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2,164 members β€’ 5,311 posts

Spring 2021 Half Marathon Group 😍 Top Tip #1: Negative splits!

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator
β€’93 Replies

Hey all you lovely HM-ers!!

β˜… How are you getting on?

Please tell us all about it! We love hearing from you 😍😍😍

If you haven't started training yet, or are unsure about your current plan, grab a cuppa and check out our Training Plans post: healthunlocked.com/marathon...

β˜… Top Tips!

Welcome to the first in an occasional series of Top Tips for training for and running a half marathon!!! Linda and I will be sharing our own tips, or the ideas of other runners we've read about that we think might be useful. And if you have a Top Tip you'd like us to post about please feel free to contact us!

The first Top Tip from me is...

β˜… Negative splits!

I'll admit I used to be somewhat dismissive of the idea of negative splits, particularly during race events. And I do still think that it's fine to run even splits; and also of course sometimes positive splits are the way to go - just think of a route that ends on a massive hill!! Or perhaps you just want to run how you feel, and that's a beautiful thing - a run is a run at the end of the day ❀️

However, it is also true that running your route with negative splits (that is to say running the second half of your route faster than the first) is an excellent way to learn to pace yourself (resisting the temptation to start off like a rocket!), to build endurance, and to give yourself a mental boost! There's something really satisfying about looking back at your run data and seeing a perfect pattern of each split run faster than the previous one 😊😊😊. When it comes to race day, there's nothing like getting near the finish feeling as though you have something left in the tank.

My simple way to achieve negative splits is to start off slowly - harking back to the days of Couch to 5K when everyone told us to slooooooow dowwwwwwn πŸ˜„ For longer runs I just use the first couple of km as my warm up and settling down time, getting that "toxic 10" out of the way. After that I can ease into a steady pace for a while, and then for the final few km I am telling myself "this is the home straight!", and I can pick up the pace knowing I will soon be able to stop and rest, and have some nice food! With all that encouragement I usually feel like pushing myself for a sprint finish - fabulous!!!

So, give it a try! Tell us how it went. Or if you're already negative-splitting - how do you find it?

But however you are running - enjoy your training!!!

roseabi & linda9389 xxx

January 22nd, 2021

--

Spring 2021 Half Marathon Group list: docs.google.com/spreadsheet...

HUHM Spring 2021 Strava Club: strava.com/clubs/HUHMspring21

Virtual events list: docs.google.com/spreadsheet...

Previous posts:

Invitation to join: healthunlocked.com/marathon...

Check-in and strava club: healthunlocked.com/marathon...

Virtual events list and possible HUHM event?: healthunlocked.com/marathon...

93 Replies
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Jonno34
Jonno3410 Miles

I tend to limit my speed at the start by using my HR. As you get tired it goes up anyway but at the start I use it to stop me getting off the mark too quick. With long runs I am more worried about getting to the end than setting a good time!

I did me first 15 k yesterday and had a minor altercation with a driver about 7k in, without noticing and probably due to a bit of adrenalin my pace shot up and I had to wind it back in.

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Jonno34

That doesn't sound good! About the driver I mean, the runs sound great! xxx

Speedy60
Speedy60Half Marathon

Thank you for this. I intend to run my second half soon (bought the jelly babies today πŸ˜‰).I didn't mean to run my first half on the day I did it, just to run further than my previous best 16km. I was totally unprepared and thought I might be sick at 19km. The only thing that got me through was thinking how my strava would look if I gave up at 20km. πŸ˜†

When I finished, I swore I'd never do it again, but I've been inspired by the Eddie Izzard runpod interview. He was saying the reason most runners don't run more than one marathon is because they train for it, set it as a goal, and stop when they reach it.

Now, I have huge respect for anyone who can run one marathon, I couldn't do it, and certainly not one a day, but it got me thinking: the longer I leave between half marathons, the harder it will be to do it again. So this time, water, jelly babies and a good meal of complex carbs the night before.

I will be trying negative splits, but I rarely manage to get it right. It always feels too slow at the beginning. The other thing I thought of doing was setting my metronome. Any thoughts on this?

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Speedy60

Got Jelly Babies will run Half Marathon - I love it!!!

Strava, the great motivator 😊

Yes, consistency is very helpful! How do you mean to use the metronome? By increasing the bpm every so often?

Speedy60
Speedy60Half Marathon in reply to roseabi

I'm not too bothered about speed, as long as its better than last time, which can't be difficult as I almost crawled the last 3km. I just wondered if using a metronome would keep me consistent. But then I love my music and my brain might explode. I probably need to play around with it on a short run first.

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Speedy60

Oh I see! You could have a playlist of music that has a particular bpm - if you can find enough of it that you like, that is πŸ˜„

e.g. jog.fm/workout-songs/at/170...

Speedy60
Speedy60Half Marathon in reply to roseabi

Thanks for the link. I'll have a browse x

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Speedy60

I've got Elton John stuck in my head now πŸ˜‚

Speedy60
Speedy60Half Marathon in reply to roseabi

Could be worse πŸ˜„

Lazyfrog
Lazyfrog in reply to Speedy60

I'll try the jelly babies 😝😁

Speedy60
Speedy60Half Marathon in reply to Lazyfrog

I didn't use them last time because I was unprepared, and I ended up feeling quite faint. Other runners swear by them, so I thought I'd give it a go.

PurpleFish59
PurpleFish59Half Marathon

I often set off with the intention of doing negative splits but as I live almost at the top of a hill, it can be a bit of a challenge. My training plan this time has lots of β€œprogression runs” in it though. Usually they are say an hour or so of easy running then pick it up to goal pace for 10-15 mins then a fast finish at 5K pace for 5-10 mins. I always finish them feeling great because in the β€œtoxic 10” at the start of the easy section I always think I’ll never be able to pick the pace up by over a minute/km at the end- but I’ve never failed yet, even on the dreaded hill 😁

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to PurpleFish59

That's brilliant, well done!!

David_G
David_GHalf Marathon

Hi roseabi and running friends! I’m coming towards the end of week 3 of my HM training plan. If all goes to plan I should finish my virtual LEJOG odyssey with my HUHM Half Marathon on 28 MarchπŸ™‚πŸ€žI’ve got a spreadsheet where I’m logging all my runs for LEJOG and my HM plan feeds into it to tell me exactly what I need to do on a given day. I’ve also built in some flexibility so I can take into account any problems on the way. It’s got pretty colours to show how I’m getting on against my targets, graphs etcπŸ˜„

As for negative splits, I’m a big fan. I use the NRC app and the advice on there is always to start off slowly. I manage to follow it most of the timeπŸ˜ŠπŸƒβ€β™‚οΈ

Good luck everyone, let’s hope the worst of the weather has passed now we’ve lost storm Christoph!πŸ’¦β˜”οΈπŸ’¨

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to David_G

Fabulous!!! xxx

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to David_G

I'd love to see this spreadsheet of yours, I love a good spreadsheet πŸ˜ƒ

David_G
David_GHalf Marathon in reply to roseabi

Hi Roseabi, I’ve sent you a message via this app.πŸ™‚πŸ‘

Speedy60
Speedy60Half Marathon in reply to David_G

That sounds very organised. I'm so rubbish at discipline. I start off thinking I'll do a quick 5km and then I don't stop. I do too many mediocre 10kms. I say mediocre, but is it that when you enjoy them. I don't know. πŸ€·β€β™€οΈGood luck with your plan.

David_G
David_GHalf Marathon in reply to Speedy60

Thanks Speedy60 my dad was a headmaster - think of John Cleese in Clockwise and you’ve got the idea! I think I must take after him🀣There’s no such thing as a mediocre run, I think they all teach us something if we look closely enough😊 Most importantly you enjoy them!

Good luckπŸ™‚πŸ‘

Cmoi
CmoiHalf Marathon in reply to Speedy60

Thanks @Speedy60, you've so cheered me up. I pretty much always run as I feel like it, and have never, ever managed negative splits.

I try to put in a sprint finish for the final 250m home, which is slightly downhill, but overall my pace is strongly correlated with where I'm running: downhill is faster than uphill, and the road is faster than the forest track.

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Cmoi

I'm so sorry, I really don't want you to feel bad or that you are doing anything wrong!!! I had hoped I had managed to convey this in my post, but neg splits are really not the most important thing in the world, and the use of them is strongly dictated by your routes xxx

Cmoi
CmoiHalf Marathon in reply to roseabi

Oh roseabi, you don't need to apologise :) Your post was perfectly clear and lovely.

My response is down to my own issues with self-esteem and the little voice that keeps telling me I have absolutely no right to be hanging about on a marathon forum.

I'm already in awe of everyone who has a proper training plan and gets on with it, so I find stuff like spreadsheets, negative splits, heart rate training, and so on really intimidating. I'm also desperately trying to keep running mentally categorised as an enjoyable activity that makes me feel good, rather than a "must achieve, must do better" one.

I've learned and am still learning so much from the various HU forums, and not least from you. Thank you for that. xxx

linda9389
linda9389Administrator in reply to Cmoi

I find this a really interesting comment. The one thing I can't seem to do is stop the 'must achieve, must do better'. It's not really who I am, yet it's the thing that keeps me motivated with running (and cycling too). I often wish I could switch my head off !!! Once a plan is done, and an event run, I can usually manage a handful of aimless 'for the joy' runs and really love them, but before I know it my head's off again on a new track!!! Definitely don't be intimidated by stuff like spreadsheets, neg splits, heart rate training etc. ... in some ways it's an affliction and much kudos to you for having the strength to resist πŸ‘πŸ˜Š. Read, digest, then throw away what doesn't feel good for you (as Adriene would say)

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Cmoi

Hugs πŸ₯°

Really, the running is the most important thing! You have every right to be a member of this forum and you are most incredibly welcome here!!!!!!

xxxxxxxxxx

Lazyfrog
Lazyfrog in reply to Cmoi

I sympathies with you Cmoi! Although do love a good plan, especially now, running and training gives me a much needed structure and a faint sense of achievement. But like the others said, there is no one 'right way', our lives and motivations vary so massively, and as long as you enjoy it, that's the main thing!

My family back at home were quite surprised when I told them I'm training for a HM because as a child I wasn't sporty at all. I used to loathe PE and running and would ask them to write me notes so I could skip classes πŸ˜… Before last March, I mostly only ran in my gym on a treadmill, never really more then 40 minutes and I would always focus on how many calories I've burnt and that'd be my main motivation rather than getting farther, faster, stronger or just simply enjoying it. Now I never set out for a run thinking, 'I must do this to lose weight ' - which is completely fine BTW but my focus has shifted. My goal is to reach a certain distance or time or cheer myself up, and I hardly ever look how many calories I've burnt! I am still very slow, just like when I was a child, but I've learnt not to care and compare and celebrate the little victories that come with every run, no matter if it's 10 minutes or 2 hours 😊 There are many different reasons for running but feeling good must be the most important one 😊 Sorry if I babbled on for too long 😡 Happy running! πŸƒβ€β™‚οΈπŸƒβ€β™€οΈπŸŒž

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Lazyfrog

That's so lovely!! xxx

My family are very confused by my behaviour over the past few years πŸ˜‚

Lazyfrog
Lazyfrog in reply to roseabi

🀣

SkiMonday
SkiMondayMetric Marathon in reply to Cmoi

Hi Cmoi

I think you've every right to be on this forum! I think this group is intended for those working on/towards HM distance and you're already there. Also, an HM with a total climb of 470m is nothing to be taken lightly!

For what it's worth, I've been running without a plan as well. I'm sure that plans can be really useful (and I might start following one at some point) but you don't need to have one.

Last weekend, I tried a 10k at a really easy pace and found that I enjoyed it more than a lot of runs.

Anyhow, take it easy in these wintery conditions and happy running.

Cmoi
CmoiHalf Marathon in reply to SkiMonday

Thanks SkiMonday. As you'll probably have seen on Strava, I got in another 10k this morning - having intended to do maybe 30 minutes. But it was lovely weather for running, and we're not (yet) back in full lockdown, so I went back up the hill to my beloved forest. And I not only took photos, but got to draw my Strava cat again! 😸

SkiMonday
SkiMondayMetric Marathon in reply to Cmoi

Runs like that are good aren't they! Haven't done much on Strava today because we went out for a walk in the snow (this morning will probably be the only time we have snow round here this year).

Speedy60
Speedy60Half Marathon in reply to Cmoi

I'm so glad I cheered you up. I always sprint the end because I live in a cul de sac and I want everyone to think I'm bossing it. πŸ˜‰πŸ˜‚

Cmoi
CmoiHalf Marathon in reply to Speedy60

Mine's more relief at having made it up the final hill! πŸ˜‚

TailChaser
TailChaserHalf Marathon

I seem to find negative splits quite easy most of the time. I think it’s because I still only walk to warm up so I naturally start off slow and build up. Today was an example - I only ran 14 hours earlier (doing RED) so was still stiff but we built up to a reasonable speed by 5k. However, 10k+ it goes completely to pot so maybe I should challenge myself to that as the training moves on πŸ€”

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to TailChaser

It's a fun thing to try! xxx

TailChaser
TailChaserHalf Marathon in reply to roseabi

I'll give it a go tomorrow roseabi, it'll give me a good excuse to start of slow πŸ‘x

Guinea70
Guinea70Half Marathon

Hi, I try to do negative splits when I'm out but it doesn't always happen, recently I've found that I've been heading out a bit too fast but at the time I feel like I'm going a lot slower pace than I am and I don't realise until I look at Strava when I get back. It's a bit frustrating and something I'm working on. I don't really have a toxic 10 problem (probably because every direction I go from my home is downhill) but it always seems a toxic 20 that affects me. I'm trying to build up to attempt to do my second HM soon which I'm hoping will be easier than the 1st one just before Christmas. My only two flat options locally are either direction on a cycle path (I did the 1st HM on this) but it gets really busy so I'm trying to avoid it, I'm not confident that the quieter but hilly route for my 2nd HM is going to be much better :D but I'm determined to do it :D I've also decided that if I do this one ok without feeling like I'm going to "die" at the end then I'm going to push on and carefully increase my long runs 😁

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Guinea70

A downhill start is too tempting!! πŸ˜‚

Your hilly route will be fabulous - looking forward to seeing how you get on!!! xxx

I find the cold weather definitely helps with negative splits - I am cold enough heading out of the door that I really need to take it slowly, then speeding up happens fairly naturally as I get warmer. NRC encouragement helps too. I did a lovely negative splits run on Tuesday as a running club challenge - can't do a picture here but those of you on Strava can see the very pleasing (to me at least) splits analysis.

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Blackberrypie

I just checked it out - very nice!

cheekychipmunks
cheekychipmunksHalf Marathon

Hmm, negative splits. πŸ€” I’m a lot better at not getting 100% positive splits nowadays, but truly negative ones tend to be unintended. Just a nice surprise!

I’ve always been a diy runner, and have never used a coaching app apart from C25K and JogRunSprint on rare occasions, but Coach Bennett intrigues me and I might need to check him out! πŸ˜…

PurpleFish59
PurpleFish59Half Marathon in reply to cheekychipmunks

I’m undecided on the general coached runs with Coach Bennett, think I have to be in the right mood! But recently I did the NRC run with Lopez Lomong with Coach Bennett interviewing him and it was so inspiring. Think you just have to experiment and see what you like as there is loads of stuff on there!

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to cheekychipmunks

I didn't mention it in my post, but it is a lot easier to achieve neg splits using my watch! Actually I may have a go without looking at it, that would be a fun challenge 😊😊😊

Interested to hear how you get on with the Coach! xxx

cheekychipmunks
cheekychipmunksHalf Marathon in reply to roseabi

Think I’ll seek him next week for one of my runs. πŸ˜€

Blackberrypie
Blackberrypie10 Miles in reply to cheekychipmunks

I really like the ones where they invite a runner along to talk about their lives - so inspiring. Love the ones with Joan Benoit Samuelson particularly.

AndrewJR75
AndrewJR7510 Miles

Hi gang. Completed week 6 of HM plan today with an 8 mile run. It was hard going. I did most of the run in darkness and the ground alternated between icy and flooded. I ended up doing most of the run on the beach, which was quite nice.

I can’t even entertain the idea of negative splits at the moment, even though I can see the logic in it. I tend to average in the low 7mins per km. I may try and play around with pace once I get my first HM ticked off.

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to AndrewJR75

Wow that sounds like an interesting run!!

You do not need to increase your average speed to run negative splits, if that's what you're saying? However, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, they are certainly not the be-all-and-end-all! xxx

Run46
Run46Half Marathon

I've had months of low heart rate training which hasn't seen me run much further than 5K, as by then there's plenty of walking to keep my HR down and it starts to drive me bonkers. It's such a frustrating and slow process for someone who's HR max is around 200 and there hasn't been as much joy as usual so I decided to join the group regardless, turn off alerts, still pay attention on the shorter runs of the week if I'm not on a hill run but apart from that I'm afraid I've failed.

Now to my stop/start training...I've not done more than 9K yet as typically I've had a couple of virus' in the last month. Partly the weather, busy at work and maybe a shock to the system that I'm running without walking these days and at longer distances.

I know my body will adapt, I've done it before, it may just be mid to late spring before I get there πŸ‘

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Run46

I have yet to try low heart rate training, how were you doing it?

Run46
Run46Half Marathon in reply to roseabi

I set my max heart rate on my garmin to get more accurate zones then tried to stay in zone 3 on my runs, zone 2 was impossible for me unless I just walked.

I set an alert on my phone and if it went off I walked until I was a good few beats under before very slowly running again.

For me it was very slow going so in 3.5 months I've never been able to run a full 5k...it definitely improved so there were a few times I only walked a couple of times, or could manage a hill. Also I could often bring myself back into zone 3 by slowing down rather than walking, and I got a bit faster, but nowhere near my starting out times.

My problem is that after all this time though I could see progress I lost heart and just wasn't enthusiastic about my runs...if I had a busy day at work, a cold, or just randomly I could go out and end up walking after a few minutes. Yes the next run could be fine but for me I think I'd have had to persevere for months more before being able to run the lot or increase distance and I wanted to join the HM group and run more than 10 miles in a week.

Not to say I might not go back to it, or do some runs in zone 3 but ultimately I have run out of patience, for now I just want to go out and run πŸ‘

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Run46

I think that HR training simply is not for everyone, and also there are quite a few things other than effort that can affect your heart rate (stress, sleep quality, weather) and make it even more difficult to say in the target zones. How does your effort perception match up with your heart rate zones?

Far better, as you say, just to enjoy your runs xxx

misswobble
misswobbleMarathon

Buoyed up by your negative splits post I’ll attempt it on today’s run. I don’t usually make a conscious decision about splits - and don’t check post run. Mostly I suppose as I’m not bothered about stats but also maybe that indifference is because I always seem to have hills on the last leg of runs πŸ€”Food for thought πŸ’­ πŸ’­ πŸ˜‹

Anyway, today I’ll try and find a route with a downhill at the end. Had porridge πŸ₯£ will travel πŸƒβ€β™€οΈπŸƒβ€β™€οΈπŸƒβ€β™€οΈπŸƒβ€β™€οΈπŸƒβ€β™€οΈπŸƒβ€β™€οΈπŸƒβ€β™€οΈ It’s not raining either πŸ€—

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to misswobble

It's a fun thing to try! xxx

misswobble
misswobbleMarathon in reply to roseabi

Done and dusted! I achieved what I set out to do. Not by much but I hurried up for the final kilometre

So much for β€œnot raining”. Sleet the whole run πŸ™„

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to misswobble

Yuck! Well done xxx

misswobble
misswobbleMarathon in reply to roseabi

I’ve got to run today but waiting in for a parcel ☹️ C’mon c’mon, the sun’s out πŸ™„

Dexy5
Dexy510 Miles

Hello Roseabi and runners, I look forward to your interesting tips.

I don’t tend to have a negative split plan when I set out but I do know that my most successful and enjoyable runs have been when I start with slower running and then wind up as I go along, and I am always pleased to achieve them. That is why, on a windy day, I run into the wind first and then let it push me to the end.

I know I have the technology to pace each km, but I tend to ignore my watch apart from a glance at each km, and I just run and go by how my body is feeling.

UpTheStanley is a great pacemaker , so long as I set out what I want to achieve. I thought I was going for a leisurely 7k the other day but he was pacing me for a PB 7k. Result: a PB 3k Strava split , and ending with me Jeffing the final 2k! πŸ˜…

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Dexy5

Awesome! What will you do the next time UTS suggests a "leisurely run"? πŸ˜‚

Dexy5
Dexy510 Miles in reply to roseabi

Run in the opposite direction I think!

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Dexy5

🀣🀣🀣

linda9389
linda9389Administrator

I rarely manage negative splits and as you say that's not a problem. However I always try to start slow (having learned the hard way that it's the BEST way) and love to end with a sprint. More and more, as I've got to know my pace better, I do try to gradually pick it up over the first half of a run - not necessarily the recorded pace, but the effort I'm putting into my pace. There's still always a dip around two thirds or three quarters of the way through when I find I've zoned out 🀣. But if I manage that gradual build up then my second half is usually the stronger half and (from personal experience) that definitely feels better than crawling the last few kilometres.

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to linda9389

Gosh yes, zoning out can really slow things down πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ It's nice though!

Sounds really good xxx

Blackberrypie
Blackberrypie10 Miles in reply to linda9389

Quite a few of the NRC run club longer runs (pretty sure the 8 mile one is one of them) talk about the third quarter slump and generally throw in a few faster intervals to keep the focus going - might be worth a try (though I generally groan at him a bit).

linda9389
linda9389Administrator in reply to Blackberrypie

Interesting idea! πŸ‘

AndrewJR75
AndrewJR7510 Miles in reply to Blackberrypie

I can confirm he does on the 8 mile run! He asked me to increase to my β€œmile pace”. I decided to treat this as as a suggestion rather than compulsory πŸ˜‚

Blackberrypie
Blackberrypie10 Miles in reply to AndrewJR75

Yes, I think I did the same!

That sounds really useful, especially since I am learning to pace myself a bit better get faster by slowing down... 😁 I am not sure if this would work for everyone but it does work for me sometimes on long runs: during the first half I listen to a podcast (this is especially good if I don't really feel motivated to get outside, a fun show is a good distraction) and at halfway point I switch to music (got a curated playlist of songs that I know will hit the spot everytime, as I'm sure many of you have), it always seems to give me a boost and speed me up πŸŽ§πŸŽ΅πŸš€πŸ˜Š

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Lazyfrog

Great tip!!

Curlygurly2
Curlygurly2Half Marathon

Hello everybody! I'm still here, plodding away....I'm 8 weeks (half way) into my 16 week Heart Rate Zone HM plan, and finding it suddenly hard to get my HR up into Zone 4, and also hard to get any speed up...I asked people here and a few said they had had the same experience so I'm going to keep plugging away...

My plan was set back a couple of weeks by a particularly nasty fall, so is now expected to finish 21st March, that still gives me 10 days to run that HM for the Virtual Cambridge volunteer team event.

I got (what I think anyway) is a good entry

Wish me luck!deal as a previous volunteer, and hope to feel part of something as a team member.

Tomorrow my scheduled run is a 10K "race", I'm thinking there'll be no PBs for me, as I said my pace is very slow at the moment, but as long as it doesn't snow or be icy/slippy, I'll be happy to get round, it's been a long time since I've done that distance.

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Curlygurly2

All the best!! And for the run today, or have you finished it by now? xxx

Curlygurly2
Curlygurly2Half Marathon in reply to roseabi

Yes, I did it this morning. It was weird, I ran 10 K in 1:28 mins, when I run as slow as possible (zone 2) I cover 9.3 KM in 1:30... today I pushed as hard as I could...the HR training as reduced my top pace, I was never fast but now I've got no top end so to speak! Even my first ever 10K 6 years ago was faster than that!! I found it really hard, my legs hurt, I was knackered and starving, whereas after a long slow run I don't get any of that.

So - I reckon it's zone 2 slow EASY running for me from now on!

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Curlygurly2

Fair enough! Enjoy xxx

O505k
O505kHalf Marathon

Finished week one of HM training today with a 10k run. I’m following an NRC offline plan and today used the guided 10k run. Having read this post this morning I thought I would also try again for negative splits! Well every K was faster than the 1st K, 1st 3K went as planned a bit variable in the middle and the final K was the fastest. Overall enjoyed a the run.

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to O505k

Fabulous!!!! xxx

Blackberrypie
Blackberrypie10 Miles in reply to O505k

Great work.

SkiMonday
SkiMondayMetric Marathon

Hmm

Managed positive splits on my last run. Didn't help that I left it a bit late to refuel. Never had an issue with toxic 10 (or 20 or whatever) so I find I have to concentrate to keep my speed down at the start

Looking back, positive splits seem to be the norm for me! Maybe I should ease back a bit on the distance and try for negatives? I do find that my better runs happen when I start off slower. That's more likely to happen on days when I'm not really feeling so enthusiastic (hence, the worse I feel the faster my average pace).

Although I did do a 5k two weeks ago which turned out to have negative splits.

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to SkiMonday

It's funny, after I published this post I went for a 10k run, and I felt really great right from the start! I have been feeling the 'toxic 10' (or whatever time it is) quite strongly recently, so I hope this is a new trend 😊😊😊

Well, give it a try if you fancy it - a short flat route helps, as does a running watch!

Blackberrypie
Blackberrypie10 Miles in reply to SkiMonday

I do find I have to concentrate to go slowly enough at the start but it does pay back in time.

SkiMonday
SkiMondayMetric Marathon in reply to Blackberrypie

I guess some sort of pace control is an essential part of endurance running.

Think I'll give it a try on some 5k runs first.

I managed to sneak some running into a family bike ride yesterday by locking up my bike so I could run alongside when we took the 6 year old off the trail bar to cycle on his own - had a real fartlek session keeping up with him, particularly when he tried to race me! There was a point when he said "Mummy you're going very fast" to which I panted "yes I know!"

I have managed 18.7k so far this week and I'm planning another run tonight, so I am hoping I can make it to 30k for the week, which wouldn't be too far below pre-lockdown levels.

Blackberrypie
Blackberrypie10 Miles in reply to Blackberrypie

And 30k done this week - including 15 miles over the last 3 days. I managed my second fastest 10k time tonight. My PR is 3 minutes faster but that was in daylight, on a very flat course and a really hard effort; tonight's dark, hillier version felt so much easier by comparison, and I ran an extra 1.5k and could have done more. Good to know I'm still getting fitter despite all the limitations.

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Blackberrypie

Awesome

UpTheStanley
UpTheStanleyHalf Marathon

I'm always very happy if a run, especially an actual race, ends up with a negative split as it likely means I judged the pace right from the start. But when I'm working on improvement, my aim is usually to go a little bit further each week at the pace I've set as my target for the distance concerned, so I'm pushing from the start which means the splits tend to be positive. So when I was aiming to get my 10k time down to 50 mins (which I thought for a while last year might be possible πŸ™„), I would probably start off around 4'50" pace to get a bit in hand, drop back to 5'00" and wind up using up the "bit in hand" as I struggled to the day's target distance of (say) 7.5k. And if I succeeded, try for 8k next week. Theoretically steady 5'00"s would be better, but my body and brain don't seem to work that way .....

Pacing Dexy5 is much more fun 😍

linda9389
linda9389Administrator in reply to UpTheStanley

I remember reading an article that insisted there was no such thing as 'time in the bank' - I read it after a bad race where I went out too fast and ended up ragged and miserable, so it has always stuck with me. The gist was that it takes more out of you than you get to bank; a steady pace or a steadily increasing pace would always be more effective/efficient. I daresay there are counter articles, but it's always stuck with me because at the time I was an undeniable case in point πŸ˜‚

UpTheStanley
UpTheStanleyHalf Marathon in reply to linda9389

I’m sure that’s absolutely right - but it’s pure adrenaline - maybe πŸ˜€

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to UpTheStanley

I'm definitely with you for the "bit in hand" idea too! I do think that there would have been no way I could have achieved my best marathon times without starting out faster when I was fresh. But I now wonder if working on negative splits at shorter distances in training might have helped me to keep a little bit of a faster pace later on. That and not having a shoe problem, or a leg problem, etc. πŸ˜‚

linda9389
linda9389Administrator in reply to roseabi

I think the bit in hand helps hugely mentally, but is maybe not best not achieved by a fast first spilt! I now try to plan with a slow start, inevitably I go faster than planned so am ahead of schedule - but not by being way too fast, just faster than slow .... if that makes any sense at all πŸ€ͺ Mentally , a bit in hand is hugely powerful.

I’m a bit confused about positive splits, you say that a negative split is running the second part of the race faster than the first but then you say to achieve a positive split you start off slowly; so what’s the difference?

I often seem to run my first K the fastest and then the rest of the run roughly the same pace and then slow at the end as fatigue kicks in.

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Dodgylungs

Ah, you are the only one to spot my typo! Sorry about that, have amended it! πŸ˜‚

Now reads: "My simple way to achieve negative splits is to start off slowly"

Dodgylungs
Dodgylungs in reply to roseabi

Ah I see! So a positive split is starting off fast?

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to Dodgylungs

Well yes, it can be. A positive split is where you run the first half of the run faster than the second half, and starting off TOO fast for your current fitness may result in running positive splits because you tire yourself out. But if you start off fast and get faster you can still produce a negative split.

There are other reasons for running positive splits, for example if the second half of the run is uphill. Or, as UpTheStanley comments, if you want to get a fast time you might really push yourself at the start of the run when you are fresh. Both of these rely on knowing you are fit enough to keep up enough speed to achieve your goal.

Dodgylungs
Dodgylungs in reply to roseabi

Got it, thanks!

Oops I totally missed this post but found it now almost a week late

!Having only run just over 3k in the last 12 days I’m feeling a bit like an imposter in this group πŸ™„

Having read the post and all the interesting comments I thought I'd go back and actually look at the times on Garmin for my runs before Xmas. It seems I’m consistent about being inconsistent πŸ˜‚, the only thing I see as a slight trend is that in general on the longer runs I seem to be slower in the middle. But surely so much must depend on the route and conditions under foot ? I do see the logic behind the idea but I’m not that bothered about the time, especially at the moment I just want to enjoy being able to run and build my distance back up.

I also can imagine that if I'm still running in a few years 🀞 time my ideas could have changed completely and I'll be checking my negative splits after every run

I saw someone had mentioned HR training, I set up training zones on my watch and have used them consistently, they helped me slow down and get up hills, but more importantly also got me away from the idea of being time focused which was rather spoiling my enjoyment of running. I’m sure that they aren’t that accurate as from what I’ve read the only true way to find your max HR is to nearly die on a treadmill in a lab πŸ˜• But it works for me and that is all that really matters after all.

Have fun everyone

roseabi
roseabiAdministrator in reply to dijep

Never an imposter!

The pattern of being slower in the middle of a run is very common, and in many ways is just what you need! And yes, it depends upon the route, terrain, and also the weather! The best way to train with negative splits is to pick a nice flat route and a calm day, and also to monitor your pace as you go.

So it's not for everyone, and that's fine!! Your HR monitor is accurate enough for YOU - it will still produce a trend over time. So no worries 😊😊😊

Enjoy your runs xxx

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