what that is and she said it’ll be easier to explain in person. I know what Court of Protection is and I don’t feel right now it’s appropriate! Maybe in the future when I’m old it might be but there’s just no reason for it now.
I’m assuming they mean for you to be her deputy although I’m not sure why! . My son is 24 and lives in a residential care home and we don’t have deputyship. It’s not needed for finances as he has none and it’s not been needed for health either. We’re fully involved in all healthcare decisions and anything major would go to best interests which we would be involved in.
Some parents like to have it and in some cases it’s absolutely necessary but none of my friends with adult children have it.
I don’t think it’s necessary for us we have no money and I’m always going to do what’s in her best interests after discussing it with her, and making sure she understands her options and I’ll be making that clear to the social worker. It just seems odd to me that they suddenly feel the need to do this.
Someone I know from my son’s college had to do it so she could sign the tenancy agreement for his supported living placement otherwise like you’ve said there’s absolutely no need especially while she’s living at home with you. Bloody social workers!
I signed my daughter's tenancy agreement for supported living as her representative/authorised person before I got deputyship so, unless the rules have changed, deputyship is not necessarily needed to sign a legal document on behalf of the person. I can't help thinking this is a means to social services assuming control and making decisions which may suit their agenda/budget but may not be in the best interests of the young person.
That’s exactly what I think plus I had complained to my MP because they didn’t want to approve her enabling service that she’s had for years with children’s services. It took 2 weeks after I contacted our MP to get her enabling approved with adult social care for the days she doesn’t attend college. It feels like they’re trying to punish me by trying to take control of my daughter.
I was in the same position , my son lives with me , he has no mental capability. A social worker told me I had to have Court of Protection in order for them to speak to me about his finances. I went ahead with a retired solicitor that she gave me contact details for . He said I only needed finance as health and welfare weren't needed as I could always make decisions on behalf of my son .? He charged me for his services. It all seems very strange now as my son only recieves benefits, he has no savings ect , he pays weekly towards his day care service back to the council . I have to do a yearly report to the office of public gaurdian and justify anything I spend on his behalf which I find very intrusive , especially as I shop for both of us , I was told he had to buy his own tioletries and food which made harder work for me while shopping , I have since stopped doing it , we live together and I cook and clean for both of us and do all his personal care , I managed to get a bank account separate to mine for his benefits to be payed ino as this is what COP require, I couldnt get one in his name as he lacks capacity,
. I have only had COP for the last 3 years , he has to pay for a bond .I think I was advised wrongly by the social worker and find COP intrusive and unnecessary at this point , living with me and very little money involved , plus decisions on how his money is spent by people that do not know him or how our home works .
I am not trying to turn people off going for COP as It maybe usefull in other sercumstances , especially dealing with care homes ect .
Lasting power of Attorney can not be applied for if the person lacks capacity , We had this for my mother and no yearly reports had to be done , when she passed away it was easier to sort out her finances and pay care home fees with accsess to her bank account. Good luck and I hope you can get good some information from others
I am a Financial and Property Deputy, appointed by the Court of Protection (CoP), for my daughter - she is 30years old and has a learning disability.
I applied to the CoP myself and was, (initially at least), supported by her Local Authority who had carried out a "Needs Assessment", as they are all required to do under the Care Act, when she decided that she wished to leave home to become a little more independent. She now lives, very happily in Supported Accommodation but it was a long journey in ensuring that she gets the care and support to which she is entitled.
Bottom Line is that nobody - neither you nor the Local Council - could/should apply to the CoP until your daughter has had a Mental Capacity Assessment undertaken by a qualified person to demonstrate that she lacks capacity to make her own decisions. If the CoP were approached without such an assessment they would simply throw it out. A "qualified person" could be her social worker but other professional people are allowed to do this too, such as solicitors or care professionals.
Generally the CoP considers two areas in which to appoint a Deputy - Finance/Property and/or Health/Welfare. Applying to the CoP should be regarded as a "last resort" in many ways as there are strict rules on how Deputies must conduct themselves. There are other alternatives if your daughter has capacity to make her own decisions such as becoming her Attorney or even just remaining an Appointee (for her benefit payments, I assume) at the moment unless there are other issues to consider.
I could write a book on these procedures but my strong advice is to contact MENCAP on their free number - tel: 0808 808 1111.
MENCAP have wonderful expertise in all matters Learning Disability and were always an amazing, friendly, supportive voice at the end of the phone when I was sometimes in despair with my Local Authority. They run lots of free courses and there is loads of advise on their website - mencap.org.uk/
Don't give up - it's crucial for you and your daughter's future for when you're not around. Challenge your Local Council if you don't agree - they are simply driven by £££s and seek help when you are unsure.
Take care and the very best of luck to you both...... xx
Thank you so much for your reply. I appreciate it more than you know. And I totally agree it should be a last resort that’s why I don’t understand their motives for even suggesting it and why I’m not allowing them to talk to my daughter until I have more information from them as to what the hell they are doing. I will definitely be contacting mencap. Thanks again
They are not forcing her to move out. But, if she were moving to a Supported Living place she would need the COP1.Best talk again to the social worker as to what options has she got.
Also, is she going to go to college 18-21, which might be the reason, why they want this in place.
I don’t understand what her going to college has to do with COP it’s part of her EHCP. She just left school and is going to start college in September but she’s still living with me and only gets PIP.
My daughter is in supposed living but no cop order. She's been there almost 2 yrs. We have PoA. Possibly want DOLS but not sure why if she lives with you.
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