After crashing and burning 12 miles into my 18 mile run last Monday I was confident that I could complete my 15 mile training run today. I'd raced 10k and got a huge PB last Sunday and thought that was the cause of my struggles last week but no - got to 11 miles today and although not as bad as last week had to do a huge amount of walking to complete my run ☹️
I'm pretty sure I'm running slowly enough as I can chat away to my running buddies and feel very comfortable up to about 10 miles or so.
I'm wondering if it's partly to do with fuelling?? I'm very small and whilst I've completed half marathon distance twice without fuel (once even without water) I know I'm going to need to sort it out to complete a full marathon. I got very light headed today even though I'd had a bite of a peanut chocolate chip brownie bar at 5 miles and 10 miles. My friend gave me a dextrose tablet at about 13 miles but I think it might have been a bit late by then! I really don't fancy gels so am looking at maybe dextrose tablets or shot bloks for fuelling - has anyone here had any success in using them?
Also my legs/back/hips start to hurt so much towards the end of HM distance! I can still walk but running for any length of time however slowly becomes almost impossible. Any ideas why this might be? I'm worried I will end up walking huge amounts of the second half of my marathon because of it x
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pianoteacher
Marathon
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That's a good run for you pianoteacher, I am just wondering where you do those long runs, is it around a park 20 or so times, along a canal bank, trails or just through streets?, I think running on roads would be a bit dangerous, canal would be OK as it's mainly flat, running around a park, safe but a bit monotonous after a while. 😊 🏃
It was a big loop today Al - started cross country and very uphill, then over to a cycle path through to the next door town, then back along the seafront. A nice safe and varied route x
Fuelling is tricky, you have to get it in before you notice you need or it's too late. I used to be really bad on the bike, never wanted to eat and I paid for it. I've learned my lesson now and I use a carb drink plus tasty snacks every 5 to 6 miles. I think of them a rewards so it feels like less of a chore.
Try some glute strengthening exercises to see if that helps the hips/ lower back otherwise see a sports bod 👍🏻
You did it though, you got through!
Meant to say, I favour oat based snacks, graze bites are good or frusili bars, or stuff like nakd bars, not too much sugar so it gives fuel for longer.
I thought I'd started early enough today at 5 miles (didn't have anything until around 11 last week) but I still felt very faint later on. Mind you it was boiling hot so maybe that didn't help??
One of my running buddies mentioned glutes as a possible cause of the pain. I used to have a very good posterior chain as I did a lot of kettlebells but I've let all that slip a bit with all the running I've been doing. I do run a lot because I love the social running I do with my club (and parkrun!) but maybe I need to get back to cross training a bit more xx
My "secret weapons are Fruit Pastilles. One every mile
And for the HM on Saturday because it was hot and windy, I ate an icecream bar (Magnum Almond Chocolate) half an hour before the start.
Mind you, I barely finished - my legs were DONE at the end and my far more experienced and educated friends were indeed telling me I should read up a bit about "proper running nutrition" Apparently, once over ten miles you are in a different territory altogether.
Tailwind and naked bars. I just start sipping the Tailwind when I start running, then a bite of bar every 5k. The other factor may be your pace. I notice on Strava that you run pretty fast. Maybe try slowing down to an easier speed and see if it makes a difference xx
Lots of positive mentions for Tailwind but I can't run carrying a bottle (I feel unbalanced and find it really tiring) and unfortunately can't afford any more kit at the moment ☹️
Pretty sure my pace is about right as it's nearly a minute and a half per km outside my 5k pace on the flat and even slower uphill. Breathing and cardio wise I feel like I could run all day until my legs etc start to ache - the faintness seems to come when I'm walking rather than running!?
Will give naked bars a go as although I haven't eaten them on runs I do like them xx
I have taken a bottle on some of the longer runs I did in the summer but I underestimated the heat today! Did buy a bottle at about 7 miles but I really was sweating a lot so you're probably right! Need to invest in a bladder if I'm ever going to attempt a marathon again x
You can pick up a really cheap one on ebay for less than a tenner, not great long term but please find a way to keep fluids with you for runs over an hour! 🙈
Sorry to thread hijack, but I was really interested in needing to take fluids for a run of over an hour. I'm up to 2hrs 45ish for my long runs now, and currently not taking food or water with me, any links to good articles about this?
Every individual is different. I've always gone by the mentors here saying nothing really needed up to an hour. I'll carry some (250 ml or so) for an hour or up but I don't use much unless it's hot. It's just there if I get a dry mouth, swallow a bug or have a coughing fit.
I absolutely would not set out for a 2hr+ session with no fluids or snacks for that matter. I am a heavy sweater; I take 500ml per hour I expect to be out up to a max of 3l which is my max carrying capacity and tablets so I can refill if I need to.
My last marathon distance was 5.5 hrs on the hottest day of the year, I consumed almost 4l.
If you're happy, then go with what you know but I know for me, for best performance and easy recovery, fluid and fuel need to be constant.
Here's an article highlight
"Current guidelines recommend drinking anything from 300ml to 800ml of fluids per hour when you're exercising"
The faintness used to come to me when walking too and go again if i ran. i put it down to hr coming down from active to resting (there is a huge difference for me between the two).
Are you sure you can't carry a very small bottle. I have one that belongs with a flipbelt and it weighs nothing and slips into my hand. Just enough to get me round 10k on a hot day. Small running bottles are very cheap.
From what I have read (and my experience) the key to proper fuelling on long runs is to start early, before you even start to feel the need. I tried lots of different things whilst in training for my HM, and for me Tailwind (a carb and electrolyte powder to mix with water) worked best, as it sat well on my stomach and was easy to sip on the go. I start sipping from 5k on the HM distance, and then continued to drink throughout. I did my HM yesterday, and ended the race feeling like I could have carried on for longer I had so much energy! (But have a dodgy knee, so that would not have been wise!) You should try out a few things, as it is all so individual.
PS as for the aching bits, hard to advise as not sure what is causing what! Sometimes lower back ache means you need to strengthen core, sometimes it is lack of power in glutes, sometimes it is everything! It is all so interconnected!
Anecdotally, I used to suffer with sore hips during long runs with occasional sore lower back. My physio gave me hip hikes to strengthen my hips, and my sports masseuse (god I am high maintenance!) taught me to stretch my hip flexors properly. Like magic, these two things worked, and my hips no longer hurt on long runs!
Note that you need to tilt the bottom of your pelvis forward before starting the stretch. I deepen the stretch by raising the arm on the side the knee is on the floor, and lean over to the opposing side, gently. Hold for 30 seconds. Just keep it nice and gentle!
You sound like I felt on sat in my long run. I wonder if a reset week may help you? I am testing it this week with shorter distances and slower pace to see if it helps on the long runs. Then back on the plan next week. It's worked in the past on HM distances, but never tested on anything past 30k. Fueling is tricky as Jo says, everyone is different, but forecasting what you'll need before you feel it is hard too. Jo's idea of treating it as a reward system sort of works for my brain too, as long as you've brought good snacks along
I have been doing quite a lot Decker - 37 miles last week which is a lot for me! I don't have a plan as such (luckily my marathon has a 9 hour cut off 🤣) but I can definitely cut back some running - sort of hoping that tapering will help me recover pre event! x
Eat early enough 🙂. I start to eat at about 10k I make my own bars and take some Haribo's with me I use zero high five in my bottle , or Tailwind for longer runs Hula hoops for really long runs 😋. Keep yourself fed and watered so you don’t weaken 🙂
Hi PT - I use Shot Bloks and prefer them to gels, although I do get a bit fed up with them, so also had a mini soreen on my long run on Saturday. I completed my longest run on the plan (22miles) and used Bloks, a Soreen and then a Revvie for a caffiene boost that got me through the last 6 miles. Make sure you hydrate and fuel well the day before the run also. Good luck.
Well worth giving fuel of some kind (or if you're me lately, of all kinds! At once 😄) a go. My GNR was fuel free, and I did it... but it was tough. I felt sick at the end. The Great Scottish Run three weeks later involved a snack and a gel, was twenty minutes faster, and I loved every second of it. Totally anecdotal, and there were far more factors at work than just fuel, but it completely changed my stubborn mind! It's nice to finish a long or hard run feeling strong, and that's what a wee bit of a fuelling strategy gives me. It also gives me something to break up my run, and a bit of a psychological boost too!
Most people hate gels-myself included-but what I hate more is having stuff in my pockets during an event. So I endure them. They're quick and easy and do the job, along with a bottle of Tailwind or Active Root. On an adventure run when I'm training I'll be more likely to take a flapjack with me, along with something soluble in a bottle. One time I took some tea to have with the flapjack, that was quite fun. I stopped on top of a hill and had a tiny picnic. And sometimes on the way home I pop into Greggs for a pasty, but that's more fuelling to get me off the sofa later on in the day.
Anyway, my point is, why not give it a go! Have fun, experiment, take a look at what other people do and see what works and what doesn't for you. It's all part of your personal, tailor-made running experience 😁 Also, it's frankly an excellent excuse for jelly babies or flapjacks. They're not treats, they're FUEL. 👌
I had totally underestimated how much thought, trial and error needs to go into a marathon - I think mainly because of the nature of the event I'm doing. At the beginning I really thought I could just rock up drink the drinks and eat the food which is provided on route and be able to make it round. I'm realising now that while I probably would get round it might be a very slow and uncomfortable experience.
My running buddy has done the event before and doesn't take anything with her but whilst I'm faster than her over 5 and 10k her endurance is incredible!
Need to get on with my experimenting - also known as eating all the foods 😂
Marathon is all about careful planning and even with that and long training l failed to run it all the way and had to run/walk the last 7 or so kilometres. Hence l can't say 'l ran the marathon.' Instead l can only boast that I've covered its distance instead. 😀
In terms of fueling, l only used Tailwind and no solids throughout, and that aspect worked fine. I hit some dark times mentally and physically around 35k mark when the whole thing became a bit of an ordeal, but hey, that's how we learn for the next time.
Remember, no experiments on the day. You eat or drink what you've eaten or drunk for months during your training, your body doesn't need surprises on that level. Find out what works and stick with it. Also, whole marathon is very (very) different to HM, don't approach and treat it the same way. Good luck!
Thanks mrrun! My marathon (Beachy Head) is all about covering the distance - it's insanely hilly and very few people run it all. I feel that because of that I haven't really given it the respect it deserves.
I'm pretty fit but I'm realising now that 26 miles is a hell of a lot of ground to cover even if you're not running the whole thing!
I seem to have conveniently forgotten that after the first time I ran HM distance I said I couldn't have walked another km - don't think I'll be entering another full marathon anytime soon 😕
Even in my limited experience, I'm sure not drinking enough will be a good part of the lifht headedness. I like tailwind too and ised a bladder on the longer training runs. In races though, i didn't want to take the bladder so carried cliff shot bloks to take before each of the water stations - you do need to take water with those though, they're not designed to be taken without. Good luck. I'm sure you just need to experiment a bit and you'll soon be there 🙂
Thank you Linda! I didn't realise that about the shot bloks - I'm intending to stop at all the water stations so I'll just have to have a proper look at where they are and do a bit of pre-planning x
I have no advice to offer. Where you are going is further than I myself have gone. I am very intriuged by the issues you are facing though. I believe I do have a marathon in me one day, but some of the concerns I have are in line with the issue you are facing, and that is of fuelling.
I have never done it myself. However, I see people fuelling on HMs. I even see discussions on here for fuelling on 10k runs. But the idea of needing to carry and deal with all that puts me right off. There are so many options and ideas about how and when to fuel, etc. that makes it all very confusing.
I've no doubt though, that you will overcome your issues and find a solution that works for you. All part of the challenege I guess.
To be honest I can't see myself attempting another one. For one thing the long runs are very time consuming unless you're fast. Took me just over 3 hours to do the 15 miles yesterday and as I ideally need to do 2 hours of clarinet each day on top of work that's just too much. Having said that it's definitely worth having a go - it's proved very insightful and a huge learning curve.
My preferred distance is definitely 10k and as my primary interest has always been speed I think I'll stick to gearing my running towards improving my times over that x
Marie try Tailwind. My friend hates most fuel but this works for her. We like m and s Colin caterpillars too. You need to fuel every 3-4 miles or so. I also hate carrying a bottle but you need to hydrate. I love my hydration vest. Lots at club have this
Thanks Tasha! I've seen a couple of people at my club have those. Someone's lent me an ordinary running backpack to try out so I've got somewhere to put food - I like the sound of Colin Caterpillars 🤣
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First run at HM distance!
Weight gain with long distance training:
First HM distance! ☀️🙌🏼🎉
